A couple of Armsmen questions

[Kagato.]

Its not bullshit kagato .... Its obvious you are an offensive Armsman < Caster killer, if u can > and the others are defensive Arsmmen,

Thats pretty much what I said, no character is obligated to be defensive just because some other people have there own little visions of what a characters role is (just check out the smite cleric whine threads for examples).

even if u are an offensive armsman having slam is awesome

Fine if you want to mess about switching from 1 weapon and a shield to a polearm back to 1 weapon and a shield again, 3 extra quickbar button presses mid-combat, you do that, but im not interested in it, RvR is hectic enough as it is.

how many times has the caster run away from you ? or u miss a style as he is moving?

Erm Crippling Blow ? medium damage and movement reduction, Defenders Revenge long duration stun....Come on its not that hard to get round these things, the day DAoC melee combat revolves around one bloody shield style is the day I quit the game.

9 sec castable stun

Detirmination works on castable stuns I believe as well.

get 2 free shots

You'd need 11 seconds to get 2 free shots of with a good polearm.

Don't get me wrong - Slam is absolutely superb, a 9 second stun is just plain evil.

And still people seem to forget the LONG duration stun on Defenders Revenge....

My point is, play your characters how you want to play them, this is my spec, im max offensive and can't be touched for damage, and will freely admit my defense suffers accordingly, but I group with a full rej cleric so im free to shrug of the blows and smash through for best effect. In melee we need damage dealers as well as takers, and I still do the guarding if needed but in my experiance im best suited naturally to taking down the enemy fast which im good at. If that play style doesn't suite you then by all means hide behind your shields, there your characters you can do what you like with them, but I wont be told what my 'duty' is and how I should play and nor would I tell anyone else how to play theres. People know there own characters best and can decide for themselves.

 

[old.Wildfire]

Your damage can quite easily be touched, I can assure you each and every one of my nukes will do 2x as much as your pole against any class you care to mention - thats my job. I don't claim to be a defensive wizzy and gimp my character by trying to give him PBAOE and AE root under the guise that I'm defensive...

In RvR the most valuable task that a tank class can perform is to take damage themselves, or by their actions to prefent damage from being inflicted on more vulnerable, task-providing members of the group.

I don't think anyone can argue against that. My personal preference would be to take a slamming armsman over one with higher damage output, because slams save my ass many times every day.

 

[gunner440]

imo armsman slam is not really worth it and even less now with ra's available.

b4 ra's i got xxx cannot have this effect again yet. bla bla bs and that means that about 20% end is wasted and that's a lot for tanks.

as for offensive and defensive armsmen i understand both situations as i switch roles sometimes and have made up my opinion based on what ive seen.

1. only thing worth using on a grp caster is intercept, block rate on guard is kinda crappy when styles are used.

2. when u engage a grp and normally being a tank u charge caster/healer whtvr, if u see one or 2 break loose from mezz or root then immediately rush back to take him out, once done go back to hitting who u were hitting b4 and that should solve the problem before they actually get to the casters. in the event of an enemy tank actually reaching a caster, i assure u 2 offensive tanks are more effective than one with guard on teh caster.

3. Defensive armsmen would be more productive if they had guard on an offensive armsmen shielding them in battle whilst at the same time doing some dmg on the selected target and allowing healer to save mana for other times.

4. cleric > casters. if u have to prioritise defence i suggest rather sacrificing a caster for a cleric as no clerics = certain death. i advise keeping cleric in view during fighting so when any nme come near it u beat it to death while yelling hands off cleric

5. when confronting a group(s) with mezzer try and pinpoint him or her early on and rush past him as he is casting, if this is done 1 of 2 things will happen:

· he will get mezz off but u and some other tanks will be free as mezz didnt reach
· he had used /face on u as u were in the front line and mezz would only affect u thus leaving the rest of ur grp free.

6. some positional styles are much better to use than the other high end use anytime moves. sure, it requires practice but it can b done.

7. if ur a lone tank and u are attacking, try and occupy enemy casters by interrupting spells e.g. hit caster x, hit caster y, x, y, x, y. This very tricky as u have to trust ur grp to take those casters out asap as a quickcast (or 2 in some cases) can leave u dead very quickly.

8. If u know that target has pbt try and coordinate attacks with the defensive/offensive tank e.g.
runemaster.. pbt: defensive tank hits 1st and offensive follows up directly after
or
offensive tank x 2: higher dmg tank hits second e.g. 2h armsman and polearmsman. 2h breaks pbt and polearm hits, 2h breaks, pole hits. usually only takes 2 hits of pole to kill a caster. believe me this tactic does work and is very useful especially against annoying hibs with warden pbt.

9. DO NOT hesistate to ask for eb or haste from grpmembers as it aids u a lot in battle - however in the case of haste it is only useful if used to buff large weapon tanks (2h or pole) as the effect is almost non existent with ss tanks. with just haste (no other buffs) pbt can be broken with the slower 2h weaps such as axes, greatswords.

10. plan ahead. whilst roaming or when not in fight try and sort out who does what e.g. intercept on who, guard etc, who will break pbt. defensive armsman shld have stick on the offensve armsman that is being guarded.

just my thoughts on what i have seen so far hope they help

 

[Kagato.]

each and every one of my nukes will do 2x as much

Erm duh, this is a MELEE discussion mate comparing slam and poles, your nukes don't matter, but if you want to compare fair enough they do more damage, but I can do good damage AND take good damage back without needing bodyguards.

or by their actions to prefent damage from being inflicted on more vulnerable, task-providing members of the group.

Which is exactly what we offensive armsman do by killing them faster.

I don't think anyone can argue against that

Don't you believe it, this is barrys world remember.

My personal preference would be to take a slamming armsman over one with higher damage output

Naturally, because you want to save your own neck, just like i'd pick a full rej cleric over a smiter for the better heals.

But it takes alsorts of people to win a war, and I, just like every other fully offensive armsman, picked and designed this character so I could fight and win in melee, not spend my time hanging out at the back baby-sitting you casters whilst you have all the fun killing and nuking. If you want a bodyguard get a 2nd account and make a guard-bot, some of us want to fight and have fun.

And besides, just how much use is that shield-spec guy going to do you anyway? First thing that happens we have everyone screaming at us to kill the casters, so we are going to be in the front like, your not going to get much guarding there, and first hit with slam is going to get pbt'd anyway and if I remember rightly slam doesn't even get any to-hit bonuses (I admit I could be wrong about this though), at least my Defenders Revenge has long duration stun and high to hit modifer, on-top of insane damage and low fatigue cost, and dealing with enemy tanks is the mezzer's/casters job, if we're hitting enemy tanks and guarding you lot we're doing exactly what we shouldn't be cause we ought to be out there killing the damn bards and healers (as suggested in your own thread elsewhere).

Oh and thanks for some sensible input to this thread Gunnerr, nice to see theres some other tanks about with common sense.

And I agree, intercept is the best one to use and helps alot.

 

[old.Second]

i've been thinking... has anyone acctualy made a pure xbow armsman? i bet those attacker never saw that comming

how much would a 50 xbow Armsman hit for u think with a good xbow?

so i was thinking since i never use my Armsman anyway... if i now go for max xbow and max slash... then i would make a damn good "archer" hehe.

Think i'll do that when respec is possible! and u cant stop me! hehe.

 

[Novamir]

lol at alb tanks. no wonder your sorcs die so fast in rvr!

imo there is one rule for people who can have shield spec: get slam. no tank should be without slam, it's just silly not to have it.

my perfect spec for an armsman would be as vindicator and kcini said:

44 pole / 2h (brought up with RR5+ other bonuses easy)
39 crush (brought up with RR5+ other bonuses easy)
42 shield
rest parry

this is an excellent spec. its laughable that not ONE alb tank that i have ever seen has slam->2h damage. this of course will give you the option to defend the sorcs life if need be with guard and slams (#1 priority), or lay into nmes

 

[Kagato.]

The game would sure be damn boring though if everyone followed your cookie-cutter examples because its 'there duty'. Might as well forget specc points and just have the styles given to you at the right level.

i've been thinking... has anyone acctualy made a pure xbow armsman? i bet those attacker never saw that comming

Not heard of it on our server but I bet some american has given it a go by now. I doubt you'd see a huge differance however and the problem is just about any spell and all other archers would out-distance you. Would be fun for a laugh but the crossbow is mostly just for pulling and keep seiges when theres no scouts to guard.

 

[old.Second]

Originally posted by Kagato.
The game would sure be damn boring though if everyone followed your cookie-cutter examples because its 'there duty'. Might as well forget specc points and just have the styles given to you at the right level.




Not heard of it on our server but I bet some american has given it a go by now. I doubt you'd see a huge differance however and the problem is just about any spell and all other archers would out-distance you. Would be fun for a laugh but the crossbow is mostly just for pulling and keep seiges when theres no scouts to guard.

would still be great fun to crit shoot some caster while ur rooted
caster think he's safe and u pierce his ass

 

[old.CrazyMuppet]

At respec i'm going:

50 Slash
50 Shield
27 Xbow
10 Parry

with +8 from RR and items i will have 35 xbow. I've read US threads about armsman with 35+ in xbow dropping casters with 2 shots, or even 1 if it crits well.

I find myself attacking and defending keeps quite often, and since i shot down a cute little yellow kobold called Tinylisa standing on a keepwall casting i love my xbow

As for the whole Slam style blabla much endurance blabla:

Engage enemy, block, Brutalise!! (lvl50 shield style) has low fatigue cost, use after blocking.

Also very funny when an archer is trying to hit a caster i have guard on... i just see them giving up after 10 blocks in a row.

 

[kinadold]

Well word is from US with 1.53 blocking that 2-handed has problems against s&b, that s&b has problems against dualwielders, but that 2-handed whacks dualwielders.

I think that speaks for the hybrid spec.

Also when facing certain enemies like berserker, its pretty
handy to have a anytime stun style.

Xbow hmm, the speed is just to slow, and as an armsman
its bad to raise quick.

About dam types with new armortables

Crush looks a bit outdated, best against albs themself.

Trust is good against mids and neutral to most hibs, but worse
s&b styles than slash. Also 2 of the best mid/hib tank classes is
beserker and hero which trust aint so good against.

Slash has good s&b style, bonus against most hib, but weak against chain mids. Maybe worth it when you consider the popularity of beserkers and heros. Today most have very high
slash resist, but with spellcrafting most will have max resist in vital areas, so wont be such a disadvantage.

Btw my scout cannot as a rule, drop casters in 2 shoots with 60+
skilllv and a 5.4 speed longbow, not to mention 230 dex. Dunno
what US mages wear but a decent lv 50 mage has close to 1000 hp and 25% slash resist.

 

[belth]

Hmm, doesn't Midgard Studded become Crush vulnerable, Slash neutral, Thrust resist? Not sure on that, but some other armor besides Albion leather became that.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by belth
Hmm, doesn't Midgard Studded become Crush vulnerable, Slash neutral, Thrust resist? Not sure on that, but some other armor besides Albion leather became that.

Nope, Norse Studded becomes Crush Neutral, Slash Vulnerable and Thrust Resist (same as norse leather). The only type that becomes the same as Albion Leather is Plate.

Full table here:

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/438.php

 

[belth]

Just found a link on Allakhazam for the new armor tables /em admits memory-loss

 

[drunkard]

Now I'm even more confused as to how(if at all) to respec my armsman

I'm curently offensive and aiming for:

50 2-handed
44 crush
36 parry
7 shield (engage is a must)
6 xbow (leftovers)

The reasoning being high dmg output with a reasonable chance to parry, I went for crush because not many other people do and seems to be quite neutral so hopefully people wont be so keen get their crush resist up. I went for 2h over pole because of the stun styles it has; there is a 3 sec stun that chains off a normal style, a 6 sec stun which chains off a side positioned style, and a 3 sec one hit rear positioned stun(stop the buggers running off).

I was thinking of respeccing to thrust/pole because I dont seem to be doing that much dmg and 2h doesn't seem to be that much quicker. Maybe I'm wrong but the polearmsman seem to be hitting much harder than me, is that the case?

After reading all this stuff about slam I'm thinking maybe a hybrid is the way to go (I'm not gonna make a defensive armsman, if I wanted to be defensive I'd be a pally).

I guess it's down to sacrificing parry and some hitting power for the ability to slam, and also to go sword and board if you want to.

I've been thinking of this hybrid spec:

44 Polearm
44 crush
42 shield
13 parry
4 xbow

Does that sound like a usable template? I'm only rr2 atm so have little rvr experience, although my current spec seems to be working quite well in grps so far.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by drunkard
I was thinking of respeccing to thrust/pole because I dont seem to be doing that much dmg and 2h doesn't seem to be that much quicker. Maybe I'm wrong but the polearmsman seem to be hitting much harder than me, is that the case?

It's in the styles I think... Polearms and 2-handers have no differences, only styles/animations/graphics/speed.

 

[drunkard]

Originally posted by belth


It's in the styles I think... Polearms and 2-handers have no differences, only styles/animations/graphics/speed.

That was what I originally thought, but I really seem to be doing a lot less damage than polearms. I have trouble getting agro of 1h pallys

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by drunkard
That was what I originally thought, but I really seem to be doing a lot less damage than polearms. I have trouble getting agro of 1h pallys

poles tend to be slower than 2handers hence they hit for more per hit. try using the slowest and highest quality 2hander u can find. also u will struggle getting aggro of a pally since his heal chant is an aggro magnet, its not cos hes doing uber dmg

spec looks good to me altho u might consider going lower in crush and higher in parry/pole if the 44 style is naff. something else to consider is +pole items are very hard to find, +crush easier.

 

[Falcor]

hehe havent read this for a while, kegato chill m8 im only giving my opinion, way i c it, tanks do not do the big damage in rvr the casters do, if i can keep a caster alive using slam then thats a good thing....yes slam takes a lot of end but remember we get endurance chant of pallys sometime....also slam keeps u alive.....u tired taking out a hib caster with out slam, tbh i dotn fancy it, they nuke for half almost my hit points for a start, if i can lay slam on them after ive broken there pbt i can usually take em out beofre they get chance to stun me and nuke me.

Slam is very valuable in rvr, u can use it to stop ppl running away...u can save casters with it, u can save your own neck with it, and it does a lot of damage, with the shield i use i do 350 damage(ish) on a slam including the proc, it procs nearly every time i use it. Also u can use slam anytime, a stun mvoe that has a requirment is not as useful.

One thing i dont understand is how heros like swopping over between spear or lw and shield slam in rvr, do u not find it annoying?

Im considering respeccing some in pole, or i may put a lot more points into parry, not sure yet....as 50 slahs style is not too good at all, very little extra damage, but i dunno if i would ever bother swopping over to polearm in heat of moment in rvr or just keep using my shield, shield gets improved a lot soon, when this happens riposte is gonna be a very nice style, ive tried it quite a lot and it does better damage than diamond slash i have found.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents of course ppl spec as they want, but imo, shield stuns are invaluable in rvr......if for nothing than to keep a sorcerer alive=)