A Theory About Pop Music

[Louster]

Watching older pop videos made me realise that, for example, the majority of the successful pop artists in the 80s were adults. This is in major contrast to contemporary pop which is entirely inhabited by teenagers, or not-long-past teenagers. So in other words, it seems that pop music reflects that section of the population with the most spending power - which is a pretty obvious link, if you think about it.

I don't know about most people, but I much prefer the pop music of yesteryear to that of now. Each time periods naturally has its share of awfulness, but I can name a ton of 'pop' tunes from the 80s and 90s that I love, compared to basically none now. All the contemporary music I listen to now is by definition nowhere near 'pop', just because nothing interesting could possibly be successful in today's climate.

Basically, if we want to return to a more melodic, blues/rock-influenced pop, we need to ensure that we don't give any of our money to our kids. Ever. We buy our family's music and they listen to it. PERIOD.


This was triggered by this video by the way. Which was itself triggered by a vague memory of this, tee hee. This last video also demonstrates the sense of silliness that often accompanied the cheese back then, I think, which doesn't seem to happen any more - now it's all just pure cheese.

 

[Chilly]

I dont think theres such a thing as bad music. Sure, some bits of music are crap, but they just inspire a new generation of artists to beat it. I'm glad we have a million and one genres available to choose from in HMV or eyetunes because it's impossible to get bored.

 

[old.user4556]

Don't agree with you Louster.

I think your views of how old people were when they did those tracks in the 80s is distorted. I'm not sure that artists in the 80's were necessarily "adults", and indeed some of them were not past their teens either (Tiffany anyone? Debbie Gibson?)

Take the human league, Phil was what.. late twenties but the birds must have been around 20 years old in the early eighties. Same with Michael Jackson, who was in essence a "Lil Chris" back in the 70's and 24 when Thriller came out. Gary Numan was 21 when 'Cars' was released. A-Ha were all early to mid twenties too, about ages with bubblegum crap like Britney, Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey. Another 80s pop track that sticks out is Toy Soldiers by Martika, she was 20 when that was released.

I recall clearly as a child in the mid-eighties, my older sisters playing Madonna over and over and over again, and my dad complaining about that "bubblegum crap" they listened to and how Madonna was gonna vanish with the rest of them. My sisters were about 10 at the time IIRC. Madonna has done ok, and infact when I go back and listen to some of her early stuff, some of it is very cleverly crafted pop music with addictive melodies.

Indeed where I live, there is a country wide popular club that plays non-stop indie and rock music; and I mean a whole spectrum of stuff from Rainbow, to Led Zep, to The Kooks and Muse, to Rammstein and Metallica - it's very popular with the late teenage / early twenty crowd. It would sort of suggest that even "that generation" are sick and tired of the crap pop that is out there just now. If you take a look on their bebo pages, i'm sure you'll find that their more akin to modern rock/indie than today's spice girl equivalent.

Anyway, my 2p on the situ.

I think you're just old louster .

 

[DaGaffer]

I remember that a hell of a lot of music was widely derided in the 80s as bubblegum crap only fit for teenage girls (Stock, Aitken and Waterman anyone?). It may have been made by slightly older people, but the eighties was where the rot set in. The music industry just took it to the next logical level; you sell more records to prepubescent and teenage girls if you market it with people they identify with, hence the trend towards boy bands etc. The reality is that there was good music then, and there's good music now, you just have to look for it.

The one big difference is that there hasn't been a real music 'movement' since rave culture started in the late eighties, and that's a real shame because I don't think kids today have anything they can call their own, just recycled variations of stuff that's gone before.

 

[Opt1]

Indeed where I live, there is a country wide popular club that plays non-stop indie and rock music; and I mean a whole spectrum of stuff from Rainbow, to Led Zep, to The Kooks and Muse, to Rammstein and Metallica - it's very popular with the late teenage / early twenty crowd. It would sort of suggest that even "that generation" are sick and tired of the crap pop that is out there just now.

I'm 20, and I wish there were places like this where I am :x

Although, tbh, I'm tired of all the indy crap these days too.. some is good but so much just sounds the same.

But yes, many people (like myself) I know are sick of all the crap pop that's out there now.. I have been since I was 12/13

 

[Louster]

The thing is, I can think of tons of great songs from that era - that charted/sold very well - quite a few from the nineties, and basically none now. Almost all the good music now seems to be totally sidelined; the mainstream is basically a stream of shit.

Maybe they just looked older back then.

 

[00dave]

The one big difference is that there hasn't been a real music 'movement' since rave culture started in the late eighties, and that's a real shame because I don't think kids today have anything they can call their own, just recycled variations of stuff that's gone before.

They had garage for a while but as soon as it hit mainstream it was corrupted into something completly different almost instantly and adopted by those that we now call chavs.

I also believe the shit on the radio these days is down to the lazyness of some artists. How many times have you bought and album recently on the strength of one or two songs you've heard on he radio only to find the rest of the album full of blatant filler material that could have been written the night before they went into the studio. They blame illegal downloads and piracy but how many albums have you got pre 2000 that you can honestly say was value for money compared to the past 7 years. My faith was restored by the editors an end has a start not long ago but I don't know how much longer it can last.

 

[Kryten]

My head's firmly in the 80's atm. Although dance/trance remains my first love, my huge respect for some of these "proper" artists who actually made original music means I've a large collection of 80's stuff - certainly Queen, Phil Collins and Genesis and a slightly annoying collection of Bonnie Tyler

Also funny to see that even to this day, with the exception of the jacksons, madonnas and kylies, the UK still seems to have the largest world influence in music. It's certainly evident that selection is done by an American


Oh, and thanks to this thread and that set of videos, for some reason I've found fit to reinstall GTA Vice City.

 

[DaGaffer]

Didn't really see Garage as something wholly new; just an extension of house which is just one of a million fragments of the original dance scene from the late eighties/early nineties. When House music first appeared it was something completely divorced from what people were into before; I was a typical indie kid, moaning about all the SAW shit in the charts and how The Smiths were over and music was dead, then I went to Uni in Manchester at exactly the right time and discovered the Hacienda and The Happy Mondays. No-one gets that kind of thing anymore, even Ibiza has been old hat for years.

 

[mank!]

there is no new music, which is why you have to look back.

calypso 4 lyf

 

[throdgrain]

Its funny, Ive always regarded the eighties as an absolute wasteland for music, very early times excepted. Certainly the pop stuff was aweful, Stock Aitken bollocks bloody Kylie Minogue.

When I stop to consider it Id say the seventies were argueably the best years for music, you had punk at the end of it, and Led Zep and suchlike at the beginning.

I tell you what the eighties was like. Eaton Rifles was kept off of no.1 by Shuddupyaface by Joe bloody Dolce. God help us all

 

[mank!]

how can you say the eighties sucked and then mention the jam?

not to forget the fall, gang of four, sonic youth, (early) r.e.m., the smiths, billy bragg, minor threat, dag nasty...i could go on.

anyway, it's wrong to say <insert decade here> was best for music because each was vastly different.

the fifties gave me calypso.
the sixties gave me folk.
the seventies gave me punk.
the eighties gave me indie/post-punk.
the nineties gave me hip-hop.
the noughties gave me everything above regurgitated with a slightly different yet very catchy twist.

that my friends is FACT!

 

[Tom]

Theres a load of great eighties music, but that music pales into insignificance compared to the enormous library of music released in the same decade that was utter utter shite.

You're just cherry picking. For every Duran Duran there was a Dweezil Zappa.

 

[nath]

sonic youth

Ooo good call, not listened to Sonic Youth in ages.



*searches for CD*

 

[throdgrain]

how can you say the eighties sucked and then mention the jam?

not to forget the fall, gang of four, sonic youth, (early) r.e.m., the smiths, billy bragg, minor threat, dag nasty...i could go on.

anyway, it's wrong to say <insert decade here> was best for music because each was vastly different.

the fifties gave me calypso.
the sixties gave me folk.
the seventies gave me punk.
the eighties gave me indie/post-punk.
the nineties gave me hip-hop.
the noughties gave me everything above regurgitated with a slightly different yet very catchy twist.

that my friends is FACT!

The Jam started in the seventies, not the eighties. Most of their best stuff was late seventies or early eighties. Setting Sons was 1979.

 

[Opt1]

Theres a load of great eighties music, but that music pales into insignificance compared to the enormous library of music released in the same decade that was utter utter shite.

You're just cherry picking. For every Duran Duran there was a Dweezil Zappa.

QFT. It's easy to look back and forget all the shit that was about..

I wouldn't entirely know this of course, as I was only born in the late eighties.. :x

 

[DaGaffer]

I tell you what the eighties was like. Eaton Rifles was kept off of no.1 by Shuddupyaface by Joe bloody Dolce. God help us all

[PEDANT]It was Ultravox, Vienna, that was kept off No.1 by Joe Dolce[/PEDANT]

Your point still stands though. Around 85-88 was a particular low; all the good post-punk bands were breaking up, the entire chart seemed to be SAW, comedy records or fucking-jive-bunny megamixes during that period.

 

[throdgrain]

Anyway, its all down to perception, and what you actually like too

I spent my late teens/early twenties in the eighties, listening to some diverse music, from Crass to Hawkwind, and I did that becuase the VAST majority of music on the radio in the eighties was hideous. And thats U2 included btw

 

[Louster]

I was really just saying that there was pop in the eighties that had musical merit (in fact the eighties was really only an example - there was pop in the nineties that had merit too, but not so much of it, and yes, pop in the 70s and so on), that there really isn't any now, that this sucks and giving a theory as to why this has happened. I don't think 'cherry picking' is really the point; the point is that nowadays there are no cherries to be picked. Or, being very generous, there are far fewer. And I'm still only talking about 'popular', sales-chart-topping music here.

Also, I was slightly drunk when I made this thread. Given that the entire thing is about as subjective as is humanly possible, I don't think I would have made it otherwise. Maybe.

 

[throdgrain]

From that perspective I think you're right Louster.

I also think you're right to just post things as you think at the time. All this well reasoned debate is all very well, but it dont suit how my brain works a lot of the time

Having ideas and saying them, right or wrong, is life innit kind of thing know what I mean

 

[mank!]

The Jam started in the seventies, not the eighties. Most of their best stuff was late seventies or early eighties. Setting Sons was 1979.

ah but the gift was 1982 and that features the best jam song of all!

 

[Jupitus]

Ooo good call, not listened to Sonic Youth in ages.



*searches for CD*

'Pass the dutchie' is ace!!!

 

[Thadius]

I miss the variety of the Eighties charts(even though I wasnt alive!)

Nowadays, its all this indie crap or whatever is the flavour of the month

Just watched Saftey Dance video, I forgot how cool that was1!

 

[Opt1]

Half the problem is that so many people these days are just in it for the fame and the money.. and half the people that make it big only do so because they look good in slutty clothing / singing slutty things..

The other lot do because a particular thing is "in" and the record labels want to cash in on it..

 

[DaGaffer]

Half the problem is that so many people these days are just in it for the fame and the money.. and half the people that make it big only do so because they look good in slutty clothing / singing slutty things..

The other lot do because a particular thing is "in" and the record labels want to cash in on it..

Nah, sorry, Its always been about the money and fame. Its only when some of them get rich and famous they start talking about their 'art'. Even Elvis was criticised when he started out for his 'sexual' moves. All that's changed is you have to be a lot more explicit to get noticed.

 

[Opt1]

Perhaps you're right..

But don't get me started on some of the people you get on Pop Idol, Xfactor, etc...

 

[throdgrain]

Thats just a question of extremes. Yeah its always been about money and fame, but at least it was a fact that amongst some people at least that you had to be able to play a musical instrument somewhere along the line

Lets face it, if you really stop to consider it, and if maybe you are aware of what came before, Id say MTV was as responsible as anything else for the death of music. I only hope it can be reborn.