A faint light... (Hope for Melee)

[Brannor McThife]

Next up for the Strike Team

Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please!

So many issues!

I don't care how far away. But I saw MELEE in there!



-G

 

[Flimgoblin]

Hey Mercs got mentioned by name!



let's hope they do something major to improve it all...

get rid of the charge/mez/sleep/rezz/sniped cycle!

 

[klavrynd]

zerks got throwing axes so they're a finished class ...

</sarcasm>

 

[Spudgie]

Hey I don't care about you melees, I saw bolt problems mentioned

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by klavrynd
zerks got throwing axes so they're a finished class ...

</sarcasm>

Hehe...yeah. You got something us warriors have had all along and hardly ever use...

I mean, who the hell is gonna spec in throwing axes???

-G

 

[Flimgoblin]

Armsmen spec in crossbows (well some do)...

Zerks can't spec in throwing weapons..

Berserkers are doing OK if you compare them to the other tanks...

all of their issues seem to be the general tank malaise (i.e. mostly worthless in RvR)

I've not played a zerk so there could be issues there I've no idea about

I do know for a fact you're doing a lot better than the poor blademasters or the slightly less poor mercenaries...

(because Left Axe styles are actually worth using... the base line slash skills completely out-do the dual wield ones )

 

[klavrynd]

I feel sorry for Blademasters since they really are thé biggest melee gimps around (triple wield looks neat on paper but is a joke when playing)

I dont feel that mercs are more gimped then zerks since they do get to wear chain armor and they can use a multitude of weaponry (a crush merc beats the crap out of every zerk , be it with or without dirty tricks)

Ive been testing 2h vs left axe now (with a multitude of axes including ga, drakulv militia, netherium handaxe, immolated dragonfire cleaver , brilliant ebony axe of mindless rage etc in all combinations you can think off) and 2h (using the ghastly axe)
leaves me with more end and more hp at the end of a fight
(and im not just spamming doublefrost)

 

[old.Hendrick]

Mercs styles are not useless, they are just position based. I often use them in PvE. In RvR they are not that good though, I admit it. But a fresh mercenary can always kill an even-con or slightly stronger berserker because his dirty trick renders the zerk-bear useless.

 

[krait]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Next up for the Strike Team

Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please!

So many issues!

I don't care how far away. But I saw MELEE in there!



-G

They're probably gonna nerf melee....and give more power to casters.

 

[old.Arnor]

Berserkers are doing OK if you compare them to the other tanks...

Ehhmm, no.



1st of all we are not a Tank per se, we are light tanks





You say potatoe, I say fuck you

 

[old.Arnor]

They're probably gonna nerf melee....and give more power to casters.

Oh yeah! That would really be a needed change, like we tanks havent tasted our bit of the nerf-log



Hello Sarcasm, come right in!

 

[listepik]

I hope they nerf everybody, except infils

 

[SilverHood]

I would like to se a bit more balancing of classses.... one class should not be able to totally domiate all others

it should be like a Rock / scissor / paper thing

like
caster > tank
stealther > caster
Tank > stealther

rahter than
caster > tank
Stealther > tank

 

[Lanceloc]

Originally posted by SilverHood
I would like to se a bit more balancing of classses.... one class should not be able to totally domiate all others

it should be like a Rock / scissor / paper thing

like
caster > tank
stealther > caster
Tank > stealther

rahter than
caster > tank
Stealther > tank

I think its more complex than this kind of thing. Take for example

* Scouts speccing in crit shot and not stealth. A well aimed arrow should kill a cloth wearing skinny runt IMO.
* Wizards/Theurgs/Enchanters/Cabalists/Elds/Runies etc etc should be able to kill anything with their high damage spells of destruction but what about counter spells? How about anti-mez spells? Globe of invulnerability? Should high resists to spells using items be more effective?

I think that until the game code is taken several dimensions further and many more possibilities added there will always be a known best class and it will get repetitive and thus uninteresting.

A few suggestions....

* Tower shields being 95% effective against archers if actively hiding behind it. 50% effective against bolt spells etc
* More varied spell lines. How about a spell line that isnt just the same spell but more powerful? I would like to suggest spells from the great D&D handbooks...dimension door, teleport, stoneskin, haste, globe of invulnerability, minor globe of invulnerability, invisibility, detect evil, free action, shield of spell reflection etc etc
* How about potions of giant strength, healing, speed, spell absorbtion
* How about terrain usage for tactical advantage? Higher altitude = better to chance to hit in melee or higher range of arrows/spells
* Collision detection. This wont be implemented because Mythic are not intellectually capable or they disagree with it. IMO this feature is THE MOST IMPORTANT.

Ah well, maybe i go write my own friggin game.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Arnor

Ehhmm, no.
1st of all we are not a Tank per se, we are light tanks
You say potatoe, I say fuck you

Actually a Light tank is a Tank, same way a heavy tank is, sheesh
Bit like saying a red car is not a car.

Big words you're using there I'm impressed ;P

Mercs are ace in PvE... shame the 'no position, anytime' dual wield skill (misty gloom) is pap but if you can get behind a monster shadows edge +anything that chains off it is evil.

The main whine is that RvR is so fast that positionals are all but useless (though I hear the lvl 50 front positional is good as you usually get to face your opponent).

I don't agree with the 'waah mercs are useless' whine... they need some work, but are far from totally gimped.
(except for the fact they're tanks in RvR.... a general malaise)

It'd be nice for dual wield to be a bit less evade-centred ... evade I does not happen enough to let you use em. (yeah screw the infiltrators! muahuahuha! how many of them actually use the styles anyway? )

Also it'd be nice for there to be more than just one (admittedly very nce when it's not resisted) ability on a 30m for our dirty tricks... but hey.


Edit:

Heh reading this and my previous post I sound schizo
Must be mellower in the morning.. DW styles need some work, they're currently less good than the slash ones (on a par with thrust/crush I think) but you have to spec two lines to be any good at them...

So they should be as good as the polearm/two handed styles.

 

[Flimgoblin]

* Tower shields being 95% effective against archers if actively hiding behind it. 50% effective against bolt spells etc

Try using 'engage' it's a level 7 shield spell that everyone capable of shield spec should get (my merc has it purely for RvR)

* More varied spell lines. How about a spell line that isnt just the same spell but more powerful? I would like to suggest spells from the great D&D handbooks...dimension door, teleport, stoneskin, haste, globe of invulnerability, minor globe of invulnerability, invisibility, detect evil, free action, shield of spell reflection etc etc

I read a thread on the wizard boards that invisibility spells (along with detect invisibility obviously) might come along in the far far future... What you have to watch out for with adding spells is that it's far easier to add brand new spell effects than it is to think of new combat styles, so you need to make sure you don't make the fighters obsolete.

* How about potions of giant strength, healing, speed, spell absorbtion

Apparently coming in with alchemy but they'll not be as good as the cleric buffs or whatever.
(no idea about speed, but that'd be ace. Spell absorbtion would be cool too)

* How about terrain usage for tactical advantage? Higher altitude = better to chance to hit in melee or higher range of arrows/spells
* Collision detection. This wont be implemented because Mythic are not intellectually capable or they disagree with it. IMO this feature is THE MOST IMPORTANT.

Higher altitude gives some advantage in that you can see behind you a bit.. but the way clipping planes work it doesn't let you see any farther (theres an idea?)

Collision detection would make it an entirely different ball game... shield wall of tanks anyone? it would rock

 

[old.Krusha]

Collision detection?.. then you can scrub keep/relic raids... imagine 2nd door or on the way to the lord (or actually AT the lord),

maybe warriors should get e "none shall pass" ability that they can use so ppl cant get by, but you have to turn it on. CD all the time wouldnt work

 

[old.Lianuchta]

I like the idea of collsion detection, but only for members of enemy realms. If you can run into your own realmmates too, it'd be a right pain, and open to exploits like people blocking off dungeon/city entrances and charging tolls. But for proper warfare it would be essential. Line of Tanks at the front, casters behind them, light tanks and archers on the flanks, healers at the back. Would make for some more Epic battles than this running around after the easy kills first.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Based on strength and dexterity of course...



-G

 

[Lanceloc]

I like the subject of collision detection and would like to take this further if only for intellectual debate.

I think CD can work, and can make the ultimate mmorpg. The only problem is that its a tricky coding challenge. In the case of DAOC, I think that guard pops would have to be reduced by a lot in order to make up for enhanced defense using CD to camp stairs, entrance to keep etc.

Maybe CD only against the enemy could be implemented. The coding requirements would be to assign a collision area around each character, say a tight circle, and check for overlap of circles every game loop. If overlap occurs then calculate possible directions character may move, e.g. backwards, to the side if no obstruction etc.

I think that it would dramatically increase server load but not affect bandwidth usage much as the server already has each characters coordinates, it would just have to send the clients additional valid movement data. CD is already implemented against environmental obstructions so theres another positive factor.

The reason server load would increase is that hundreds of more calculations per game loop would need to resolved. I don't have current processing requirement statistics but I'm sure todays technology could handle this.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Nice thinking Lanceloc...here's some more thoughts.

What about a battle charge? Having a L50 Troll Warrior charge downhill with skald speed into a defensive line should have consequences...not just a "stop"...but damage taken to both parties, possibly breeching the lines, etc. Defense should get bonuses if others next to him. Shield spec people get "Shield Wall" skill to block all arrows and add to defensive formations. The longer you stand in one place, the greater your Defense bonus to being moved...etc.

Would be really nice.

-G

 

[Flimgoblin]

Aye,

'Troll! A Troll!, ok lads BRACE!'

(clang) shield wall moves back a foot or so.. troll gets hacked down...

Hrm maybe firing lurikeen from trebuchets could become a favoured tactic...

 

[Lanceloc]

Indeed Brannor! I'd like to see bodies and body parts flying when a troll charges into some feeble humans/elves/lurikeens.

Maybe Mythic should released a truly hardcore server with blood n guts gory graphics. Rated 18 of course.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Fingoniel
Hrm maybe firing lurikeen from trebuchets could become a favoured tactic...

You played MTG didn't you? Goblin deck...breed 'em and FIRE!

Old fashion Red Goblin deck.
Goblin Warrens (Sacrifice 2 goblins, place three goblin tokens in play)
Keldon Warlords (1+*/1+* where * = number of creatures you control)
Goblin Kings (All goblins +1/+1 and Mountain walk?)
Goblin catapults ("Sacrifice a goblin, do 1 damage to any target")

Breed lots of little goblins (enhanced by GK's so they can't be dropped by a 1 hit)...then attack with Keldon Warlords who are now at 40/40 +, anything that blocks gets a bunch of goblins shot at it... (Anyone say SHOTGUN!!!)

Loved that... Oh the memories.

- "I attack you with my army."
= "WHAT?!? ALL of them???"
- "Yes."
= "Eep!"

-G

 

[klavrynd]

add a twist of goblin bomb (cc : R , sac a gobo for 5 damage)
and throw out kemor warlord for coat of arms which gives all critters +x/+x is they're of the same breed.

maybe the new middie naturalist class will work as a thallid deck then

cast tons of 1/1 fungus that breed every 3th turn, add tons of counters (and possibly cause manaburn with oppenent) with 4 eladamri's vineyard and fungal cloud , and tata , you ve got tons of fungus coming in

 

[old.Kladen]

why do mythic forget about the class called PALADIN when thinking of rvr problems.

woo hoo we rez and thats all we do. (and die)

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh great Brannor..managed to make another thread where people can whine about their classes and how everyone else is better

 

[Brannor McThife]

Oh sure. Blame me. I'm responsible for everybody's issues...



-G

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh no no blaming..well..a bit of blaming

People funny. Gripe gripe gripe...hehe

 

[Bodzilla]

Originally posted by old.Kladen
why do mythic forget about the class called PALADIN when thinking of rvr problems.

woo hoo we rez and thats all we do. (and die)

don't paladins fal under the general melee catagory ?