A look at the weapon choices for LA users (axe)

[Slu]

Originally made this post for VN Boards, but I guess some people here would like to see it as well, so here goes



Did some calculations regarding the different weapon choices LA users have. I've only done it with axes though.


Let's have a look then, shall we?

This first bit is something I did to help a guy asking for best set up with his TG axe. Was a 16.5dps 3.2spd axe.



4.2spd main hand + 3.2spd off hand with 250 qui = 2.294spd

3.2spd main hand + 2.9spd off hand with 250 qui = 1.891spd

Speed difference: (2.294 - 1.891)spd = 0.403spd

__________


I: 16.5dps 4.2spd MAIN HAND WEAPON + 16.5dps 3.2spd OFF HAND WEAPON


Unstyled damage:
U = DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD – 2) * .03)

Main hand base damage: 16.5dps 4.2spd axe = 16.5 * 4.2 * 3 * (1+ (4.2-2)* 0.03) = 221.6214 base damage

Off hand base damage: 16.5dps 3.2spd axe = 16.5 * 3.2 * 3 * (1 + (3.2-2)* 0.03) = 164.1024 base damage

!Then we have to find the actual Left Axe base damage.
(Using 1LA all the time in my calculations)


Base Damage done with LA: Unstyled Cap * (0.625 + 0.0034 * LA spec)

Maind hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 4.2 spd: 221.6214 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 139.2668878

Off hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 3.2 spd: 164.1024 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 103.1219482

Unstyled LA damage from both weapons: 139.2668878 + 103.1219482 = 242.388836 and an actual swing speed of 2.294spd




II: 16.5dps 3.2spd MAIN HAND WEAPON + 16.5dps 2.9spd LEFT HAND WEAPON


Unstyled damage:
U = DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD – 2) * .03)

Main hand base damage: 16.5dps 3.2spd axe = 16.5 * 3.2 * 3 * (1 + (3.2-2)* 0.03) = 164.1024 base damage

Off hand base damage: 16.5dps 2.9spd axe = 16.5 * 2.9 * 3 * (1 + (2.9-2)* 0.03) = 147.42585 base damage


!Then we have to find the actual Left Axe base damage.

Base Damage done with LA: Unstyled Cap * (0.625 + 0.0034 * LA spec)

Main hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 3.2 spd: 164.1024 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 103.1219482 base damage

Off hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 2.9 spd: 147.42585 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 92.64240414 base damage


Unstyled LA damage from both weapons: 103.1219482 + 92.64240414 = 195.7643523 and an actual swing speed of 1.891spd




Then you have to look at the style multipliers: (still using 250 qui and no haste)

First we have to find the effective speed:


Effective Speed = SPD * (1 – (Quickness – 60) / 500)) * (1 – Haste%)


I 4.2spd axe: 4.2 * (1 - 190/500) = 2,604spd

II 3.2spd axe: 3.2 * (1 - 190/500) = 1.984spd


Style multiplier: ((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage Cap

Using an effecitve CS spec of 44.

Let's take Garrote as an example:
Growth value for Garrote is 0.75. Using the CS spec as weapon spec.


I Style Multiplier using 16.5dps 4.2spd axestyle = garrote) = ((0.75 * 44) * 2,604) / 139.2668878 = 0.617031093

II Style Multiplier using 16.5dps 3.2spd axestyle = garrote) = ((0.75 * 44) * 1.984) / 103.1219482 = 0.6348987887


Hitting a target with no absorb / resists we get:

I 16.5dps 4.2spd axe:
Style bonus: +85
Total damage with main hand: 224 damage

Add in off hand damage (main hand styled damage + off hand base damage): 224 + 103 = 327 damage


II 16.5dps 3.2spd axe:
Style bonus: +65
Total damage with main hand: 168 damage

Add in off hand damage (main hand styled damage + off hand base damage): 168 + 92 = 260 damage



Final note!

Looks good, but now we have to look at the actual swing speed and look at the dps again.

I gives 327 damage every 2.294 second, ie: 327 / 2.294 = 142.5457716 damage per second


II gives 260 damage every 1.891 second, ie: 260 / 1.891 = 137.4933897 damage per second



SUMMARY:
So the best choice for you is clearly going with 16.5dps 4.2spd MAIN HAND and the 16.5dps 3.2spd TG axe in your off hand.




Note! If you can, you SHOULD use Gazsi's Bearded Axe because it's 16.2dps 2.4spd. This will bump off hand damage up and hte combo will be even better.



IMO most of the TG axes are just crap to us LA users, so don't waste money on them unless you really really want them because of the looks or something like that.


If there has been any recent changes to the TG axes lately, then I might be wrong, but from what I know at this time, the other axes simply aren't worth using.

_______________



Just to give you the best choice avaliable for us SBs, after all we need all the help we can get:

(4.2spd main hand + 2.4spd left hand with 250 qui = 2.046spd)

Unstyled damage:
U = DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD – 2) * .03)

Main hand base damage: 16.5dps 4.2spd axe = 16.5 * 4.2 * 3 * (1+ (4.2-2)* 0.03) = 221.6214 base damage

Off hand base damage: 15.0dps 2.4spd axe = 15.0 * 2.4 * 3 * (1 + (2.4-2)* 0.03) = 109.296 base damage


!Then we have to find the actual Left Axe base damage.

Base Damage done with LA: Unstyled Cap * (0.625 + 0.0034 * LA spec)

Maind hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 4.2 spd: 221.6214 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 139.2668878 base damage

Off hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 2.4 spd: 109.296 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 68.6816064 base damage

Unstyled LA damage from both weapons: 139.2668878 + 68.6816064 = 207.9484942 and an actual swing speed of 2.046spd


Then you have to look at the style multipliers: (still using 250 qui and no haste)

First we have to find the effective speed:


Effective Speed = SPD * (1 – (Quickness – 60) / 500)) * (1 – Haste%)


4.2spd axe: 4.2 * (1 - 190/500) = 2,604spd


Style multiplier: ((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage Cap

Using an effecitve CS spec of 44.

Let's take Garrote as an example:
Growth value for Garrote is 0.75. Using the CS spec as weapon spec.


Style Multiplier using 16.5dps 4.2spd axestyle = garrote) = ((0.75 * 44) * 2,604) / 139.2668878 = 0.617031093


Hitting a target with no absorb / resists we get:

16.5dps 4.2spd axe:
Style bonus: +85
Total damage with main hand: 224 damage

Add in off hand damage (main hand styled damage + off hand base damage): 224 + 68 = 292 damage

This gives 292 damage every 2.046 second, ie: 292 / 2.046 = 142.7174976 damage per second


So one of the best weapon set up you can have if you got no haste buff is still the slowest main hand weapon and the fastest off hand weapon you can find, ie 16.5dps main hand 4.2spd + 15.0dps 2.4spd off hand weapon.
Yes it sucks that our fastest craftable off hand weapon is only 15.0dps, but it's still one of the best choices for LA users.
One advantage with this choice is that you swing the fastest possible, minimizing the chance of them landing reactionary styles on you. You get you main damage from MAIN HAND, which will hit more often than the off hand will, so even though your off hand misses from time to time, the main hand will still deal out much damage at a fast swing speed.


Note! If you can, you SHOULD use Gazsi's Bearded Axe because it's 16.2dps 2.4spd. This will bump off hand damage up and hte combo will be even better. I'll show you later in the post.


If you're using a 16.5dps 4.2spd axe in Main Hand and a 16.5dps 2.9spd axe in off hand it will be like this:

(Using the main hand numbers I got from above.)

Off hand base damage: 16.5.0dps 2.9spd axe = 16.5 * 2.9 * 3 * (1 + (2.9-2)* 0.03) = 147.42585 base damage

Off hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 2.9 spd: 147.42585 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 92.64240414 base damage

Unstyled LA damage from both weapons: 139.2668878 + 92.64240414 = 231.9092919 and an actual swing speed of 2.201spd


16.5dps 4.2spd axe:
Style bonus: +85
Total damage with main hand: 224 damage

Add in off hand damage (main hand styled damage + off hand base damage): 224 + 92 = 316 damage

This gives 316 damage every 2.201 second, ie: 316 / 2.201 = 143.571104 damage per second

This gives you a bit higher damage per second than the hand axe combo did, but you're more dependant on hitting with your offhand as well since you swing a bit slower.




Done an example with the fastest TG axe, Tuscar's War Axe 16.5dps 3.0spd:

Off hand base damage: 16.5.0dps 3.0spd axe = 16.5 * 3.0 * 3 * (1 + (3-2)* 0.03) = 152.955
base damage

Off hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 3.0 spd: 152.955 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 96.116922 base damage

Unstyled LA damage from both weapons: 139.2668878 + 96.116922 = 235.3838098 and an actual swing speed of 2.201spd


16.5dps 4.2spd axe:
Style bonus: +85
Total damage with main hand: 224 damage

Add in off hand damage (main hand styled damage + off hand base damage): 224 + 96 = 320 damage

This gives 320 damage every 2.232 second, ie: 320 / 2.232 = 143.3691756 damage per second





NOTE!

Using Gazsi's Bearded Axe because it's 16.2dps 2.4spd. BEST POSSIBLE SET UP!



Off hand base damage: 16.2.0dps 2.4spd axe = 16.2 * 2.4 * 3 * (1 + (2.4-2)* 0.03) = 118.03968 base damage

Off hand: Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, 2.4 spd: 118.03968 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 74.17613491 base damage

Unstyled LA damage from both weapons: 139.2668878 + 74.17613491 = 213.4430227 and an actual swing speed of 2.046spd


16.5dps 4.2spd axe:
Style bonus: +85
Total damage with main hand: 224 damage

Add in off hand damage (main hand styled damage + off hand base damage): 224 + 74 = 298 damage

This gives 298 damage every 2.046 second, ie: 298 / 2.046 = 145.6500489 damage per second



Thanks for reading, and if you find anything that doesn't seem right, let me know please. I'm sure others are more into this than I am hehe

 

[Weeping Willow]

Hope Haldar/Hroft takes a look at this aswell, he seems pretty into this with tweaking sbs :>

 

[Haldar]

well, in short.

i can not comment on calculations yet - till i check it, will do it later.

it is no doubt that 16.5 4.2 axe(yet to come here - 1.64) + 16.2 2.4 axe is a best combo for SB/zerker damage-wise. However, 16.5 4.2 + 16.5 2.9 (WBA) combo should not be underestimated too -- as u can SC WBA the way u wish. I will post more on this subject later.....

 

[old.Lethul]

Isnt Gazsi's Bearded axe 25% or 30% bonus?

 

[shatar]

I just looked at the sheer volume of text and started scrolling down fast. You actually belive I will read all that, I am sure it is very interesting but I don't have the energy. And I am gonna spec my zerk sword/LA so not really interesting for me.
Massive work doing all that though

 

[Slu]

Currently Gazsi's Bearded Axe listed as a 25% bonus weapon, but I haven't checked if it's raised to 35% bonus in the latest patches.
I know they've raised a lot of lvl 50 weapons to a higher bonus, so I would hope (!) that it would be the same with this axe.


Yes, you can't SC it yourself, but it's fully possible to use the axe in a decent SC template.


The worst thing about it atm, is whether or not it's still a 25% bonus axe and the crappy 5dps damage shield proc it has. Other than that it's your best bet when choosing the most damaging weapons for most reliable damage. imho



Of course when you add damage procs / dot procs into this, it will be a bit different results whether or not the procs go off or not. This calculation shows what the most damaging melee weapons there are without adding those "possible" damage factors.

 

[Jerelyn]

all that fine calculation was like: "yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda" to me

to be honest.. i'm not really into how fast and how hard i chop down stuff, as long as it dies, and it dies relatively fast.. 0.1 spd or 1.3 spd doesn't really make a difference in my little daoc world.

please, do not take my post as a whine or a flame or something negative, i'm just stating that i think it's a rather waste of time to make calculations on swing speed with different weapons
but i must say, it's impressive that you've spent so much time one it. i sincerely hope that some people can use it, 'cause i can't sorry

(psst, but if you made the perfect SB template, i might read it )

Sincerely
-Jerelyn

 

[Whisperess]

Originally posted by Jerelyn
to be honest.. i'm not really into how fast and how hard i chop down stuff, as long as it dies, and it dies relatively fast.. 0.1 spd or 1.3 spd doesn't really make a difference in my little daoc world.

please, do not take my post as a whine or a flame or something negative, i'm just stating that i think it's a rather waste of time to make calculations on swing speed with different weapons

Some of us others in the world do however like to get the max possible out of our characters - and 0.1 spd or 1.3 spd makes a -lot- of difference. Swing speed happen to be extremely important for LA users btw.

 

[Cant TouchThis]

hmmm

Some people have way too much time on their hands

 

[AbPoon]

Just use a 2.4 in your offhand you noobs ok

 

[sorusi]

in grps its better to use 3.0ish offhand due to cap (if grp has got celerity that is ofc)

 

[Onedda]

Gazsi's Bearded Axe is 35% i`am 99% sure

100 qua
100 dur
100 con