6 Soldiers Killed today RIP

[Job]

It is irrelevant to them because the public habe been carefuy manipulated not to care by a tried and tested system of propoganda and alienation..much the same as hitler did with the jews..but modern technology is undermining that approach as the truth can be found on the net and it got as far as a short term ban on the practice of drone strikes...just remember you will never ever hear the truth from a politician

 

[Raven]

Someone facepalm him, I can't do both!

 

[rynnor]

Someone facepalm him, I can't do both!

Why? What he says about the drones is true.

Edit: The reality of the drone strikes is that its easier to target peoples homes than to try and kill them when they are out and about.

Its a messy campaign though since they have poor intelligence out there so must be blowing up a lot of random people - hardly a hearts n minds job.

 

[Job]

Exactly, imagine if the Police started taking out the local drug dealer with a hellfire missile in the night, sound utterly fuckin insane...but we do it on a daily basis in Afghanistan.
Do you think the locals like us for it?

 

[noblok]

RE: Rules of engagement:

"I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children. I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business," Gibbs, the former White House press secretary, told the interviewer from We Are Change, when asked to justify "an American citizen that is being targeted without due process, without trial -- and, he's underage, he's a minor."

Unarmed kid, sitting by a campfire. Murdered. No excuses offered.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/robert-gibbs-anwar-al-awlaki_n_2012438.html

 

[Dukat]

Don't kid yourself Dukat. "Rules of Engagement" are there to make the public think war is all fluffy. But politicians favour expediency, not fairness...

I don't know about whatever ROE you've been under before, Scouse, but the ones I've followed in the past have been there for two reasons: to win firefights and to ensure the minimum loss of life.

The reason behind that, I imagine, being to ensure local civilian populations are not turned against us by 'gung-ho' tactics like the ones it seems people here think are an every day occurance.

As for UAV strikes - the self-same report you referenced says that sourcing on civilian casualties is "weak and the numbers are often exaggerated". I've seen figures that point to civilian deaths being far lower than the '10 to 1' ratio you quoted (source). My day-to-day work doesn't see me getting very near UAV's all that often (it does happen) so I will admit my experience with how they operate is somewhat limited compared to say, a UAV operator. Until we have one of there on here and willing to spill the beans I would suggest that many media sources on this subject are going to be hitting somewhere wide of the mark.

 

[Job]

Yes very wide of the mark..they only report the big hits and for a long time warring factions or just plain old jealous neighbours have used hit squads and drone strikes to even old scores.

Yes Achmed..he stole my camel and he terrorist...knows Al Queda very much..hes in tomorrow night.

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't know about whatever ROE you've been under before, Scouse, but the ones I've followed in the past have been there for two reasons: to win firefights and to ensure the minimum loss of life.

The reason behind that, I imagine, being to ensure local civilian populations are not turned against us by 'gung-ho' tactics like the ones it seems people here think are an every day occurance.

As for UAV strikes - the self-same report you referenced says that sourcing on civilian casualties is "weak and the numbers are often exaggerated". I've seen figures that point to civilian deaths being far lower than the '10 to 1' ratio you quoted (source). My day-to-day work doesn't see me getting very near UAV's all that often (it does happen) so I will admit my experience with how they operate is somewhat limited compared to say, a UAV operator. Until we have one of there on here and willing to spill the beans I would suggest that many media sources on this subject are going to be hitting somewhere wide of the mark.

It amuses me that your chosen counter source that "leans towards the neo-conservative", despite non-partisan claims, and much, much more importantly, uses data for drone strikes against targets in Pakistan, a supposed ally. When you're using drones in an ally's territory, without their permission, then comments about RoE are frankly, laughable.

 

[Raven]

I don't think CIA drone strikes have much to do with British army ROE really.

 

[fettoken]

Honestly, what are you on about?

An insult to mankind? What?

What do you think it 'stands for' then?

By reading from your previous posts and statements, clearly, you are more bent over than Aada. You guys sure get molded in the same fashion. Fucking brainwashed. Disgusts me really.

Also, have you never seen the videos from wikileaks and such? Portrays the American soldiers mentality and approach.

 

[Raven]

some*

 

[fettoken]

Excuse my outburst. I'd like to withdraw some of the previous statement; had no intention of personal assaulting you guys. I just disagree with mostly everything there is to say regarding this subject.

 

[Job]

http://englishrussia.com/2011/07/21/the-afghanistan-of-the-50s-60s/

 

[Access Denied]

RoE are going to differ slightly in reponse to the mentality of whatever nation or force is abiding by them. As far as I can tell, the American way of doing things is this: "There are civilians in that house." "So? they're sheltering a known terrorist and as such they're the enemy, order the drone strike."

Oversimplified maybe but the American mentality is gung-ho and has been for a bloody long time.

As for what Soze said about the Bin Laden raid versus the Iranian Embassy seige, they can't really be compared effectively. The Navy Seals would've been going in effectively blind in regards to who was who inside the house. I'm not saying I agree with they way they simply killed everyone they saw but I can understand it because they could safely assume that everyone there was a terrorist.

The Iranian Embassy seige on the other hand was a different kettle of fish altogether. The only people in there with guns were the hostage takers. I've read a lot about the incident and I've seen interviews with the troops who went in. The biggest difference is that there were hostages. In that instance you're going to take out the bad guys before they can harm the hostages and iirc none of the hostages were seriously harmed, none at all by the SAS themselves.

 

[soze]

The theory is that the SAS were told "no hostage takers survive" and some reports suggest that the last guy killed who had dressed as a hostage was unarmed when killed and the SAS put a grenade near his body. If true it is similar to Americans order.

 

[CorNokZ]

Fearing next February when my brother goes back to Helman. He, and all of us back home, had a huge scare last time when he hit an old Russian land mine dropped by the Taliban. Thankfully the Danish APCs have a thick layer of armor so none of them got seriously hurt.

My thoughts goes out to their families and friends. I always get a lump in my throat when I hear of fallen soldiers

Thankfully, it has quited down around Camp Price, where my brother is located. They hardly ever leave the camp and have only been on three missions so far, with not a single round being fired. He calls home every now and then to tell me how easy money it is and how great his tan is getting. Him and his buddy invested in sattelite TV, a PS3 and a flat screen to kill off time.

Denmark is pulling out of Afghanistan this August, and thank God for that. I hope he never has (read chooses) to go back to a war zone. The stress involved is too much for us back home.

 

[Job]

It must be awful..but remember statistically for a young man its safer in Afghanistan as a soldier than at home...freaky huh

 

[Raven]

What?

 

[Job]

More young men die in car crashes..drug overdoses..suicides etc at home than fighting the taliban..even as a percentage...the vast majority of soldiers dont even stub a toe.

 

[Raven]

No they don't.

 

[Dukat]

Denmark is pulling out of Afghanistan this August

No more DANCON donuts?!

First the Canadians pull out and take away Timmy Horton's, and now this.