A couple of Armsmen questions

[vladamyr]

after seeing too many mountains (middie) im gonna make an armsmen on excal/alb and i just have a few questions first of im gonna make highlander using polearms/slash but my main queery is are they really any diffrent to midgard warriors? and are they a fun class to play AND how do they fair in RvR?

thats it
all help appreciated.

PS if you could post some templates i would be greatfull i dont really wana go near shield, having a shield thane im a bit sick of defense and wana go all out offense i wouldent mind using a X bow tho

 

[gunner440]

50 2h
44 slash/crush
7 shield
35 parry
10 xbow

dream spec (well at least for me)

and in rvr well, firstly u have to realise we are NOT a solo class hence grouping is essential. If u wanna have fun in rvr i suggest u try and get used to enemy classes... and be able to pinpoint the major threats 1st i.e. runie warden bard healer etc later on u learn a few more tricks but they come with experience, u learn who to avoid in rvr (spear hero O_O) etc.

be prepared to die a lot in rvr tho, as u r the 1st line of defence in front of the feeble casters

as u said u want to be an offensive armsman the 1st thing u will need in rvr is a cleric, note: i said cleric not SMITER if they keep u alive while u whack enemy it will be extremely fun

 

[ReaLX]

my template will be 50thrust(slash in ur case)/50pole/28(rest)parry, thats the most offensive template, u could go more in parry (And less in thrust/slash) for more defensive play...

 

[Draylor]

My spec isnt too far from what Gunnerr listed:

50 polearm
44 slash
28 parry
15 shield
13 xbow

(Reason for the parry/shield/xbow numbers? Just because!)

Taking polearm to 50 gives a good rear positional style, but you may want to stop at 44 and use the other spec points elsewhere. Each level of mastery of parrying is equivalent to +6 parry - its worth keeping that in mind when your deciding how high to spec in parry.

Its a reasonable fun class to play - in the right group. Soloing isnt really an option but grouped it works out pretty well.

Im not the best person to comment on RvR (only R2L8 for now) but its about as viable as any other tank spec. As an offensive melee char you will die fast, but with the right group youll live long enough to make a few RPs and have fun doing it.

 

[Kagato.]

If your going polearm you want to be all out offensive or nothing.

50 Polearm
50 Slash (you really want to go slash? check the future patch armour tables again first before deciding)

28 Parry

And you'll have enough points left over for 5 Shield (guard) and 4 odd ones in crossbow for the hell of it.

This is absolute max damage specc, you do max top and minimum damage, and of cause being two-handed you get double the chance to parry as it is, so 28 is still reasonable, and can be improved with mastery of parrying more cheaply then speccing points into it.

You can take slash down a bit and specc more parry but at the end of the day you want to do the max damage possible in the shortest time in RvR so parry doesn't really come into it, and even with duelling you will be using Defenders Rage / Defenders Revenge so shouldn't loose to another tank anyway.

 

[vindicat0r]

Thats all well and good .. some nice speccs but you all seem to be overlooking 42 in shield. ... u get slam ..... that is sooo useful whether its duel or in RvR .... it doesnt need a previous move to do .. use any time


In RvR slam your target and equip your polearm ... go to work on him while he watchs you destroy him

Imho to have a very offensive specc while still retaining the ablility to protect, is as follows:

Polearm 50
Shield 42
Slash 39

now you have the option to go 44 polearm and dump those points into parry .... remember you dont have to parry when he is stunned

Polearm 44
Shield 42
Slash 39
Parry 24

You can adapt to any situation really .. if you know how to play to charc strenghts

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

For fun in rvr, as a tank, you need to be with a good group...
Most of the time you will spend mezzed, then stunned, then dead... Yes, maybe the lowered cost of Purge and Determination will help a little, but basically while each other class can spend ra's on more damage, I have to spend it on getting out of mezzes and stunnes...
Playing RvR as a tank can be fun, and I would go for the max damage output template. Landing slam right now is hard, but will only become harder with proper melee code I believe.
Not sure on the last comment though.
But I agree with you highlander spec, and would indeed go for polearm to max damage.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Kcinimodus]

I'm currently specced:

50 polearm: max dmg
44 thrust: good minimum dmg
36 parry: some defense
9 shield: for guard/engage
left over points in xbow

I like this specc, but gonna try this allround specc on testserver to see how things work out:

44 polearm: for stun style
42 shield: for slam
39 thrust/crush: okish minimum dmg
24 parry: some defense
rest in xbow

This way I can play defense if needed, and slam (very usefull, in pve and especially in rvr (with a small hunting group, not with alb zerg that is)). And go offensive is needed. A guildmate of my has this kinda specc atm with his arms, and it looks ok to me .

Oh, and I'm gonna try 50 xbow on the testserver, wanna 1shot kobolds from distance, would be fun .

 

[Flimgoblin]

Two handed's don't get double the chance to parry - they're just twice as hard to parry
(the double chance myth is due to a bug from ages ago being fixed, doubling the base parry chance for two handed weapons)

The armsman team lead's spec is (something like)

50 polearm
39 slash
39 thrust
16 parry
4 crossbow

i.e. two weapontypes...
damage won't be as much as a 50/50 (max damage will be but the variance will be worse)

 

[vladamyr]

thnx for all your help
after looking at the templates the best one for me seems 50 polearms
50 slash/thrust (looking at tables im not sure now )
28 parry
and the rest in Xbow
just for the simple damage it can inflict
thnx again and see ya all soon

 

[old.Emma]

im trying out pole at the mo on my new char, and i have to say the dmg is nutts, but wheres my defense :/ i have none, bare the odd parry once in a blue moon :/

prolly gonna respecc to sword and shield. aiming for 44 slash/44 shield/44 parry for the ultimate defensive tank

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Vlad even if you dont want to spec much in shield at least spec 7 points for Engage.

My own personal favourite has always been :-

Thrust 39
Pole 44
Parry 24
Shield 42
rest points in xbow

With items R/R etc not hard to max Thrust and Pole to 50. Any return after 50, so Ive heard isnt worth it. Im not going to get the chance to try out the level 50 Polearm style on Gorre (will only be lvl 49). But I think the chances of using it are maybe to few to spend the points trying to get it, at least for me.

However Im just waiting to see how things develope in US since the Melee patch. So may change my mind in the end.

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by vladamyr
thnx for all your help
after looking at the templates the best one for me seems 50 polearms
50 slash/thrust (looking at tables im not sure now )
28 parry
and the rest in Xbow
just for the simple damage it can inflict
thnx again and see ya all soon

hybrid slam/pole spec is the best by far for rvr and anyone says different can duel me when 1.54 comes

 

[Flimgoblin]

depends who yer dueling K0nah

a Polearmer will splat a merc, a merc will chew up a sword/shield, the sword/shield will slaughter the polearmer

(all other things considered equal)

mainly due to dual wield halving blocks, polearms (well any two hander) halving parry, and blocking being damned helpful against polearms

But that's just my theory anyway

 

[old.Wildfire]

"after seeing too many mountains (middie) im gonna make an armsmen"

[subliminal messaging] level a mind sorc or a wizard, can never have too many! and fun to play. This subliminal message was brought to you by Wildfire(tm) [/subliminal messaging]

So you're going to make a sorc instead? What made you change your mind?

 

[appollo creed]

My own template and im very happy:

Slash 50
Shield 50
Xbow 25
Parry 14

Using a crafted bastard i do hit hard, a very close RvR pal who is a pole user tells me he wishes he wasnt pole. The spd is something like 5.6 and if he misses 1st hit i.e. a caster with bt he could be down the river without a paddle

I understand u wanna deal alot of damage, but slam is soooo much fun

And bring on 1.54 and the duels /em pokes Konah

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Fingoniel
(all other things considered equal)

diff classes, diff RAs, diff resists whats to be equal? i'm looking forward to taking on a polarmsman tbh, they aint that different from heros and they dont "splat" me or anywhere near it.. get ur arse lvl'd & actually play some rvr instead of reading about it.

 

[Kagato.]

Vlad even with 50 pole and base damage type and 28 parry you will still have enough points left to get 5 in shield for guard, if you want it, and 4 in crossbow.

Personally I wouldn't want to be messing about switching from polearm to shield, and one-handed weapon, mid combat for a slam, then back again to polearm, then to attack, during which it will make you exit combat mode so you'll take more damage from anyone else. Sounds ok for duels, but if your in a duel why not just use Rage/Revenge combo which has a LONG duration stun on it.

The spd is something like 5.6

Depends on the pole, pikes are only 4.4, I use a Arcanium Partizan (thankyou Kiarra) which is 5.5, sure, its slow, but when it hits you know about it, and with Mastery of Pain for increased chance to critical the damage is insane.

anyone says different can duel me when 1.54 comes

Gladly, and looking forward to it,

 

[belth]

Oh, about /duels Classes of one realm aren't supposed to be balanced between each other (just an early pointer for the whiners about "balance", we'll see them, I'm 100% sure)

 

[Falcor]

armsman isnt an armsman without 42 shield slam, they cant do their duty otherwise

 

[appollo creed]

Dont forget, when theres no mids in odins, shields can be used as snowboards.

 

[Kagato.]

armsman isnt an armsman without 42 shield slam, they cant do their duty otherwise

lol sorry but thats hilarious heheh

 

[old.Emma]

so just how would 44 sword/slash/crush, 44 shield/44 parry fair in duels, imho you`d be pretty damn good.. chuck in MoB2 and MoP2(parry) and your`d be fairly balanced as far as defense goes against both 2h and duel weilders

 

[old.CrazyMuppet]

Originally posted by Kagato.


lol sorry but thats hilarious heheh

Falcor is right... as an armsman your duty is to protect the casters... how are you gonna keep the spear hero from hitting your group's sorcerer? not with Poleaxe, that's for sure.... but you do with Guard, Slam and Brutalise (if you take shield spec to 50).

 

[Kagato.]

Falcor is right... as an armsman your duty is to protect the casters

Bullshit, my duty is to perform whatever role I have designed my character for, I am a maximum offensive armsman, designed solely to do as much damage as possible and I do that bloody damn good too.
If I designed a defensive armsman then fair enough protecting would be my duty, but if your going defensive might as well do it proply and make a paladin.

So don't come here telling me what my damn duty is, I know my duty full well and its to do what i've designed my character to do to its fullest potential. Play your own characters how you want to play them and i'll play mine how I want too.

Incidently you only need shield 5 to get guard and you can still get that with 50/50/28 spec and if it really matters, just use Intercept, every armsman gets that.

 

[vindicat0r]

Originally posted by Kagato.


Bullshit, my duty is to perform whatever role I have designed my character for, I am a maximum offensive armsman, designed solely to do as much damage as possible and I do that bloody damn good too.
If I designed a defensive armsman then fair enough protecting would be my duty, but if your going defensive might as well do it proply and make a paladin.

So don't come here telling me what my damn duty is, I know my duty full well and its to do what i've designed my character to do to its fullest potential. Play your own characters how you want to play them and i'll play mine how I want too.

Incidently you only need shield 5 to get guard and you can still get that with 50/50/28 spec and if it really matters, just use Intercept, every armsman gets that.

Its not bullshit kagato .... Its obvious you are an offensive Armsman < Caster killer, if u can > and the others are defensive Arsmmen, but u seem to missing a point here, even if u are an offensive armsman having slam is awesome ... how many times has the caster run away from you ? or u miss a style as he is moving? ....... when u slam him .. he is dead . only way you wont kill him is if every caster turns on you .. or u get the stupid spell hibs get 9 sec castable stun :/ cast on you ....... If you slam you enemy .. whether tank/caster/healer ... u get 2 free shots .... now maybe I dunno .. is that handy ? .... well maybe not ... oh and your dead right its your charc and play him the way to want/enjoy but really all they are doing is giving ther opnion .... I suggest you try a specc with 42 shield in it for Gorre mate and then tell us what you think.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by K0nah


diff classes, diff RAs, diff resists whats to be equal? i'm looking forward to taking on a polarmsman tbh, they aint that different from heros and they dont "splat" me or anywhere near it.. get ur arse lvl'd & actually play some rvr instead of reading about it.

I've done some RvR, I'd never claim to be anywhere near a veteran, heck not even a beginner. The little I've done, some in Emain (like you need to know anything to zerg) some in Pennines, some in the Gorge. But I'm not into RvR fulltime yet...
Not that Duels have anything to do with RvR anyway.

I'm not out there constantly - but I'm enjoying PvE at the moment anyway, with a number of characters.

Also, if I could play during the day instead of being at work (and spamming these forums ) rest assured I'd have a few level 50s by now.

What I'm saying is:

Polearms will do well against dual wielders becuase your parry will be less effective, dual wielders get a bonus against the sword/shield types (can't just keep blocking).

 

[Flimgoblin]

slam is nice... but that's a lot of points...

why bother slamming them (using a big chunk of endurance) when you could be doing far more damage anyway

Or if Kagato is in a group with a shield paladin what's the use in both of them slamming? might as well maximise the damage...

phalanx/defenders aegis is a nice rear attack combo - and if that doesn't finish them the snare will stop em...

Don't get me wrong - Slam is absolutely superb, a 9 second stun is just plain evil.

But it's not _essential_

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by vindicat0r
I suggest you try a specc with 42 shield in it for Gorre mate and then tell us what you think.

The great thing about the hybrid spec is u are both defensive AND offensive. Guarding casters/healers till u get ur 9second stun then u load ur pole and lay the smack down on that fool. Does having a 9sec stun give u an edge? I dunno ask hib casters, maybe... perhaps?

 

[kestral]

You know, the game would be very boring if everyone only did their 'supposed jobs'. Armsmen protecting casters, Cleric's only healing, etc etc. Where did these ideas come from that each group has only one primary 'job' and if they don't do it they're 'bad'?

Kagato is excellent at both fighting and protecting, it's called teamwork.

And btw Vlad, you will want some in X-bow, it's very very handy for pulling. Goodluck with your new character, I hope you enjoy joining us.