A scout without stealth...

[Tranquil-]

Just a point in keepdefense and low stealth..

An advantage the archers have in keepdefenses is stealth. To be able to stealth up to the edge, take aim and draw the bow while still being stealthed is important when avoiding being the aoe target or getting NS'ed etc..

With low stealth you'll be having a hard time trying to stay stealthed while drawing a shot aswell as trying to stealth ON the walls because of enemy stealthers or people hiding close to the walls and will be too close for you to actually stealth. (phew lots of stealth there) But you get my point..

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
Just a point in keepdefense and low stealth..

An advantage the archers have in keepdefenses is stealth. To be able to stealth up to the edge, take aim and draw the bow while still being stealthed is important when avoiding being the aoe target or getting NS'ed etc..

With low stealth you'll be having a hard time trying to stay stealthed while drawing a shot aswell as trying to stealth ON the walls because of enemy stealthers or people hiding close to the walls and will be too close for you to actually stealth. (phew lots of stealth there) But you get my point..

I'm getting volley. Works the same way as gtaoe. Just get a target and keep shooting. Stealth or no stealth, doesn't matter really with volley.

 

[skile]

Re: scouts...

Originally posted by Dyst-of-HB
Imo I think you should also consider lowering the bow spec some, in my experience having dragonfang instead of wyvernfang is a lot more important than having high bow skill instead of mediocre. Personally I respeced a long time ago from 46 bow to 34 and I could hardly tell the difference.

As for RA's I think you are very wrong, longshot/volley are pratically useless where as IP is probably the best RA available. Longshot is completely crap, it's crap for damage and most of the time you will just get bt'ed anyways, same goes for volley only volley is even crappier because you are required to get LS first.

TS is a bit more debatable but I still think it is a great skill when either cruising in emain or during keep defense, I would never pick it over IP or purge but after that it seems like a good choice.

Just don't expect that respeccing will magically fix the problems with the class, you will be sadly dissapointed like all of us who threw in the towel long ago.

Volley is going to be VERY good in milegate fights and keepdefences+attacks. And longshot to finish off targets who get out of range, to put the last arrow in their back.

Please people, read what I'm saying here. This new scout won't be my main char really. In normal RvsR I'll play the mincer mostly. I'm not expecting miracles, but atleast the best groupspec u can get out of a scout.

 

[skile]

Re: scouts...

Originally posted by Dyst-of-HB
Imo I think you should also consider lowering the bow spec some, in my experience having dragonfang instead of wyvernfang is a lot more important than having high bow skill instead of mediocre. Personally I respeced a long time ago from 46 bow to 34 and I could hardly tell the difference.

As for RA's I think you are very wrong, longshot/volley are pratically useless where as IP is probably the best RA available. Longshot is completely crap, it's crap for damage and most of the time you will just get bt'ed anyways, same goes for volley only volley is even crappier because you are required to get LS first.

TS is a bit more debatable but I still think it is a great skill when either cruising in emain or during keep defense, I would never pick it over IP or purge but after that it seems like a good choice.

Just don't expect that respeccing will magically fix the problems with the class, you will be sadly dissapointed like all of us who threw in the towel long ago.

Why get dragonfang when I have slam? Waste with both of em imo.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
actually... a scout like that is a ranged nuker - like a wizard - except they don't die in two hits, and can slam that zerker that's charging in...

superb support char (an archer standing behind the line of tanks? funny concept that)

On the other hand, he also has:

You get RA's....you get double BT's...you get fumbles/misses when facing a Hib/Mid 1 m away....

In the end he has slightly better defense (well.... 9% more absorb and a bit more hp and a shield) and will survive around 2 hits more.

The nuker on the other hand has QC+crowdcontrol (at least root, some have mezz in Albion) and better damage, less resists vs. miss/fumble/BT.

I am quite sure the scout would live less then 5 seconds longer when someone is on them. At least ALL casters can do nasty things like debuffs/CC/more damage.

If you bring TS then you at least ADD something to a RvR-group. Otherwise you are an BELOW-AVERAGE nuker and a BELOW-AVERAGE melee hybrid.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
actually... a scout like that is a ranged nuker - like a wizard - except they don't die in two hits, and can slam that zerker that's charging in...

superb support char (an archer standing behind the line of tanks? funny concept that)

I'm no PBT expert. But with about 2.7-2.8s drawtime I will still miss 1/2 shots due to 3s PBT. 2.7*2 is still almost 5 seconds for doing aprox 350-400 on zerkers and 400+ on casters talking buffed ofc).

A tactic would be to stick a caster, bind /assist to him and just shoot while he is nuking. And if some tank comes up to gank him I'll slam him right away.

And with 44 thrust spec I'll be able to do some dmg when melee is needed in groups as well.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
On the other hand, he also has:



In the end he has slightly better defense (well.... 9% more absorb and a bit more hp and a shield) and will survive around 2 hits more.

The nuker on the other hand has QC+crowdcontrol (at least root, some have mezz in Albion) and better damage, less resists vs. miss/fumble/BT.

I am quite sure the scout would live less then 5 seconds longer when someone is on them. At least ALL casters can do nasty things like debuffs/CC/more damage.

If you bring TS then you at least ADD something to a RvR-group. Otherwise you are an BELOW-AVERAGE nuker and a BELOW-AVERAGE melee hybrid.

Scouts have the best guard of all meleechars, for the notice . Compare the scouts dmg to a palas over 5 seconds and it basically is the same. The difference is that the pala needs to run away from his caster to get some damage in. Here is where the scout comes in. When the caster is free he gets to shoot and do dmg (good dmg if a couple of tanks are ganking on the same target).

 

[skile]

I'm 5L1 = 50 points to use on RA:

Here's what I'm thinking:

Volley+LS = 14
Aug Dex III = 10
MoA III = 10
Aug Quick II = 4
Thoughness II = 4
Dodger II = 4
MoB II = 4
= 50

After 50 I'll go for determination or purge I think and if I get high enough some avoidance of magic.

With MoB II and Dodger II + Good chance of block and evade with buffs. I'll take a couple of more zerkerhits than a caster, thats for sure.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by skile
Scouts have the best guard of all meleechars, for the notice . Compare the scouts dmg to a palas over 5 seconds and it basically is the same. The difference is that the pala needs to run away from his caster to get some damage in. Here is where the scout comes in. When the caster is free he gets to shoot and do dmg (good dmg if a couple of tanks are ganking on the same target).

Scouts don't have intercept to my knowledge, which can be pretty useful even in RvR.

Compared to paladins scouts bring a bit better dmg / overtime (when you put in arrows). However it's still poor to a pure nuker class

Scout has poor melee to a pure melee-class

Paladins can twist for extra AF or extra body-resists besides bringing end-regen to the group.

As utility a paladin is way more usefull then a scout. One thing the scout can do good: Spotting assassins. Take that away and you take the thing he EXCELS in off him.. Remaining: Someone who should have rolled another class....

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Scouts don't have intercept to my knowledge, which can be pretty useful even in RvR.

Compared to paladins scouts bring a bit better dmg / overtime (when you put in arrows). However it's still poor to a pure nuker class

Scout has poor melee to a pure melee-class

Paladins can twist for extra AF or extra body-resists besides bringing end-regen to the group.

As utility a paladin is way more usefull then a scout. One thing the scout can do good: Spotting assassins. Take that away and you take the thing he EXCELS in off him.. Remaining: Someone who should have rolled another class....

R E A D

How can a scouts bring A BIT more damage overtime compared to palas when when they (the palas) are standing next to the caster protecting him? It's impossible (if you don't count slamming the tank attacking the caster). So no Damage OR up a very high amount of dmg from the scout (overtime). If you still don't understand, R E A D A G A I N .

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by skile
R E A D

How can a scouts bring A BIT more damage overtime compared to palas when when they (the palas) are standing next to the caster protecting him? It's impossible (if you don't count slamming the tank attacking the caster). So no Damage OR up a very high amount of dmg from the scout (overtime). If you still don't understand, R E A D A G A I N .

Ever thought of the amount of utility a paladin brings is damage too?

Less damage taken due to AF-buff of paladin = dmg (to opponent, since you take less damage)

End-chant = more dmg because tanks don't have to worry about their end-costs (endless styling, think about LA + shammy end-buff)

Healchant = dmg recovered from opponents. Not much, but healing 5 members for 40 with doubletap healing does add up in the end (!)

Resistchant = less dmg taken from spells.

REDUCING DAMAGE AND GIVING OPPORTUNITIES TO YOUR REALMMATES TO DO MORE DAMAGE IS INDIRECT DAMAGE A PALADIN DOES.

The game is not ' look at me: I did 300 with an arrow on that zerker'. It is ALSO about ' look at me: I healed you during the fight for over 100 and reduced the damage by 50 and gave the tank end to kill that zerker' .

A sorc without nuking can bring TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE TO THE OPPONENT. Merely by doing debuffs and CC.

Healers do tremendous amounts of damage. If they heal you for 400 they indirectly deal 400 damage to the opponent. IT DOES NOT KILL BUT IT KEEPS YOUR GROUP ALIVE >>>>>> dealing damage.

If you don't understand those fundamentals I think it's too bad for you. But you bring nothing to a group as a scout in such a spec what others cannot do better. That is the issue.

 

[Belomar]

Stop flaming, Puppetmistress, you are making a fool of yourself. Everyone is free to play his or her class however they want, without people like you demanding they should roll a cookie cutter. Besides, I suspect Skile know 100x more than you about scouts. So kindly drop it.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Belomar
Stop flaming, Puppetmistress, you are making a fool of yourself. Everyone is free to play his or her class however they want, without people like you demanding they should roll a cookie cutter. Besides, I suspect Skile know 100x more than you about scouts. So kindly drop it.

I am very sorry, but this is NOT flaming. I analyzed the spec and I gave my opinion about it. He sees it differently, fine with me.

I just analyze the situation and see classes who are more suitable for the job he proposes.

If you call that flaming you shouldn't come to BW and propose a spec you have in mind.

That he knows more about scouts then me is out of the question. I surely hope he does. But this has nothing to do about scouts anymore, it's about game-mechanics.

If this is flaming... <sigh> grow up. If someone has a (harsh) comment about a proposal you made it's called flaming nowadays?!

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Ever thought of the amount of utility a paladin brings is damage too?

Less damage taken due to AF-buff of paladin = dmg (to opponent, since you take less damage)

End-chant = more dmg because tanks don't have to worry about their end-costs (endless styling, think about LA + shammy end-buff)

Healchant = dmg recovered from opponents. Not much, but healing 5 members for 40 with doubletap healing does add up in the end (!)

Resistchant = less dmg taken from spells.

REDUCING DAMAGE AND GIVING OPPORTUNITIES TO YOUR REALMMATES TO DO MORE DAMAGE IS INDIRECT DAMAGE A PALADIN DOES.

The game is not ' look at me: I did 300 with an arrow on that zerker'. It is ALSO about ' look at me: I healed you during the fight for over 100 and reduced the damage by 50 and gave the tank end to kill that zerker' .

A sorc without nuking can bring TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE TO THE OPPONENT. Merely by doing debuffs and CC.

Healers do tremendous amounts of damage. If they heal you for 400 they indirectly deal 400 damage to the opponent. IT DOES NOT KILL BUT IT KEEPS YOUR GROUP ALIVE >>>>>> dealing damage.

If you don't understand those fundamentals I think it's too bad for you. But you bring nothing to a group as a scout in such a spec what others cannot do better. That is the issue.

I understand you. But the scout still does something unique. It can act guard when needed, it can do decent dmg melee (44 thrust is good dmg when saracen) and it's able to do good damage and keep it self alive for a long time (much better defense than casters and more life). It's a "all in all" and if played well ofcourse it adds something to the group = variety.

What spec do you want then. See hidden? What does that add to a grp? some free rps once in a while?

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by skile
What spec do you want then. See hidden? What does that add to a grp? some free rps once in a while?

precisely

seriously for a grp scout TS is a must, sure at higher RR maybe but still. your fg comes across an sb zerg ganking some poor sod at amg/mmg as the grp approaches they all disappear, with TS thats like 2-3k free rps for you and your grp and some mighty nice payback n all

just one example of many many uses.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by K0nah
precisely

seriously for a grp scout TS is a must, sure at higher RR maybe but still. your fg comes across an sb zerg ganking some poor sod at amg/mmg as the grp approaches they all disappear, with TS thats like 2-3k free rps for you and your grp and some mighty nice payback n all

just one example of many many uses.

I would never do it for revenge m8, below my morals. However, does groups want like 500 free rps every 30 minute and gank some "poor" soul at amg without much resistance, it's not earned rps. And therefor quite wrong imho, and I don't commonly adjust to wrong situations, but I'll think it over .

 

[loxleyhood]

Originally posted by skile
I would never do it for revenge m8, below my morals.

You keep your morals, revenge on a shadowblade is one of the most amazing moments in RvR.