9/11 Truth: Structural Failures vs. Controlled Demolitions

[CorNokZ]

Bit extreme example...

extreme in what way? If it wasn't the goverment, who was it then?

 

[Huntingtons]

ic:
From this link: http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[original post]

these are not clear pictures of a plane crash tho...

 

[old.Tohtori]

extreme in what way? If it wasn't the goverment, who was it then?

I meant that comparing the genocide of jews against two towers tobbling ain't really in the same ballpark.

 

[Yeke]

liar.

Seems some people are born plain lazy as well as ignorant.

 

[Zede]

so much yada yada this way or that.

It really dont mater a jot if this or that can be proved whole-heartedly. We live in a world of total and utter disinformation, in my opinion the perfect society to carry out something like 9/11.

Quite simply, the question is - Who controls the Oil in the 21st Century ?

I dont believe for a second the actual US government had anything to do with 9/11, to damn obvious and to easy a target for c.theories. Some bunch of fucked up neo-conservative "think tank" pulling the strings....sure. I think the US gov do know who did it all, but are to damn embarrassed to say shit as the answer is prolly to close to home......

 

[CorNokZ]

I meant that comparing the genocide of jews against two towers tobbling ain't really in the same ballpark.

I think we miss-understood eachother Mr. Seal

I never said anything about jews? Think that was you if I am not mistaken?

 

[evzy]

It really dont mater a jot if this or that can be proved whole-heartedly. We live in a world of total and utter disinformation, in my opinion the perfect society to carry out something like 9/11...

Do you or anyone else for that matter even have a clue as to how hard it would be to organise something on the scale of 9/11 and keep it quiet - and then blow up the towers just in case the planes didnt do that job... We live in the age of media now and its not all government ran, sadly we also live in the age of the internet where any idiot can voice his opinion that its a conspiracy and people will believe them with a total lack of proof. On the first page of this thread someone posted links to structural information etc and why the towers fell - not one of you has mentioned any of that because it doesnt fit in with the "conspiracy".

Can't wait til someone posts a video of how they found if you tweak the footage it shows the alien death ray hitting the towers and thats the real reason why - because the Martians are warning us not to go to Mars....... and its just as likely as the nonsense already said about 9/11...

Really winds me up, idiots banging on about this subject if you can't tell and I would put money on the majority of them being below 25,,,maybe even 21..possibly even 5....

 

[MaCaBr3]

This is an extract from a documentary called "9/11 Mysteries" and can be found on Google Video.

 

[Jeremiah]

Really winds me up, idiots banging on about this subject if you can't tell and I would put money on the majority of them being below 25,,,maybe even 21..possibly even 5....

Since there is evidence supporting both sides of this argument (Terrorist-led and "Other organistation"-led) I dont see why it should be such a dumb choice to actually question what happened. I mean, if your house went on fire, and there was evidence that someone dropped a fire bomb through the letter box but on the other hand there was evidence that you started the fire yourself, I dont see why we should automatically jump on the "Oh it cant have been me, it must have been someone else" bandwagon.

I'm all for using reason with arguments, and of course theres a strong feeling that no country would ever do something like 9/11 to themselves and so it must have been someone else. But when theres evidence to suggest that there is more than we have been told, and when the US actions after 9/11 havent exactly been of a natural reaction (remember, the US used 9/11 to pass the Patriot Act where everyone in the country lost their right to privacy - not to mention that US companies are now making fortunes "rebuilding" Iraq) I wouldnt think it would be wrong to re-examine what actually happened.

As Lamp said, we dont know 100% what happened, so everything is theory. And theories are allowed to be a bit crazy sometimes

 

[Sparx]

LOL another post about conspiracy theories with ppl posting the same arguements with the same links to websites

With the extra piece on the fuselage thing, i took time and read all of that

When would they have time to fix a supposed missile to the planes? dont you think someone at the airport may have noticed, oh if you are gonna say there never actually came from the airport, then what about the ppl who were on board those passengers on board who died?

lol

 

[Darzil]

these are not clear pictures of a plane crash tho...

Of course, if there were clear pictures, people would be saying "It's obvious it's a conspiracy, otherwise why would they have good camera's set up pointing at exactly the right place?"

Darzil

 

[tamtap]

Seems some people are born plain lazy as well as ignorant.

You have not pprovided any pictures of a plane that supposedly hit the pentagon. The only footage available is these 5 frames released by the US govt and there is plainly no fucking airliner to be seen.

Why is there no footage ? Two answers

A. There is no plane to video cus its a missle of some sort.
B. The CCTV camera was so shit it didnt record any frames of the plane?

Now some math on the CCTV for answer B:

When looking at the video, you would probably realize there is only 5 frames of video, and you would wonder, why is there only 5 frames? A US Security Camera takes 60 FPS, so if there were only 5 frames of video that means that the Boeing 757 traveled 80 Meters (length of the lawn of the Pentagon) in only 0.0833 of a second, which means the aircraft was traveling at a bit over 1000 meters a second (1KM A Second.)

100 / 60 = 1.6666 (How fast is each frame taken, considering Security Camera's takes 60 FPS)

1.6666 x 5 = 8.3333 (There are 5 frames of video)

8.3333 / 100 = 0.08333 (Convert to Milliseconds)

1000 / 80 = 12.5

12.5 x 0.08333 = 1.0416

1.0416 = KM A Second the aircraft ware traveling.

1.0416 x 60 = 62.496 (KM Per Minute)

62.496 x 60 = 3 749.76 (KM Per Hour)

3 749.76 / 1.609 = 2 330.490 (Convert to MPH)

According the government the Boeing 757 which hit the Pentagon was only traveling at 530 MPH, if US Security Cameras record at 60 FPS, and these are the only frames which the Government claim to posses, the aircraft which hit the Pentagon was traveling at over 2,000 MPH! (Over 3,000 KM). Obviously we can conclude from this that the government have taken frames out of this footage, either that or the Boeing 757 which supposedly crashed into the Pentagon manage to travel at speeds that only military aircraft can travel at. If the "Boeing 757" which hit the Pentagon was traveling at 500 MPH we know that there should be at least 20 frames of video, why doesn't the US Military/Government release these frames? What are they trying to hide?

-- taken from http://911physics.co.nr/

pwned.

Tam

 

[Sparx]

i used to work for the military and i know that sometimes you cant disclose everything, the public wouldnt be able to handle it. Not only that but by disclosing everything you also put yourself in a situation where you show your hand (card style)

If governments released everything ppl will start to know where their intel comes from etc which jeapordises the future of the countries. Its the whole need to know thing. And tbh you dont need to know.

Yes they might have stretched the truth in saying Sadam is making WMD ( i know this is straying of course but trying to make a point). But you have no idea whatsoever apart from heresay and other bolloxs what other things were happening that made US and UK go to war. IT may have been purely oil but do you have any idea the repercussions have no oil or oil thats too expensive will have on UK alone? I tell you it fucking is worth going to war for, we will be put back into the stone age if we lose our oil resources. It doesnt just effect your car you drive to work in. It effects almost everything. Where will your food come from? i'm pretty sure i am one of the few ppl on here who grew up on a farm and even then i have no idea how to grow my own food.

So i have no idea and i dont care if pentagon was staged but what i do know is there are alot more intelligent ppl working there than ppl throwing old conspiracies around here to have hindsight to see what repercussions will come about from everything

 

[Yeke]

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

fuck me first link on google.

 

[Zede]

Do you or anyone else for that matter even have a clue as to how hard it would be to organise something on the scale of 9/11 and keep it quiet - and then blow up the towers just in case the planes didnt do that job... We live in the age of media now and its not all government ran, sadly we also live in the age of the internet where any idiot can voice his opinion that its a conspiracy and people will believe them with a total lack of proof. On the first page of this thread someone posted links to structural information etc and why the towers fell - not one of you has mentioned any of that because it doesnt fit in with the "conspiracy".

Can't wait til someone posts a video of how they found if you tweak the footage it shows the alien death ray hitting the towers and thats the real reason why - because the Martians are warning us not to go to Mars....... and its just as likely as the nonsense already said about 9/11...

Really winds me up, idiots banging on about this subject if you can't tell and I would put money on the majority of them being below 25,,,maybe even 21..possibly even 5....

lol, I really really dont think it was ever meant to be kept "quiet" My point is their is sooo much media, so much possible information it is impossible to know what is real and what isnt.

Really winds me up, idiots banging on about this subject who refuse to admit anything at all is going on, and what ever it is SOMETHING is going on.

 

[SethNaket]

There are so many things wrong in most of these "scientific" websites people link to that it's amazing people actually keep linking to them.

One of the simplest is the supposed temperature of the fires. Quote from the website above:

"the maximum temperature a non-pressured hydro carbon fire can reach is 1800 FH (825 C.)"

This is WRONG. Anyone who has ever looked at a simple grate furnace can tell you so. For example, the maximum adiabatic (average without loss) temperature when burning air-dried WOOD is over 2000C. Normal operating temperature of the exhaust gases lie in 1000-1100C when burning "wet" wood (40-55% water). These fires burn at underpressure with an excess of air.

The actual temperature in a bigger fire only depends on how much energy is in the burning fuel, and how much exhaust gases + extra air the combustion heats up. Jet fuel has many times the energy of wood; Wood has a dry heating value of 19200 KJ/kg and a lower heating value (which means it accounts for moisture) of 8-12000KJ/kg. Oil/gasoline has about 40-45000 KJ/kg. This basically means that an oil-based fire can release almost 4 times the energy that a wood-based fire can. That energy can only take two forms, either an explosive form (kinetic energy) or heat. More energy => more heat => a hell of a lot more than 850C "maximum possible temperature".

 

[Lamp]

So i have no idea and i dont care if pentagon was staged but what i do know is there are alot more intelligent ppl working there than ppl throwing old conspiracies around here to have hindsight to see what repercussions will come about from everything

 

[Marc]

Blast expert Allyn E Kilshiemer, the first structual engineer on the scene after the plane had hit the pentagon (yes plane, not a missile you fckin nerds) sums it up best "how do I know a plane hit the pentagon, I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including bodyparts, OKAY?"

But yeah, it was a missile, the many eyewitnesses who said it was a passenger plane must of been bribed by the us government eh?

 

[Lamp]

lol

 

[Kaun_IA]

Actually there is one possibility that people haven't talked about, or i haven't heard of.

Fail safe, self destruction, on tall buildings inn case they need to be brought down to avoid further destruction.

It's hardly something that the goverment would tell, but it's a possibility as any.

yeah, that would sound bit logiacl... couse think of what would have happened if the building would have fallen to its side.

and the second one went the same way

 

[Lamp]

Can building fail-safe devices be triggered by external events - out of interest ?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think we miss-understood eachother Mr. Seal

I never said anything about jews? Think that was you if I am not mistaken?

Yeah, i said "extreme example" regarding my own post. About the jews even. So basicly we're either talking about other quotes or you were defending my own extreme point

About my "failsafe" theory, i believe it would work much like sending a nuke, in a smaller scale.

Let's say building A is about to tobble over, with people and firmene inside. You phone up the mayor(as these things would probably be delegated) and tell that if the failsafe isn't activated, the building might fall over on central New York. The mayor, even if it's one helluva call to make, gives the order and the building is brought down.

But it's only a possibility, no facts or anything to back it up and i wouldn't call it a "conspiracy", but actually a reasonable failsafe.

 

[tamtap]

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

fuck me first link on google.

That site is full of shit, for example the wheel they say was in the wreckage:

http://www.rense.com/general32/aedrive6.jpg

The wheel found at the Pentagon is too small to of come from a Boeing 757. If we count the amount of holes in each wheel we find.

Boeing 757-200 Wheel Has: 10 holes.

Wheel Found At The Pentagon Has: 8 holes.

Also the photo they say is one of the engines.

http://www.rense.com/general32/Damage9.jpg

Well Rolls Royce who make the engine say different:

“It is not a part from any Rolls Royce engine that I’m familiar with, and certainly not the AE 3007H made here in Indy.”

- John W. Brown, spokesman for Rolls Royce (Indianapolis)

So its defo not a 757, question is what was it ? Kind of rule out civil aircraft so that only leaves Military stuff.


Tam

 

[Overdriven]

Some people who you think are actually of reasonable intelligence get suckered into this shite all the time and it still surprises me tbh...

Wont watch it, dont need to watch it - would never get the minutes back at the end of my lifetime that i wasted on it ....

So you posted that to explain you didn't want a part of this? - I found it on a website I view alot and I liked what I saw (I like all these theories) - It's worth the watch, even if you don't care about it.

 

[tamtap]

Blast expert Allyn E Kilshiemer, the first structual engineer on the scene after the plane had hit the pentagon (yes plane, not a missile you fckin nerds) sums it up best "how do I know a plane hit the pentagon, I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including bodyparts, OKAY?"

But yeah, it was a missile, the many eyewitnesses who said it was a passenger plane must of been bribed by the us government eh?

don't put too much credence into what this US govt stooge has to say.

Summary of Kilsheimer's Lies

• Finding one of the black boxes (a major lie)

• When he arrived at the Pentagon

• That he was accompanied by his engineers on the first day

He's a poor liar.

Tam

 

[noblok]

Why would the US government crash the pentagon with a military plane and then claim it was a Boeing? They could just crash the Boeing, they have the resources for it and would leave less possibility to be discovered.

Why would the US government fly the planes in the WTC towers when they can demolish them with an explosion? If they simply exploded the towers and blamed Al-Qaeda, they'd have achieved the same effect.

 

[Icebreaker]

The problem is most people don't understand how profound the difference is between static and dynamic load. A concrete test cube might be strong enough to support 10 tons of static load, but I can easily crack it with a 5kg sledgehammer. Hit it hard enough and concrete *does* pulverise (like if you drop say a 50 story building on it). I know because I've worked at a cement/concrete testing facility and cracked many a test cubes.

Once the top part of the tower manages to break through one floor, the following floors offer little more resistance than what air resistance you would get from free-falling. I'm not saying I know for sure if the towers where demo'd or not, all I'm saying is that once it breaks through one floor it's gonna break through all of them and fast.

As for why it falls straight down, it's pretty simple. There are no horizontal forces strong enough compared to gravity to change the direction of the momentum of the falling parts much.

This is the truth. ^^

As the Planes crashed into the Towers they destroyed alot of the structure. And the burning fuel weakened the rest of it. Such Towers consist of concrete, steel and 70%-90% Air inside. As the Towers started collapsing there was no other way then straight down floor by floor.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Why would the US government fly the planes in the WTC towers when they can demolish them with an explosion? If they simply exploded the towers and blamed Al-Qaeda, they'd have achieved the same effect.

This is why i like my theory. It doesn't actually blame the US goverment of anything else then extreme safety measures.

I'm right damnit!

And i can hear the black choppers allready....either to take me away to quantaco(sp) or to their secret weapons creation facility

 

[tamtap]

LOL another post about conspiracy theories with ppl posting the same arguements with the same links to websites

With the extra piece on the fuselage thing, i took time and read all of that

When would they have time to fix a supposed missile to the planes? dont you think someone at the airport may have noticed, oh if you are gonna say there never actually came from the airport, then what about the ppl who were on board those passengers on board who died?

lol

You make a good point. I thought this as well.

If you take the arguement that some faction of the US govt organised this then who is to say those people and the original plane arent at the bottom of the atlantic. A lot of witnesses reported that the second plane to hit WTC had no windows and looked like a cargo plane.

Strange thing is it could be very easly sorted by the US govt producing the flight data recorders for all three flights but they wont/cant even though they have them.

And all this talk about supernova insta metal melting heat is bullshit as well. You can actually see people in the big hole's the planes made AFTER the crash so there was no mega fire. And the fireman on the scene reported the fires were under control.

Tam

 

[Dahakon]

Why would the US government crash the pentagon with a military plane and then claim it was a Boeing? They could just crash the Boeing, they have the resources for it and would leave less possibility to be discovered.

Why would the US government fly the planes in the WTC towers when they can demolish them with an explosion? If they simply exploded the towers and blamed Al-Qaeda, they'd have achieved the same effect.

I was thinking the exact same thing =)

There had already been bomb attacks on WTC, so if the gov wanted it destroyed, they could have just blown it up, and claimed it was another one. The guy in that video saying how it was impossible for terrorist to hijack planes past US security was having a laugh, ok, so nowerdays it would be hard to do, because of the high level of paranoia in the USA, but back then the US thought that they were too powerful to get hurt, and their security was a joke. The only theory that even slightly makes sense is Teh Seal's one, about fail safes in the building, and tbh, I think that they would be a good idea to have in buildings, as if ones goign to come down, you might as well limit the loss of life as much as possible.

However, I do also think that they USA gov. has been lying about some stuff, and has used 9/11 for their own gain. For example, it gave them a new "phantom enermy" for everyone to get scared of, so they can use politics of fear to increase their power, ie: the patriot act. They also used it to make a great deal of money for themselves and their friends, such as the war in Iraq, and the fact that it was one of Dick Chanies (sp?) old compaines that got all the contracts to rebuild the place.

One other thing that the US gov. were lying about was the level of involvement on Bin Laden, the only conection he had with 9/11 was that he part funded it, by giving $1 million to the person who planed and organised it. Oh, and all those camps in Afganistan weren't training terrorist to attack the west, but people who wanted to remove what they saw as corrupt westenised govenments in their own countries, like Egypt.