A potential 'fix' for casters/casting

Sarumancer

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
122
We're all a bit damn tired of how its nuke nuke nuke oh Im dead, be it from sorcs with their mocing lifetapping whilst immune, to bainshee's spamming aoes, to being stun nuke nuked by chanters/eldies/ments, to eating several bolts from silly distances.

Frankly, non casters are a bit tired of it, especially the good old healer types who cant dish out the heals fast enough to keep out. We've all seen the whines about over powered this and that, but no real solutions that wouldnt cause grief more so for one side than the others.

I think I have 2 possibilities.

1) hard cap dex at 250, just the same way qui is hard capped for archers, this means spells with 2 sec delve time could only be taken down to maybe 1.5sec, not a lot of a change, but half a sec slower, means 1 less nuke in 4 seconds, which is enough time for a main healer to react and have a heal launched.

2) Sliding scale the damage on nukes, much the same way its sliding scaled on Quickshot. If the spell is delved at 2.5seconds, but your dex lets you cast it on 1 second, the time factorial becomes the damage factorial. At 1 sec youre at around 40% of the cast time, so the spell does 40% of the damage. This would mean two click casting, 1 click to start casting, 1 to release, if you hold it for the full delve of the spell, you do full damage, if you let it go as a snap cast, you do a sliding amount of damage depending on how long you held onto the spell for.


As a 'trade' off for having the damage effectively 'nerfed', the interrupt code would be changed. If they get hit whilst casting, the spell goes off with the time theyve already spent casting the spell. So if they hit cast and 1sec later get smashed in the face by a naughty archer/scout/hunter/warlock, the spell gets lobbed at their target with 1sec of damage, or 40%.

The scale would also apply to all magic casts, on a stun, if they get interupted, the stun will only last for the equivalent amount of time. Eg 50% of the cast time when hit, the stun sticks for 50% of the time, the druid is 2 seconds through a 3 second cast cycle, the spell heals for 75% of its max value.

quick cast would let the spell go at 100% effectiveness.


So, what do you lot think? Good idea? worth lobbing at Mythic?
 

spook

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
249
to quote the TL program answers:

"Tabled - Need specifics"


But, on a more serious note. Would it only apply to damage spells? What about mezzing, heals, debuffs. I wouldn't want to be interupted while casting ae-mez and then give them immunity after the mez lasting 3 secs.

I agree that the damage is a bit over the top, but I only played druid in rvr a few times, so I'm not a good person to ask.
 

Nilmeia

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
180
Do you realize how hard can it be for even spec nuker to kill target in group with DECENT healer? How easy it is to be interrupted? Isn't interrupting casters/healers main point of certain classes in group? If you use MoC how much your dmg drops? That you don't have neverending power? That you go down in few hits?

Stop whining imo :twak:
 

Belomar

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,106
Casters and tanks are very well balanced in open field RvR, and each have their pros and cons. Notice how no single group setup is dominant these days? That's a sure sign of the game being in a quite good state, regardless of the whiners.

Of course, if you engage in keep warfare, it is pretty much given that ranged characters will perform better than melee ones, but that's hardly rocket science...
 

Dorin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
2,778
yeah, non debuff nukers against silly resists would enjoy this i bet... rather see a 15-20% dmg reduction overboard
 

Bubble

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
5,355
Sorry but they added banelord Tanks to counter casters very nicely.
Its normaly the BM's/Zerkers/Mercs who win the battles now.
 

Azathrim

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
1,802
By that, are you going to suggest reducing melee damage by 60-70% just as you just did suggest doing for magic damage?
 

SkarIronfist

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,200
Mmmm I am not sure I really agree with your post.

I agree that casters can do alot of damage, but they do need a debuffer to achieve that.

Caster groups really struggle with high RR tank groups. They are very hard to CC (Charge, SoS, Purge) and thats before you get to them having good healers and DI II.
 

Righthandof

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
1,332
Belomar said:
Casters and tanks are very well balanced in open field RvR, and each have their pros and cons.

oh yea, most tanks have a chance against a caster(especially stun caster) with 2+ brittle guards on him, and moc+lifedrain or so :p
 

Zebolt

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,247
Righthandof said:
oh yea, most tanks have a chance against a caster(especially stun caster) with 2+ brittle guards on him, and moc+lifedrain or so :p
Yeah, cuz' there are so many casters with stun, moc and lifedrain around it's crazy xD
 

Soester

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
61
what about stun that dont break when hit like mezz does both goes for mids healer stun and hibs barrage of color ??

that should be nerfed to id say and casters are the weakest in any grps cause they wear cloth armor :(

and its freaking annoying to be mezzed by a mid healer, then stunned and 2 mid attack u, and no chance of survival cause of stuns holding even tho u got a chance if stun would break
 

Belomar

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,106
Righthandof said:
oh yea, most tanks have a chance against a caster(especially stun caster) with 2+ brittle guards on him, and moc+lifedrain or so :p
In FG vs FG warfare it is balanced, but perhaps not in solo or small group RvR. Move along.
 

Belomar

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,106
Soester said:
what about stun that dont break when hit like mezz does
Yes, very good, that is the definition of "stun", and it is accessible in all realms. In your realm, both Clerics and Minstrels have magic stuns, and all shield tanks have an anytime melee stun.
 

haarewin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
2,756
Righthandof said:
oh yea, most tanks have a chance against a caster(especially stun caster) with 2+ brittle guards on him, and moc+lifedrain or so :p

well a 2hander is gonna have trouble vs brittles etc anyway.
i wouldnt whine, i'd respec.
 

Zebolt

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,247
Sarumancer said:
So, what do you lot think? Good idea? worth lobbing at Mythic?
I think the idea is good but it would kill some classes/specs in the process and therefor would not be good to implement.

Take me for example, darkness runemaster. I've specialized in dmg and speed, I specced darkness for absolute maximum cap and I got allmost nothing else to play with which makes me one of the most vounerable classes/specs in the game. If they were to gimp my dmg or my speed my class/spec wouldn't be worth playing and I would have to choose another class/spec. And would that be wrong you say? Yes. I've choosen to spec darkness maybe not cuz' it's best but cuz' of the playstyle, this is how I want to play and have most fun doing so and not any other class/spec which I have tried.

Fair to some is very unfair to others...
 

Puppet

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,231
IMO best way to start would be Resist-piercing working ONLY on the part of the resist-buffs; instead of on resists gained by items.

This would atleast nerf TOA'ed-caster damage on solo'ers for 10% - while keeping it to work normally in the situation where it was really needed: Nukes on people with resist-buffs.

Also I think casting-speed is way too high if you compare it with the run-speed of the chars nowadays. Back in the old-days a caster often relied on some sort of kiting and quickcast and such to kill a tank who ran up to him. Now its nuke,nuke,nuke,nuke - tank dead and hes on 700 range to the caster.

Capping DEX on 300-330 or so would make the game more enjoyable for me personally; but it will never happen.
 

Bubble

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
5,355
Zebolt said:
Yeah, cuz' there are so many casters with stun, moc and lifedrain around it's crazy xD

a very lucky SM or cabbie :p
 

Bubble

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
5,355
Puppet said:
IMO best way to start would be Resist-piercing working ONLY on the part of the resist-buffs; instead of on resists gained by items.

This would atleast nerf TOA'ed-caster damage on solo'ers for 10% - while keeping it to work normally in the situation where it was really needed: Nukes on people with resist-buffs.

Also I think casting-speed is way too high if you compare it with the run-speed of the chars nowadays. Back in the old-days a caster often relied on some sort of kiting and quickcast and such to kill a tank who ran up to him. Now its nuke,nuke,nuke,nuke - tank dead and hes on 700 range to the caster.

Capping DEX on 300-330 or so would make the game more enjoyable for me personally; but it will never happen.

Allow 25% RP and make it more ready available and that would be nice(RP only working against resists buffs). I nuke too meny people for 290 (-310).

As for the rest..
Almost every class has a way of dealing with ToAed casters, specialy hib tanks ^^
(your for Example Hit FZ and start shooting.. for easy win)
 

Tsabo

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
1,151
Puppet said:
IMO best way to start would be Resist-piercing working ONLY on the part of the resist-buffs; instead of on resists gained by items.

This would atleast nerf TOA'ed-caster damage on solo'ers for 10% - while keeping it to work normally in the situation where it was really needed: Nukes on people with resist-buffs.

Also I think casting-speed is way too high if you compare it with the run-speed of the chars nowadays. Back in the old-days a caster often relied on some sort of kiting and quickcast and such to kill a tank who ran up to him. Now its nuke,nuke,nuke,nuke - tank dead and hes on 700 range to the caster.

Capping DEX on 300-330 or so would make the game more enjoyable for me personally; but it will never happen.

So many tanks have ways to interupt casts though. Be it insta DD's, throw weapon, snares etc. And also other abilities such as charge etc can fook casters up too.

Imo, casters need the high cast speed to survive, if the tank isn't fast enough on the interupt then shame on them. Also considerin most tanks can kill a caster in 2-3 swings makes it very hard for the caster to do anything once the tank gets to them, esp as alot of tanks also have some form of stun(slam, crush styles, positionals etc).

Is all fine as it is imo.
 

Xxcalibur

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
1,202
casters dont need nerf.

Maybe u dont belive me but tanks still are better and more effective in the scene of rvr.
 

Zede

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
3,584
Xxcalibur said:
casters dont need nerf.

Maybe u dont belive me but tanks still are better and more effective in the scene of rvr.

I believe you :)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom