5 years on: do you miss smoking in pubs?

[Talivar]

"Secondhand smoke also causes lung cancer, heart and lung disease in non-smokers. There is no safe level of exposure, but long-term exposure increases risk of lung cancer by 10% to 15% and heart disease by 30%. This translates into 5,000 to 10,000 lung cancer deaths and 40,000 heart disease deaths each year in the United States. Worldwide, it is estimated that exposure to secondhand smoke caused 50,000 lung cancer deaths and 379,000 heart disease deaths in 2004."

 

[Ch3tan]

there's a difference in minding and missing.

Nope, I don't know anyone, bar the few dissenters on here that mind it either. The majority of people don't care, so why should the needs of the minority be put above the majority?

 

[old.Tohtori]

"Secondhand smoke also causes lung cancer, heart and lung disease in non-smokers. There is no safe level of exposure, but long-term exposure increases risk of lung cancer by 10% to 15% and heart disease by 30%. This translates into 5,000 to 10,000 lung cancer deaths and 40,000 heart disease deaths each year in the United States. Worldwide, it is estimated that exposure to secondhand smoke caused 50,000 lung cancer deaths and 379,000 heart disease deaths in 2004."

Yeah and there's no study in the exposure threat level, just a generic "is bad". Hell, wlaking down the street "is bad" due to carfumes. If pubsmoke really was THAT dangerous, we'd have a lot more cases.

Ch3tan, don't compare personal experience to actual facts. I can counter your argument just by saying i know a lot of fok who miss it, but don't mind it. Again, as said, minding is not missing.

 

[Ch3tan]

But you are in Finland, we are talking about the UK here. Anyway, bye to this thread now toht's on his personal smokers rights mission.

 

[old.Tohtori]

But you are in Finland, we are talking about the UK here. Anyway, bye to this thread now toht's on his personal smokers rights mission.

No i'm not and it was never established that this is a "uk only" discussion.

 

[Talivar]

Isnt 379k deaths from the countrys that bother to count enough for you?. And im sure there will be plenty of studys, its not rocket science, we know what effects the chemicals in tobaco and the smoke do, we can ask which people who get lung cancer smoke or are around smokers alot and make educated estimations, based on proximity ect

 

[old.Tohtori]

Isnt 379k deaths from the countrys that bother to count enough for you?. And im sure there will be plenty of studys, its not rocket science, we know what effects the chemicals in tobaco and the smoke do, we can ask which people who get lung cancer smoke or are around smokers alot and make educated estimations, based on proximity ect

I want to know how many of those cases were exposed daily, and how many of them were only exposed to tobacco smoke during pub visits etc. THEN you can bring that up.

 

[Talivar]

No not really, all we need to know is that the smoke caused it because then anyone thats not an idiot will start to systematically remove the places of exposure, some we can like pubs and some are harder like in the open streets. You cant win this one im afraid, the scientific and medical world along with the goverments and massive % of the population have woken up to the fact smoking and second hand smoking kills, the only people left in denial are idiots like you who cling to silly round about arguments to justify your own views while at same time not having any sort of clue about what your really even saying.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No not really, all we need to know is that the smoke caused it because then anyone thats not an idiot will start to systematically remove the places of exposure, some we can like pubs and some are harder like in the open streets. You cant win this one im afraid, the scientific and medical world along with the goverments and massive % of the population have woken up to the fact smoking and second hand smoking kills, the only people left in denial are idiots like you who cling to silly round about arguments to justify your own views while at same time not having any sort of clue about what your really even saying.

Yes really. Eating at MacD doesn't kill you, but eat it 20 times a day for 10 years and it very well will cause problems. So level of exposure is very much in question.

I'm not in denial either, i know that smoking might cause problems to you and being around passive smoke all the live long day very well could also. What i don't know, so far, is how much smoke will increase the risk by any level that is considered excessive, compared to other harmful things out there. But that's neither here nor there regarding the thread, in a nutshell;

I miss smoking in pubs, but don't mind it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

By the way; there's nothing "idiotic" about smoking, if compared to a lot of other activities people do. It's a choice and a lot of people simply enjoy it.

Ofcourse you can have an opinion of it being idiotic, but opinions and assholes really.

 

[Talivar]

Ofc all depends what you regard as idiotic, for me doing something that has 17% + chance of killing me for sure or atleast giving me cancer is stupid but for others that near 1 in 5 chance might not be enough to make it seem a stupid choice.

 

[Access Denied]

I've already said it's made the air in pubs better. But now we're on the subject of second-hand smoke...

Yes it's bad for you but tbh unless you sit in a room filled with someone elses smoke 24 hours a day you get xposed to a far greater amount of carcinogenic and otherwise harmful chemicals just walking around town. I've said that before too.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ofc all depends what you regard as idiotic, for me doing something that has 17% + chance of killing me for sure or atleast giving me cancer is stupid but for others that near 1 in 5 chance might not be enough to make it seem a stupid choice.

Ofcourse considering that it's case by case, not universal 17%. But, other activities have higher risks of permanent injury, like drinking, but aren't considered as idiotic. That's what i meant by saying that it's not idiotic outside opinions

Exactly Access, that's why i think the ban(which again i don't mind...) was based on a bit of false stuffimuguffins.

 

[Chosen]

By the way; there's nothing "idiotic" about smoking, if compared to a lot of other activities people do. It's a choice and a lot of people simply enjoy it.

Ofcourse you can have an opinion of it being idiotic, but opinions and assholes really.

But remember this Toht, yes it is a choice that people make themselves. And I don't care if people wants to hurt their body that way. The real issue here, is that they are also hurting the surroundings! Passive smoking kills, and have been proven. Why should 1 guy that does not smoke and never has, take the consequences of a guy that does?

That way you can't compare smoking to other activities. You don't passively "kill" the guy next to you by eating at McDonalds xD

 

[georgie]

They had to remove it 100%, the cost to the NHS and other Healthcares for smokers has far far exceeded what is made in tax off cigerretes, so they had to change their stance and go anti-smoking,

I'd be intrigued as to where this view of yours comes from. A quick google comes back with:

It is very difficult to establish an exact figure on what smoking related
ill-health costs the NHS. However, smoking is the largest single cause of
preventable illness and premature death in the UK. It kills 106,000
people every year and costs the British taxpayer more than £1.7billion a
year in treatment bills alone. It causes 84 per cent of deaths from lung
cancer and 83 per cent of deaths from chronic obstructive lung disease,
including bronchitis.

2009-2010
Excise- £9.1B
(est) VAT- £2B
Total- £11.1B

Personally I'm eagerly awaiting a time when smoking is banned and lung cancer and lung diseases no longer happen.

 

[old.Tohtori]

But remember this Toht, yes it is a choice that people make themselves. And I don't care if people wants to hurt their body that way. The real issue here, is that they are also hurting the surroundings! Passive smoking kills, and have been proven. Why should 1 guy that does not smoke and never has, take the consequences of a guy that does?

That way you can't compare smoking to other activities. You don't passively "kill" the guy next to you by eating at McDonalds xD

Ah, but to what extent? That's the question really. Because one could argue that those insensitive car drivers out there are choosing to drive and as such, harm me who doesn't drive, with their emissions.

That's why i'd leave the "passive smoking kills" out of it, before we can see any kind of proof that, on this occasion, being in a pub that has smokers in it once a week is in any way more harmful then toxins from other sources.

 

[Cemeterygates]

I miss it in the winter, it's ok in the summer though sat in the beer garden comfortably getting sloshed.

 

[Lamp]

I maybe wrong, but I heard its illegal to smoke in the street in Denmark? Jesus, they'll be fining you for breathing air & blinking next...

 

[noblok]

I still laugh at the "they forced it on us" arguments, clearly the majority don't miss it one bit.

Because you can't force something on a minority? before the ban the majority didn't seem to mind enough to warrant smokefree pubs appearing all over the place either.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Because you can't force something on a minority? before the ban the majority didn't seem to mind enough to warrant smokefree pubs appearing all over the place either.

No you can't, just ask any african-american!

 

[chipper]

i dont think especially these days with the filters in exhausts it approaches any where near the levels of toxins that smoke contains oh thats 4000 TOXIC chemicals of which 43 are know carcinogens in. and i didnt wiki that its from a stop smoking leaflet the GF got from the NHS when she decided to quite the nasty fucking things so i take it as pretty reliable

infact a quick bit of research turns up that its 10 times more toxic than car emissions so given the choice what would you prefer to take a lung full of. put that in a room say a pub for example i think its pretty safe to say your theory is debunked.

passive smoking can kill it has been proven time and time again why you argue against it toht i dont know. so can car emissions but i would bet the majority of deaths from car emmisions are from people with underlying medical problems, that are made worse by inhaling HEAVY amounts of emissions im talking big cities not your avg local town think london hong kong new york etc.

but like always toht youll make up some sort of argument how i and everyone else is wrong

 

[Olgaline]

Here in Aarhus we have a place thats under 40 square meters, "thus smoking is still allowed " here the bartenders smoke, the owner smokes and the guests smoke.
If you enter as a nonsmoker, and dislike it, your free to find one of the other 499 places that are none smoking.

Now I dont visit the place as much since I quit smoking, but every now and then I pay a visit with my mates "also an ex-smokers"
and we have a beer or two, for good old times. And yes the smoke is anoying, yes it feels as if our lungs are being raped, but tbh,
this is one of a very few places in town where people can still come and have a drin and smoke. and so it should be!

Yet every single visit, it's unavoideble to have that one twat! that has to complain ti the bartender, ask for a window to be opended,
or just sit and constantly bring attention to themselves and how much they're suffering.'

IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL! and annoys me faaar more than the smoke ever will!

 

[old.Tohtori]

No chipper, i don't need to argue anything because you just said what i've been saying all along;

"so can car emissions but i would bet the majority of deaths from car emmisions are from people with underlying medical problems, that are made worse by inhaling HEAVY amounts of emissions"

Same is with passive smoke in pubs; the amount in random pub visits is nowhere as "murderous" as the 24/7 passive smoke that is the case in majority of the passive smoke deaths.

As for your 4000 toxins etc from a leaflet, even taking out the propaganda notes on that, pubsmoke still isn't as dangerous as inhaling it directly, which is what that toxin amount is about.

 

[chipper]

tbh it looks like you read so can car emissions and stopped reading there but whatever.

actually ive read right or wrongly feel free to link if i am wrong but secondhand smoke is more dangerous simply because you dont inhale it through any filter and take a more concentrated dose now i read that a while back and i cant back it up ill hold my hands up to that

also i would like to point out on the car emission argument that you are not sat in an enclosed space with emissions churning out and any sane person rolls there window up in a tunnel anyway before that one gets thrown in

if i had my way i would ban it in public all together and have special rooms dotted around with air scrubbers that people could go into and puff away to their hearts content and none of the toxins escape into the air

those rooms or your own home that would be it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And if i had my way, we could smoke where-ever we wanted and it would be down to the individual to either be polite to smoke outside, or for the other person to use their freedom to leave the place.

Ban the inpolite dicks(goes both ways), not the freedom.

On the ar emission, there's a shitton more of that in the air though.

 

[Chilly]

My main problem is if I'm with a group of smokers at the pub every thirty minutes (or whatever their internal timers say) they all fuck off and leave me on my todd to look after the bags and coats. Pisses me right off. It's fine in the summer of course.

 

[Chilly]

And if i had my way, we could smoke where-ever we wanted and it would be down to the individual to either be polite to smoke outside, or for the other person to use their freedom to leave the place.

Ban the inpolite dicks(goes both ways), not the freedom.

On the ar emission, there's a shitton more of that in the air though.

Problem is, you can't pass a law saying "don't be a dick". For example, most people agree than your level of trolling can be quite dickish, but you probably dont

 

[Overdriven]

Have turned into a 'half-arsed' smoker over the last year or so. Maybe 1 cig every few months now to realise why I can't be arsed with them any more (Also considering Marlboro Red is now £7+, so that's a no go.) - Stopped actually caring and just moved on with my life after a while with this, actually going out side for one is a nice break I find anyway.

Note: Didn't even realise it was 5 years ago.

 

[Talivar]

In reply to geordie those figures about the cost came from 1991, in 2009 it was revised to 5 billion purely from Direct links and does not take into account passive smoking costs and other costs like loss of earnings when someone is too ill to work ect. The main problem is as people live longer then these costs begin to multiply, especially as population grows. So at a guess the 5bn from 2009 will already be wrong and it will be higher ect.

 

[Olgaline]

A smokers pov will always clouded by thier addiction,
so for the most part it's pointless.