A
Aeiedil
Guest
- Thread starter
- #31
*gently slaughters sicko*
B
Bleri McThrust
Guest
- Thread starter
- #32
Ok I have 3 questions now..
1) Tell us who are the E&E for each of the English servers/realms ?
2) What is ther role ?
3) What the hell is PARP ?
1) Tell us who are the E&E for each of the English servers/realms ?
2) What is ther role ?
3) What the hell is PARP ?
I
ivan_tribbiani
Guest
- Thread starter
- #33
1) Cant disclose national secret... well pay me 5 mithril and ill reconsider....
2) "Judge Dread"
3) Prydwen Association of Role Players ???? its a roleplay board though.
O
old.Noita
Guest
- Thread starter
- #34
1) Do you know the basics of the infamous Code of Conduct?
YES
2) Do you actually report people that violate the CoC?
Havent done personally, but I do advise those with seemingly intractable problems to report.
3) Do you violate the CoC, state character name, time, and how... (hehe...trick question. )
Not to my knowledge though I did tell one person I had never met or spoken to before to go Fuck themselves after they sent me an abusive PM slagging me off for getting killed by Niar as I was heading solo on Yggdra ZW to AMGO!! Does this count?
4) Do you think the CoC is right?
In part
5) Do you think the CoC works?
In part
6) Do you think GOA enforce the CoC actively?
Not enough
7) Do you actually care about the CoC?
YES
8) Do you think a section on the Website that states numbers (not names) of CoC violators, their crimes, and punishments, would help deter people from violating the CoC?
Possibly
9) Do you think ingame Mods would alleviate a lot of CoC violations? (a la /appeal)
YES
10) Do you know any Eyes & Ears people in your realm?
No
11) What do you think the E&E actually do?
More than most of us probably.
I see the CoC as a kind of social contract, which, attempts to lay down basic tenets of behaviour acceptable to all within the DAoC community. We all agree for example NOT to exploit bugs or "unintended design features" within the game and when we do find bugs within the game we are to report them etc.
However, unlike "true" contracts both EULA and the CoC (in my opinion) fall short of complying with the basic principles of common law in regard to valid contracts ie. offer, acceptance and consideration, for example there are insufficient safeguards to prevent those who lack legal capacity from accepting them. To my mind there are also issues surrounding sufficient clarity in the drafting of terms and in the expression of mutual and reciprocal rights and duties.
What we have then, in the case of the CoC (but it applies to EULA as well) are Agreements to which we MUST become parties in order to play DAoC thereby negating the inherent negotiative nature and multipartite protection offered by a "true" contract.
Therefore, a great deal is left to trust. We have to trust that the CoC is truly in our (and the games) best interest, also we have to 1) trust that breaches are dealt with, 2) that they are dealt with in a timely manner and 3) that the sanctions are fair and representative of the breach concerned.
Sanctions perform many roles, and have been the subject of countless forms of discussion since civilised societies began to form rules governing acceptable behaviour. However, what they MUST do is 1) Punish the breach sufficiently in order to attempt to prevent recidivism and 2) Give a sufficiently strong signal to the community that this type of behaviour is unacceptable thereby acting as a deterrent to others who may have considered such actions themselves.
I do not believe that the system we have currently in place is transparent or open enough to allow for #2 above and we have to trust that #1 is carried out.
There is a great emphasis on trust here, and in these cynical times trust Im afraid is in VERY short supply and in my opinion rightly so. Therefore, any measures that would bring these things to the attention of the mainly non CoC violating DAoC community would be a good thing.
More in game mods...sure why not? Rogues Gallery on the website again...good idea and why not?
Selective Dragon flypasts for people who abuse wall bugs at keeps? YES PLEASE
YES
2) Do you actually report people that violate the CoC?
Havent done personally, but I do advise those with seemingly intractable problems to report.
3) Do you violate the CoC, state character name, time, and how... (hehe...trick question. )
Not to my knowledge though I did tell one person I had never met or spoken to before to go Fuck themselves after they sent me an abusive PM slagging me off for getting killed by Niar as I was heading solo on Yggdra ZW to AMGO!! Does this count?
4) Do you think the CoC is right?
In part
5) Do you think the CoC works?
In part
6) Do you think GOA enforce the CoC actively?
Not enough
7) Do you actually care about the CoC?
YES
8) Do you think a section on the Website that states numbers (not names) of CoC violators, their crimes, and punishments, would help deter people from violating the CoC?
Possibly
9) Do you think ingame Mods would alleviate a lot of CoC violations? (a la /appeal)
YES
10) Do you know any Eyes & Ears people in your realm?
No
11) What do you think the E&E actually do?
More than most of us probably.
I see the CoC as a kind of social contract, which, attempts to lay down basic tenets of behaviour acceptable to all within the DAoC community. We all agree for example NOT to exploit bugs or "unintended design features" within the game and when we do find bugs within the game we are to report them etc.
However, unlike "true" contracts both EULA and the CoC (in my opinion) fall short of complying with the basic principles of common law in regard to valid contracts ie. offer, acceptance and consideration, for example there are insufficient safeguards to prevent those who lack legal capacity from accepting them. To my mind there are also issues surrounding sufficient clarity in the drafting of terms and in the expression of mutual and reciprocal rights and duties.
What we have then, in the case of the CoC (but it applies to EULA as well) are Agreements to which we MUST become parties in order to play DAoC thereby negating the inherent negotiative nature and multipartite protection offered by a "true" contract.
Therefore, a great deal is left to trust. We have to trust that the CoC is truly in our (and the games) best interest, also we have to 1) trust that breaches are dealt with, 2) that they are dealt with in a timely manner and 3) that the sanctions are fair and representative of the breach concerned.
Sanctions perform many roles, and have been the subject of countless forms of discussion since civilised societies began to form rules governing acceptable behaviour. However, what they MUST do is 1) Punish the breach sufficiently in order to attempt to prevent recidivism and 2) Give a sufficiently strong signal to the community that this type of behaviour is unacceptable thereby acting as a deterrent to others who may have considered such actions themselves.
I do not believe that the system we have currently in place is transparent or open enough to allow for #2 above and we have to trust that #1 is carried out.
There is a great emphasis on trust here, and in these cynical times trust Im afraid is in VERY short supply and in my opinion rightly so. Therefore, any measures that would bring these things to the attention of the mainly non CoC violating DAoC community would be a good thing.
More in game mods...sure why not? Rogues Gallery on the website again...good idea and why not?
Selective Dragon flypasts for people who abuse wall bugs at keeps? YES PLEASE
F
Flimgoblin
Guest
- Thread starter
- #35
1) Do you know the basics of the infamous Code of Conduct?
yeah
2) Do you actually report people that violate the CoC?
Sometimes - if they're abusing bugs to prey on other people, or have particularly offensive names (that other people agree ain't on).
3) Do you violate the CoC, state character name, time, and
how... (hehe...trick question.
)
Don't think so
4) Do you think the CoC is right?
It's got its moments.
5) Do you think the CoC works?
Somewhat.
6) Do you think GOA enforce the CoC actively?
Most of it yes, but in more of a 'you tell us, we'll sort it' kinda way. No evidence to say that they're actively hunting for exploiters.
7) Do you actually care about the CoC?
Yeah, without it the game would be rife with cheaters.
8) Do you think a section on the Website that states numbers (not names) of CoC violators, their crimes, and punishments, would help deter people from violating the CoC?
Maybe... it'd resolve the problem of people not thinking anything was being done.
9) Do you think ingame Mods would alleviate a lot of CoC violations? (a la /appeal)
Not really.. they'd just get spammed with pointless inane things. I'd rather not have to spend more money per month just so someone can fill up the appeal queues with 'I gave all my money to X and they didn't give it back!' - RightNow ensures that the problem is serious enough to require attention....
10) Do you know any Eyes & Ears people in your realm?
yep
11) What do you think the E&E actually do?
Gauge the mood of the players, filter the concerns into something legible/focused. Direct attention to community concerns. Answer /advice questions. Post questionnaires.
yeah
2) Do you actually report people that violate the CoC?
Sometimes - if they're abusing bugs to prey on other people, or have particularly offensive names (that other people agree ain't on).
3) Do you violate the CoC, state character name, time, and
how... (hehe...trick question.
)Don't think so
4) Do you think the CoC is right?
It's got its moments.
5) Do you think the CoC works?
Somewhat.
6) Do you think GOA enforce the CoC actively?
Most of it yes, but in more of a 'you tell us, we'll sort it' kinda way. No evidence to say that they're actively hunting for exploiters.
7) Do you actually care about the CoC?
Yeah, without it the game would be rife with cheaters.
8) Do you think a section on the Website that states numbers (not names) of CoC violators, their crimes, and punishments, would help deter people from violating the CoC?
Maybe... it'd resolve the problem of people not thinking anything was being done.
9) Do you think ingame Mods would alleviate a lot of CoC violations? (a la /appeal)
Not really.. they'd just get spammed with pointless inane things. I'd rather not have to spend more money per month just so someone can fill up the appeal queues with 'I gave all my money to X and they didn't give it back!' - RightNow ensures that the problem is serious enough to require attention....
10) Do you know any Eyes & Ears people in your realm?
yep
11) What do you think the E&E actually do?
Gauge the mood of the players, filter the concerns into something legible/focused. Direct attention to community concerns. Answer /advice questions. Post questionnaires.
O
old.Verata
Guest
- Thread starter
- #36
Sicko:
"Being supportive GOA fanbois? Making pointless polls on BW? Slagging off anyone who dares to voice citizism however politely phrased... "
You seem think you know what they do, but you don't know who they are? Come on, man - don't advertise your ignorance...
For the folk who took this the way it was intended, Bleri and Fingoniel pretty much got it spot on:
"These are a small team of volunteers Realm/Server specific who will report the concerns of the player base to GM's. They will have more direct contact and can report harrasement exploitation etc."
"Gauge the mood of the players, filter the concerns into something legible/focused. Direct attention to community concerns. Answer /advice questions. Post questionnaires."
Okay except for the "post questionnaires" part. That's just Brannor...
No, we're not Judge Dredd wannabes. No, we're not GOA fanboys. We're just people who enjoy the game, who want to see it played fairly and properly and who want to help out.
Possibility of recruitment? I live over 10,000km from France...
"Being supportive GOA fanbois? Making pointless polls on BW? Slagging off anyone who dares to voice citizism however politely phrased... "
You seem think you know what they do, but you don't know who they are? Come on, man - don't advertise your ignorance...
For the folk who took this the way it was intended, Bleri and Fingoniel pretty much got it spot on:
"These are a small team of volunteers Realm/Server specific who will report the concerns of the player base to GM's. They will have more direct contact and can report harrasement exploitation etc."
"Gauge the mood of the players, filter the concerns into something legible/focused. Direct attention to community concerns. Answer /advice questions. Post questionnaires."
Okay except for the "post questionnaires" part. That's just Brannor...
No, we're not Judge Dredd wannabes. No, we're not GOA fanboys. We're just people who enjoy the game, who want to see it played fairly and properly and who want to help out.
Possibility of recruitment? I live over 10,000km from France...
I
ivan_tribbiani
Guest
- Thread starter
- #37
You arent ???? Then you arent as 'ard as i thought
<Judge Dredd was a sarcastic comparison, Your honour >
O
old.chesnor
Guest
- Thread starter
- #38
Must be hard to give a representative idea to GOA about the mood of players, or players concerns, when most people (judging by this thread) don't actually know who their E&E are ?
Do E&E advertise the fact they are E&E (not in forum sigs btw) or do they covertly gather player feeling without the players actually being aware (mostly) they are E&E?
O
old.Verata
Guest
- Thread starter
- #39
Well GOA have been putting off making an official announcement for quite some time now because they want some way of flagging the people in-game. Because of that, not everyone knows who we are or what we do. We've had to rely on word-of-mouth to let people know that we're around.
Look, no-one said we were very active. All we can do at this stage is pass on news that reaches us and point GOA to issues that have arisen. I'd say at this stage we're about 25% as active as we should be. Hopefully once GOA get themselves sorted out and raise some awareness, we'll be at 100% and able to what we're supposed to.
Until then, we rely on threads like this or on people to let others know that we exist.
Look, no-one said we were very active. All we can do at this stage is pass on news that reaches us and point GOA to issues that have arisen. I'd say at this stage we're about 25% as active as we should be. Hopefully once GOA get themselves sorted out and raise some awareness, we'll be at 100% and able to what we're supposed to.
Until then, we rely on threads like this or on people to let others know that we exist.
H
HargloweHyfryd
Guest
- Thread starter
- #40
Originally posted by Brannor McThife
1) Do you know the basics of the infamous Code of Conduct?
2) Do you actually report people that violate the CoC?
3) Do you violate the CoC, state character name, time, and how... (hehe...trick question.
4) Do you think the CoC is right?
5) Do you think the CoC works?
6) Do you think GOA enforce the CoC actively?
7) Do you actually care about the CoC?
8) Do you think a section on the Website that states numbers (not names) of CoC violators, their crimes, and punishments, would help deter people from violating the CoC?
9) Do you think ingame Mods would alleviate a lot of CoC violations? (a la /appeal)
10) Do you know any Eyes & Ears people in your realm?
11) What do you think the E&E actually do?
-G [/B]
1) I know the general principles, yes.
2) If the offense is 'big' enough in my opinion, yes.
3) I don't think I ever did, and if I ever did: not intentionally
4)) yes
5) I don't think it does. You hardly ever see reports about/from offenders being punished. Without that you can only tell if it works from observing the person you reported in the first place.
6) Can't really tell. See answer 5
7) Yes. Rules are there to help the majority of players have fun while playing, without irritations kicking in.
8) Yes. See answer 5
9) Absolutely, although that Mod would become swarmed with nonsensical and made-up reports too.
10) Yes.
11) Already been answered by far more knowledgeable people than lill' old me
Z
Zargar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #41
I'll give my answers to this poll here from the other side of the fence:
1) Do you know the basics of the infamous Code of Conduct?
- Yes.
2) Do you actually report people that violate the CoC?
- Yes.
3) Do you violate the CoC, state character name, time, and how... (hehe...trick question. )
- No.
4) Do you think the CoC is right?
- I think the Code of Conduct largely follows common sense, as a ruleset to prevent harassment and exploitation. So if its common sense, why have them at all? Not all people wish to respect other players or follow common sense in a competitive or emotinally heated situation. In addition to this, the CoC is also there for protection of the players against unfounded persecution. We are humans working here, and we make mistakes. If we were to evaluate every single case on our personal judgement alone, the chance of players getting mistakenly punished, or players getting treated differently depending on which Customer Support Representative treated their cases. The rules are there to have a basis to work from, so players know where to expect GOA to take action. I have to add a remark to this question: Even if you don’t think the CoC is “right”, you still have to follow it. It is one of the terms for playing the game.
5) Do you think the CoC works?
- You cannot set up rules for every possible instance, and likewise the CoC does not cover every possible situation. Those situations are far between however, and in my job I most often have the CoC to rely on in cases of doubting wether an offence was comitted or not. In the light of my experience with working with this ruleset, I have to say, yes, I think it works.
6) Do you think GOA enforce the CoC actively?
- Yes we do. As in all situations where you have limited rescources, certain types of issues take higher priority than others. An example could be that changing offensive names is high priority, as other players cannot chose to filter them out, like they can with the obscenity filter in the normal chat text. Amount of time involved in treating a type of offence also affects its priority.
7) Do you actually care about the CoC?
- As a part of my job, naturally, yes. When I play as a player, it has rarely been a big concern, as I find it easy to judge when my actions clearly aren’t intended within the game mechanics *cough*screenshotjumping*cough*. As for harassment, I haven’t experienced anything that I couldnt walk away from, or deal with through a few sarcastic remarks.
8) Do you think a section on the Website that states numbers (not names) of CoC violators, their crimes, and punishments, would help deter people from violating the CoC?
- I do not think the numbers displayed on the page would discourage people who intentionally exploit/harass. I think such numbers on the website would be regarded as a misplaced warning finger, with little real effect.
9) Do you think ingame Mods would alleviate a lot of CoC violations? (a la /appeal)
- Actually I don’t. I think there would be alot more reports/appeals than we currently have, and which have a lighter character, but I doubt that less violations would take place. One of the reasons we have chosen the Rightnow approach, is based on the logic: “If you can’t take 2 minutes to report a problem, then the problem must be very small”. Now, if it was just a Yes/No question wether I like ingame mods or not: Sure. It doesn’t work like that however. Such amount of people, only there for support, is extremely expensive, and I would rather see those rescources spent in other areas.
10) Do you know any Eyes & Ears people in your realm?
- Yeah I know all the E&E in all the realms
11) What do you think the E&E actually do?
- The Eyes and Ears team is made up of volounteer players who would like to do something extra for the gameworld of Dark Age of Camelot. Their main function is to be a link of communication between us here at GOA and the players. The link goes both ways. They will report “general issues” in the community, player feedback on events, bugs/exploits, CoC violations and whatever else they encounter that they think we should know about. They have direct contact to the GOA team and as such they are usually better informed on what is going on, and can communicate some of this to the player base. They are spread out across servers, realms and levels as well as possible, and they are by no means GOA fanbois. We do not have use of a volounteer team that praise our every action, we need to know when something works and when it doesnt so we can change and improve. Their views and posts ingame and on the boards do not represent GOA. They may be able to tell you what GOAs view on those issues is though. Personally, I respect them for the volounteer work they do, well knowing they will recieve no payment or special treatment in cases of CoC violations for example.
We will put up more information on the Eyes and Ears on the website soon.
-Zargar
1) Do you know the basics of the infamous Code of Conduct?
- Yes.
2) Do you actually report people that violate the CoC?
- Yes.
3) Do you violate the CoC, state character name, time, and how... (hehe...trick question. )
- No.
4) Do you think the CoC is right?
- I think the Code of Conduct largely follows common sense, as a ruleset to prevent harassment and exploitation. So if its common sense, why have them at all? Not all people wish to respect other players or follow common sense in a competitive or emotinally heated situation. In addition to this, the CoC is also there for protection of the players against unfounded persecution. We are humans working here, and we make mistakes. If we were to evaluate every single case on our personal judgement alone, the chance of players getting mistakenly punished, or players getting treated differently depending on which Customer Support Representative treated their cases. The rules are there to have a basis to work from, so players know where to expect GOA to take action. I have to add a remark to this question: Even if you don’t think the CoC is “right”, you still have to follow it. It is one of the terms for playing the game.
5) Do you think the CoC works?
- You cannot set up rules for every possible instance, and likewise the CoC does not cover every possible situation. Those situations are far between however, and in my job I most often have the CoC to rely on in cases of doubting wether an offence was comitted or not. In the light of my experience with working with this ruleset, I have to say, yes, I think it works.
6) Do you think GOA enforce the CoC actively?
- Yes we do. As in all situations where you have limited rescources, certain types of issues take higher priority than others. An example could be that changing offensive names is high priority, as other players cannot chose to filter them out, like they can with the obscenity filter in the normal chat text. Amount of time involved in treating a type of offence also affects its priority.
7) Do you actually care about the CoC?
- As a part of my job, naturally, yes. When I play as a player, it has rarely been a big concern, as I find it easy to judge when my actions clearly aren’t intended within the game mechanics *cough*screenshotjumping*cough*. As for harassment, I haven’t experienced anything that I couldnt walk away from, or deal with through a few sarcastic remarks.
8) Do you think a section on the Website that states numbers (not names) of CoC violators, their crimes, and punishments, would help deter people from violating the CoC?
- I do not think the numbers displayed on the page would discourage people who intentionally exploit/harass. I think such numbers on the website would be regarded as a misplaced warning finger, with little real effect.
9) Do you think ingame Mods would alleviate a lot of CoC violations? (a la /appeal)
- Actually I don’t. I think there would be alot more reports/appeals than we currently have, and which have a lighter character, but I doubt that less violations would take place. One of the reasons we have chosen the Rightnow approach, is based on the logic: “If you can’t take 2 minutes to report a problem, then the problem must be very small”. Now, if it was just a Yes/No question wether I like ingame mods or not: Sure. It doesn’t work like that however. Such amount of people, only there for support, is extremely expensive, and I would rather see those rescources spent in other areas.
10) Do you know any Eyes & Ears people in your realm?
- Yeah I know all the E&E in all the realms
11) What do you think the E&E actually do?
- The Eyes and Ears team is made up of volounteer players who would like to do something extra for the gameworld of Dark Age of Camelot. Their main function is to be a link of communication between us here at GOA and the players. The link goes both ways. They will report “general issues” in the community, player feedback on events, bugs/exploits, CoC violations and whatever else they encounter that they think we should know about. They have direct contact to the GOA team and as such they are usually better informed on what is going on, and can communicate some of this to the player base. They are spread out across servers, realms and levels as well as possible, and they are by no means GOA fanbois. We do not have use of a volounteer team that praise our every action, we need to know when something works and when it doesnt so we can change and improve. Their views and posts ingame and on the boards do not represent GOA. They may be able to tell you what GOAs view on those issues is though. Personally, I respect them for the volounteer work they do, well knowing they will recieve no payment or special treatment in cases of CoC violations for example.
We will put up more information on the Eyes and Ears on the website soon.
-Zargar
K
kemor
Guest
- Thread starter
- #42
^
^
^
^
^
See above.
^
^
^
^
See above.
A
Aeiedil
Guest
- Thread starter
- #43
kemor = lazy, lets zargar do all the legworks *tuts*
B
Brannor McThife
Guest
- Thread starter
- #44
Aeiedil, I bet Camber stood behind them when they typed that.
Anyway, nice to know they answerred (gee, they aren't ignoring me. ) and one part was accomplished. K/Z stated that they do actively enforce it, though I (and others) may not agree with the way it's enforced.
This still doesn't mean I don't want to be the dragon.
Everyone please note that line...that we get NO special treatment...
-G
Anyway, nice to know they answerred (gee, they aren't ignoring me.
) and one part was accomplished. K/Z stated that they do actively enforce it, though I (and others) may not agree with the way it's enforced.This still doesn't mean I don't want to be the dragon.
Everyone please note that line...that we get NO special treatment...
-G
A
Aeiedil
Guest
- Thread starter
- #45
brannor, thats cause camber is the one with the whip, think of all that effort he has to do to get them to write :s poor fella