about time

[Ch3tan]

I hope this actually get's passed, most common sense thing ever.

BBC News - Long-term jobless 'could face compulsory manual labour'

 

[BloodOmen]

it actually does sound sensible tbh we get some cleaner streets and they get to sit on their arse and get money, fair trade tbh.

seconded for wanting it passed although i'm curious how they will force people on the sick to do this (the really sick people that is not the chavs that claim they cant walk etc) my sister is on the sick atm very long term because of a muscle disease shes been diagnosed with, they literally cannot force someone in her position to do it it'd be rather inhumane.

 

[Raven]

The Tories have upset one half of the Labour voting public by hammering the wasteful public services, now to upset the other half

About bloody time.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I did chuckle reading that. It will be interesting to see how it progresses.

 

[- English -]

i love them.

long live the tories!

 

[Lollie]

its a great idea, wont be long before some jeremy kyle shitbag claims breach of humans rights and wins tho

 

[Olgaline]

We've had a system like that for years in DK, and to be frank it dosent make much of a difference in getting people away from welfare.
often the argued "up side" is that people are "kept" active in the work force so that they dont fall into unhealthy patterns....
yet often, the down side is that people are "kept" active, and thus time is taken away from job searching and some are led into a falls sence of having an actual job.

So to sum it up, here in Denmark you can basicly devide it up as such;

Into the people who actually do an active part in trying to find new jobs and are generally dissatisfied with beeing on welfare,
for these people it's a huge waste of time and energy, and often people end up beeing on welfare for a longer period than they had hoped becuase of it.

And secondly you have the...well lets call them "no good lazy bums" so ok these are made to work and thus are pulled away from unhealthy habbits
of not beeing active contributers and are in all sences of the issue a drain on societies that work on the concept of solidarity.

But more than anything, and most importantly! This system works to make tax payers feel better about having to pay taxes to support others on welfare,
because at least then, they "the people on welfare" dont get it for "free".......

What's even worse, at least here in DK are the "jobs" and "schooling" that these poeple are put through. and some repeatedly.
I for example know a guy who was denied time off for a work interview because he was scheduled to attenda course in work applications that day.
turns out, that the region, gets a larger "refund" from the state, if they can activate the person on welfare through the "system"
rather than if they manage to do so on there own, thus he was threatend with a stop in welfare payments, if he refused to participate.
Fortunatly this chap is no wuss, so he went to the interview and to this day has the same job. "just one little story"

 

[ford prefect]

He is due to outline plans for four-week placements doing jobs like gardening and litter clearing.

And what about the people who get paid to do those jobs already? DO they join the jobless masses and get forced to do what they previously did for a living for free?

 

[old.Tohtori]

So england is going for forced labour hmm?

Hope there's no color code thing in there, could be difficult.

Love that saying, so bloody british; ""Play ball or it's going to be difficult."

How about "Accept or there could be light hinderance." or other such firm threat

They should outright say it; "Do what we decide or starve to death".

 

[Raven]

Exactly, I have to work for a living, I don't see why everyone shouldn't. (assuming they are capable ofc)

Viva la revolution!

Have you seen the state of towns/cities? They are an absolute dump, forcing people to clean it can only be a good thing, the people currently employed to are overstretched.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Because there's not enough work for everyone, ergo people are unemployed.

The whole, unemployed thing and all.

Are they seriously going to force every single one out there, removing other peoples jobs to do so, put a guy on every lampost to wipe it clean 30h/week...or let them die?

You'd ALL be fine, if you fell unemployed for one reason or other(bad economy for example), to be forced to clean toilets for tablescratch money? No complaint, hop to it as it's burrrr honest work?

 

[Raven]

There is plenty of work, people are just not willing to do it. They would rather sit on their arses moaning about "the bloody foreigners taking our jobs"

You are missing the point anyway. It is saying if they do not actively seek work then they will have to carry out work given to them, this will not affect those genuinely looking for work as much as those who sit around all day playing xbox.

 

[Turamber]

No doubt Labour were too weak in this area, and too 'politically correct'. However the Conservatives are not known for being in touch with the regular Joe in the street. Heck Mrs Cameron is a viscountess, hardly 'down with the people' now is it?

 

[old.Tohtori]

There is plenty of work, people are just not willing to do it. They would rather sit on their arses moaning about "the bloody foreigners taking our jobs"

That's such a bullcrap generalisation.

Let's just call it what it really is;

Government owned slavery.

They can drop a lot of people from government paylist, get it done for free by these "freeloaders" because they have to(if they want some luxuries like -food-).

It's a bad idea.

 

[Raven]

That's such a bullcrap generalisation.

No, it isn't. The local paper is full of jobs every week, so is the job centre window, employment agencies windows etc etc They are just not jobs that people particularly want to do. People these days expect big wages working in a nice office when in reality they are only qualified to stack shelves or clean toilets. Its a problem that has arisen over the last 20 years, people being told they are better than they are and that they can achieve anything, when in reality they can't.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No, it isn't. The local paper is full of jobs every week, so is the job centre window, employment agencies windows etc etc They are just not jobs that people particularly want to do. People these days expect big wages working in a nice office when in reality they are only qualified to stack shelves or clean toilets. Its a problem that has arisen over the last 20 years, people being told they are better than they are and that they can achieve anything, when in reality they can't.

Yes it is, when you call every unemployed person a lazy bum(if they don't have disability), yu're making a generalisation that isn't true.

You're basing it on some convinient excuse about big wages too, with a dab of "i'm better then these bums" to make you feel fluffy.

Just the same problem these legislators have; it's easy to toss judgement from the back of a merc, but would they get on their knees to scrub a toilet if they fell unemployed? Hah.

 

[Olgaline]

This is one area where I find my self to be somewhat in agreement with Toht.

Example; I know a girl who has by now been out of the job for 4 mounths, she writes about
2-4 applications pr. week, she's been to countless interviews, yet still no job, generally she's met with
"your not what we'r looking for" and yes she isnt a looker, yet she takes good care of her self.
now she's had work for years as a kindergarten teacher. she's active and outgoing.
yet she's beeing forced to attend stupid corses and made to do utter mind numbing work from 09:00-17:00..
time she could have used far more efficiently!

I'm all for the idea of force work on those who have been out of the Job for a Long! period,
and are able to work...that means arent worn down or otherwise ill in some way.

Yet I still only ever see this as a law thats aimed to satisfy tax payers, far more than beeing designed to actually help
those who may need it most, and thats why I generally very much find laws like these distastefull and yet another turn towards
more self centered ideals in europe in general.

 

[ford prefect]

Look, on the surface this is fine, but this is a tory government, and what we are talking about here is replacing paid working staff working for local authorities with people who are on Job Seekers. There is never a circumstance whereby it is a good thing to replace paid staff with volunteers (and in this case I use that term loosely).

 

[Raven]

Yes it is, when you call every unemployed person a lazy bum(if they don't have disability), yu're making a generalisation that isn't true.

You're basing it on some convinient excuse about big wages too, with a dab of "i'm better then these bums" to make you feel fluffy.

Just the same problem these legislators have; it's easy to toss judgement from the back of a merc, but would they get on their knees to scrub a toilet if they fell unemployed? Hah.

Um...I didn't call every unemployed person a bum...

 

[Ch3tan]

Toht, you really have no grip on this, you don't live here, you don't understand the issue - let it go.

Ford, yes, I do see how this fits in their "Big Society" stuff, it's free labour to counter cuts to local council budgets. However, a stick like this is needed for the worse case long term unemployed and those who live off the state - not those who are honestly looking for work and actively doing the courses etc the job centre requires of them. Where this will live or die is on how well they do at recognising who is taking the piss and who isn't.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Toht, you really have no grip on this, you don't live here, you don't understand the issue - let it go.

Err, no. Your country isn't that different and you ain't anything special.

Stop using moronic excuses like that when you can't discuss sh*t.

Where this will live or die is on how well they do at recognising who is taking the piss and who isn't.

I'd like anyone here to come up with a system that works on these numbers. It needs automation, it needs over-stretched workers(unless they put unemployed to shift through the unemployed ), and all in all, same system as now. Only difference would be that this time they have even MORE reasons to cut people off from whatever little help they recieve.

You crackdown on bums and scroungers, you WILL punish the honest people.

Um...I didn't call every unemployed person a bum...

Um...yeah you did.

There is plenty of work, people are just not willing to do it. They would rather sit on their arses moaning about "the bloody foreigners taking our jobs"

 

[Ormorof]

No, it isn't. The local paper is full of jobs every week, so is the job centre window, employment agencies windows etc etc They are just not jobs that people particularly want to do. People these days expect big wages working in a nice office when in reality they are only qualified to stack shelves or clean toilets. Its a problem that has arisen over the last 20 years, people being told they are better than they are and that they can achieve anything, when in reality they can't.

it may be full of jobs but what if they are not hiring? i worked in recruitment and some of the demands made by companies for candidates were frankly absurd, meaning while they interviewed lots of people, no one was hired

(the main job that had this problem was a research company, they wanted someone who lived in central london close to their labs, had at LEAST a masters degree in physics, maths or aeronautical engineering, AND 8 years experience in a relevant field, but they were only willing to pay 22k a year hah, in their dreams)

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah seems a lot of people have the misnotion that every job is available to everyone

 

[Raven]

Err, no. Your country isn't that different and you ain't anything special.

Stop using moronic excuses like that when you can't discuss sh*t.



I'd like anyone here to come up with a system that works on these numbers. It needs automation, it needs over-stretched workers(unless they put unemployed to shift through the unemployed ), and all in all, same system as now. Only difference would be that this time they have even MORE reasons to cut people off from whatever little help they recieve.

You crackdown on bums and scroungers, you WILL punish the honest people.



Um...yeah you did.

No, I didn't. Learn to read. I said "people" not "all people"

 

[old.Tohtori]

No, I didn't. Learn to read. I said "people" not "all people"

Yeah, how cute.

 

[Influenza]

Ive been unemployed for nearly 2 years now , i recently completed a course where i had to work for 13 weeks for dole money. I was delivering beer as 2nd man on a wagon and i actually enjoyed it , the guy i was working with was a good laugh and he told me he used to have to do the job himself.

The only bad bit was , there was supposed to be the chance of a job at the end of it but they said oh we dont want you etc.... then replaced me with another guy working 13 weeks for free.

Id happily do 4 weeks of free work aslong as it isnt shoveling up dog shit or cleaning public toilets , i pick up my own dogs mess and im not gonna pick up other peoples.

I dont really know how they will check wether you are trying hard enough to find a job , the past 4 weeks ive sent off 9 applications and about 35-40 spec letters and ive got 2 replies. When i tell the people in the job centre that they look at you as if you're lying.

 

[ilaya]

there are 2.6 million unemployed in UK atm. there are 450,000 vancancies, of which only 200,000 are full time. most for the full time vacancies are taken by people switching jobs, not gaining new employment.

tories are looking to take 1.5 million off sickness and lay off a further 1.6 million over four years..

now.. add those figures up...

all these things and courses to find jobs do are... take people off the unemployment figures so they got bragging rights over the opposition party. its basically a figures swindle.

when you go onto one of these courses, you get travelling expenses and nothing else.. no lunch money or anything, no allowances for clothing. you are worse off.

and as someone previously said.. the companies taking part in these schemes dont give jobs at end, they just get the next victim who is lined up for cheap labour.

btw this wont pass, there are all sorts of EU laws and regulations preventing this.

 

[Ctuchik]

seconded for wanting it passed although i'm curious how they will force people on the sick to do this (the really sick people that is not the chavs that claim they cant walk etc)

probably as easy as they do it here in sweden.

here ppl with ~6 months left to live due to cancer gets ordered to get back on the lists for a new job. and to make it happen the social insurance office just stop paying them.

 

[Punishment]

there are 2.6 million unemployed in UK atm. there are 450,000 vancancies, of which only 200,000 are full time. most for the full time vacancies are taken by people switching jobs, not gaining new employment.

tories are looking to take 1.5 million off sickness and lay off a further 1.6 million over four years..

now.. add those figures up...

all these things and courses to find jobs do are... take people off the unemployment figures so they got bragging rights over the opposition party. its basically a figures swindle.

when you go onto one of these courses, you get travelling expenses and nothing else.. no lunch money or anything, no allowances for clothing. you are worse off.

and as someone previously said.. the companies taking part in these schemes dont give jobs at end, they just get the next victim who is lined up for cheap labour.

btw this wont pass, there are all sorts of EU laws and regulations preventing this.

 

[Marc]

Id just like to point out, that the figure of 1.6m quoted above, that im assuming is mostly to do with cuts in the public sector, well these will mostly if not all, be through natural wastage. A point that everyone seems to miss.