2H Thane Viability

[Void959]

I know the thane changes haven't been that significant in many peoples eyes, but I'm still thinking of rolling one to be used as a mainly solo but still groupable character. To take full advantage of the changes it seems that 50 hammer would be a requirement, to make use of the 175 energy DD proc, which should even hit noticably harder than levi. This style is off a parry reactional though, which would mean I'd have to spec high parry to get full advantage, ruling slam out, and making 2h more desirable.

So my question is, how do you think a spec such as 50 hammer/50 SC/27 parry/10 shield using a 2h wep would compare with one like 39 hammer/50SC/42 sheild in melee 1v1, 1v2, against solo casters, and in 8v8s?

To me it seems that the extra damage from: 2h bonus, 50 weapon spec over 50 composite, and most importantly the parry chains high growth rate plus proc, would more than make up for the loss of slam in 1v1 fights, not to mention that many people purge it. Defense will be almost as good vs 1h users, and far better against dual weilders who make up a large part of soloers. Casters could be more of a problem with no slam, however between the 1600+ range insta dds, doom hammer, and ST1 if necessary, I should be able to get to most before they can do any damage, and prevent them from kiting with these and casted DDs which will do quite decent DPS now. Groups is the big concern, from what I gather the few thanes that play are generally used as BGs, I don't plan on FGing often, but would I be totally useless as a BGer with only 10 sheild or wouldn't it make too much difference?

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Dr_Evil]

In RvR (8v8) a thane can't land Slam as often as a warrior (because of weaponskill), and most melee enemies you occur as BGer are Dual Wielders, so Parry is more reliable as defence than Block. With 50 hammer (and the New Thane patch inc) you will with ease take down any tank who tries to hit you. A warrior will still be able to take more of a pounding than a thane as a BGer, but unlike warrior the thane will kill the MA train instead of just standing there like a meatshield. If you lose Slam, you still have ST and Grapple.

 

[Zoia]

I think 50 hammer, 50 SC, 23 shield, 17 parry will be ok.
23 shield for the back pos 6 sec stun.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Ill stick to my 48SC, 39 weapon, 42 sheild, 15 parry; slam, switch to 2h and get off 3 hits before switching back again, does me nicely anyway.

 

[Septima]

Ill stick to my 48SC, 39 weapon, 42 sheild, 15 parry; slam, switch to 2h and get off 3 hits before switching back again, does me nicely anyway.

Same spec i'm using on my thane and it is a really well balanced one. No need to go for the 50 sc spec, the last dd is at 48 and it's all what you need. The 15 parry works fine but with only 39 weapon and low ws, don't expect to kill that much in melee or land a slam at first try

The 50 weapon spec can be funny to test, but low quickness+low ws+only parry as defense, don't appeal me to respec.

PS: don't roll a dworf or troll for thane: frostalf for caster thane or norse for melee one.

 

[Void959]

Aye I've gone norse 10str, 10, piety, 10 dex, I figure that should be decent for both purposes.

The 50 SC was for the new doom hammer ability, I'm not sure how often this will come in handy but I figured if I'm going 48 might as well put the extra points into it than 2-4 more in parry.

Anyway thanks for replies, I'm just glad to know it won't be too rubbish as a BGer when I do group it. Now gotta get around to levelling him and bot at the same time... zZz


Edit: If I were to go with the 23 sheild spec simply to use on casters, would the low WS mean I miss slam against them regularly, or would this only matter against meleers?

 

[xGenocidex]

Ill stick to my 48SC, 39 weapon, 42 sheild, 15 parry; slam, switch to 2h and get off 3 hits before switching back again, does me nicely anyway.

going 50sc 39 hammer 42 shield myself ^^ <3 doomhammer ... disarms thane like but still! lol - the new proc that comes off lvl 50 hammer style is 175 delve on that note also nice IF you can land it.. higher delve than levi does ^^... gonna try 50 sc out tho for doomhammer... can still use shield i think once you use doomhammer so you can still slam (unsure on that one) if that spec turns out to be worse than i think it will be i'll just respec 50 hammer 50 sc 28 parry tbh had a 2handed thane before and they can dish out nice blows 2handed especially with follow up to conquer

 

[Void959]

gonna try 50 sc out tho for doomhammer... can still use shield i think once you use doomhammer so you can still slam (unsure on that one)

I heard you can't melee at all, which means no sheild styles either, however you can cast as much as you like, which is why I think it just might be worthwhile also.

Anyway exam in 9 hours, I Really should stop trolling and get to sleep now :S

 

[xGenocidex]

I heard you can't melee at all, which means no sheild styles either, however you can cast as much as you like, which is why I think it just might be worthwhile also.

Anyway exam in 9 hours, I Really should stop trolling and get to sleep now :S

Yea ;> was reading on VN boards with trollum... i guy tested thane cast speed... very easy to get it down to 1.3 apparently.. anyway in 17 seconds the thane that was testing it did 4.2k damage over those 17 seconds with bolts (and that was without spell damage bonus) ^^

 

[Sye]

I would wait till they complete the Hybrid change before deciding a new spec as they could change it still

 

[Sigwyen]

Nevertheless it would be sweet to dust of the old gimp and make her usefull and fun again .. havent touched my thane in like 2 years i think

/Mirk

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Yea ;> was reading on VN boards with trollum... i guy tested thane cast speed... very easy to get it down to 1.3 apparently.. anyway in 17 seconds the thane that was testing it did 4.2k damage over those 17 seconds with bolts (and that was without spell damage bonus) ^^

The biggest problem for thanes is a decent template that brings in pie and +spell damage, every time I (or when I see others try) to make a temp, you either end up with a cross between a healer and warrior spec, or end up with a warrior temp with a dash of pie. This means our casting ability is dimmed by the lack of spell pool.

That chap who tested it must have done so with a decent power pool too, after about 6-7 casts I normally run out of juice, certainly after 17 seconds my battery would be dry. Testing with the max in pie and pool is one thing, a viable temp is something else! (PS, dont forget we dont get luxuries like focus on items either!)

 

[lpep]

whats a thane ?....

rolled 2 handed thane going to lvl him see how it goes.. think we r going to zerg thid first then head to 50

 

[Ixoth]

Interesting read. My thane is troll one. And is spec'ed as 42/42/48 (Hammer, Shield, SC). Maybe its time to respec..

 

[Zoia]

My old thane is still lv 48 after 3 years or so, but he's a gimpy troll.
Last night i decided to roll a frosty, since i don't have any of those. 10 str/dex/quick.
The hit points of a thane sucks, so i figured it wouldn't matter much if mine sucked a little more.

I'll most likely go for 50, 50, 23shield, 17parry.
Shouldn't be a problem to land the backpositional stun as weaponskill doesn't matter for hit/miss, unless you're trying to get it in on a BM with advanced evade.
With 23 shield i should also be able to block enough to get in the 2-part block chain in hammer.
First style has a melee spd debuff, the 2nd a 7 sec stun.
If all that fails, you can do like most of them hibbie dualwielders and strafe around to hit with the 4 sec side stun in shield.

17 parry isn't much though. Same as my skald has, but i do get in a parry style or 2 in most fights.
My thane will get more dex in it's template and with some MoParry it shouldn't be too bad.
The little extra utility 23 shield gives me, just seems better than 11 more in parry.

Doomhammer also seems nice. Looks like it hits for +/-300, pluss damage add, pluss another +/-300 from the DD.
Nice for those runners. Dooooom and if they're still alive, finish them off with a DD or two.
If anyone actually runs from a thane...

 

[Vodkafairy]

Dooooooom. Doooooooooooooooooooooooom!

If the changes stay as they are, I think thanes are very very viable. Almost makes me want to roll one, a frostalf like zoia, with 15 dex at creation. But.. skald is more tempting

 

[lpep]

got a feeling theres going to be alot of thanes roaming around ... if i remember right Rolf was 2 handed specc.. maybe someone knows how he was specced.. eithor seems to do ok, solo's alot.. be interesting to know how he is specced.......chances r we wont see the patch for a while here though so plenty of time to lvl toa out a gimp

 

[lpep]

Dooooooom. Doooooooooooooooooooooooom!

If the changes stay as they are, I think thanes are very very viable. Almost makes me want to roll one, a frostalf like zoia, with 15 dex at creation. But.. skald is more tempting

wooot coming to midgard VF ?

 

[Bonehead]

My old thane is still lv 48 after 3 years or so, but he's a gimpy troll.
Last night i decided to roll a frosty, since i don't have any of those. 10 str/dex/quick.
The hit points of a thane sucks, so i figured it wouldn't matter much if mine sucked a little more.

I'll most likely go for 50, 50, 23shield, 17parry.
Shouldn't be a problem to land the backpositional stun as weaponskill doesn't matter for hit/miss, unless you're trying to get it in on a BM with advanced evade.
With 23 shield i should also be able to block enough to get in the 2-part block chain in hammer.
First style has a melee spd debuff, the 2nd a 7 sec stun.
If all that fails, you can do like most of them hibbie dualwielders and strafe around to hit with the 4 sec side stun in shield.

17 parry isn't much though. Same as my skald has, but i do get in a parry style or 2 in most fights.
My thane will get more dex in it's template and with some MoParry it shouldn't be too bad.
The little extra utility 23 shield gives me, just seems better than 11 more in parry.

Doomhammer also seems nice. Looks like it hits for +/-300, pluss damage add, pluss another +/-300 from the DD.
Nice for those runners. Dooooom and if they're still alive, finish them off with a DD or two.
If anyone actually runs from a thane...

Hahah, so it was you I ran into last night. I was on Thunderboy :worthy:

 

[Zoia]

Hahah, so it was you I ran into last night. I was on Thunderboy :worthy:

Ah, hello there!

 

[Vodkafairy]

wooot coming to midgard VF ?

im not sure yet, but making a char on mid seems very tempting with 1.81 inc

 

[xGenocidex]

im not sure yet, but making a char on mid seems very tempting with 1.81 inc

thane alot more fun to play than skald tbh vf

 

[Void959]

I also think a skald would be a better overall soloer than thane, except the style I generally play my minstrel these days is quite like a skald anyway, so I think they'd be too similar. Also like people have said, a thane should be effective at stopping kiting casters, which would be my main concern with a pure tank such as warrior.

 

[Eithor]

My spec is 48sc, 42shield(+18), 34sword(+18) and 24parry(+18).

I RA-respec alot, a couple of months back i had moblock4 and moparry4, works good for solo pvp and make me a farming/pve monster with better defence than most warriors.
The group-utility ain't any good though, except as guard and slam bot(shield styles, slam ain't based on ws, nor str, but on the shieldspec and dex).


Atm i run around with some kind of ra-grp-utility spec, makes it harder for me to solo though, the mob1 and moparry1 ain't enough really. In groups it work alot better though.

I recently dinged lvl50 on my alt troll thane, he's hammer and i'll respec him for 50sc, 50hammer, 27parry and 10shield... Will be fun i hope

My main char/thane i'll stay almost the same spec as now, with a minor change, 50sc instead of 48 (600-700 insta dmg, 1000 range) will make it close to a iwin button, or to get that damn stealther running away with 30% hp left, while im slowed and/or meleed by other stealthers so i cant nuke down the bastard

I'll cut down on my parry instead, so my spec will look like this: 50sc, 42shield, 34sword and 20parry.

Will be possible to "frontload" from distance: insta 150dmg, rr5 200dmg(this one has been changed so it's now a dd and not a slow bolt thats possible to block or even run away from) dd/nuke 250dmg =600 dmg, this damage is moderate and without crits, if bad resists, high piety, high chance to crit, its possible to hit for about 800 dmg, and that at 1600+ range.

Now imagine 1000 range, 600 "frontloading" 2 or 3 more nukes, another 500-900 damage. Lets say that at that point you, the thane get interrupted, well use the lvl50sc-"style" DoomHammer and hit for another 600-700 dmg.


The thanes that go 48sc and don't go 50sc, will miss out some nice stuff, i promise you
Also possible to be somewhat of a "thane-bomb" close up that is: 2-handed hit, insta, insta, rr5, woc1(or 2 or 3), and doomhammer, all under 2-3 seconds, total dmg =1400-2500 dmg, depending on crits, amount of piety on thane, chance to crit/if crit, mastery of magery.

Another scenario popped into mind... You the thane get the jump/surprise on a sorc, start to nuke, and when it's almost dead, the pesky pet interrupt you, and the sorc laugh and prepare to kill youwithin 3-5 seconds with lifetaps...
Don't think so, not with doomhammer slicing through him for 700 insta dmg

I really want to stay sword spec with eithor but if sword/axe dont get dd procs as well, i'll go hammer with 50sc, 42shield, 39hammer and 6parry(probably gonna get moparry4 if so), then with each parry, Lambast will hit (hopefully ;] ) and proc with the 70dd proc as well. It will enhance the melee damage but it won't be insane (as if going 50hammer and get the 50hammer style to hit).



I think it's great that now will be more viable specs for a thane.



Ah and Zoia, if you haven't exped the new frostie of yours too far, i think that you should remake and skip the 10 pts into quickness at creation and stick them into piety instead.
Higher piety=higer damage on dd procs, on isntas, on nukes, and more power.

Also the quickness is at start 60 pts instead of a norse/dworfs 50.
I'd suggest 10str, 10dex, 10pie.

Else i'd say you'd be better off with a norse with 10dex and 15piety, then you would have: 5 less dex than a forstie, and same amount of piety as you would with the frostie (without any points into piety), but with higher str and con, and just somewhat less quickness.

 

[lpep]

whats ya thoughts on using sun wpns with the once we get 1.82 eithor ?.. would a couple thanes in rvr grp be viable ?

 

[atos]

wtf are you people on? Troll is the obvious choise for a melee thane. And the doom hammer melee damage is based off wep spec and str.

As for the dex problem. 300 dex ought to be enough for most thanes and add 10% spellhaste for pwnage. Someone said that 1% spell haste = 20dex on 300+. Not too sure about that though.

 

[grokk]

sticking

sticking with my 48/42/42 sc/shi/hamm spec, worked well when i used to play this charbak in the olde days, may look @ changing with DR though.

 

[Vell]

IMO it will be silly to not go for 50 SC with these changes. Doomhammer is the make or break of this class - without it you will be considered a gimp

 

[Zoia]

Ah and Zoia, if you haven't exped the new frostie of yours too far, i think that you should remake and skip the 10 pts into quickness at creation and stick them into piety instead.
Higher piety=higer damage on dd procs, on isntas, on nukes, and more power.

Also the quickness is at start 60 pts instead of a norse/dworfs 50.
I'd suggest 10str, 10dex, 10pie.

Else i'd say you'd be better off with a norse with 10dex and 15piety, then you would have: 5 less dex than a forstie, and same amount of piety as you would with the frostie (without any points into piety), but with higher str and con, and just somewhat less quickness.

I spent some time trying to decide where to put my points.
With the last chars i've made and leveled to 50, zerker and valkyrie, i ended up regretting my choices,
I thought my valkyn zerker would easily hit 250 quick, so i put 10 in dex. Ended up at 240 with yellow buffs.
My dorf vakyrie got 10 con instead of quick and with my current template and all the quickcap i could squeeze in, i ended up at 240ish quick. With the gimped hits/con that valkyries get, i wish i had put them in quick.

I'll probably be soloing a lot on my thane as well and will end up in melee most of the time.
With a frosty and 10 in quick, i should end up at 235 without any aug quick or quickcap.
I thought about putting 10 in piety, but figured i already had enough there as a frosty.
I might be wrong again, we'll see.

 

[Eithor]

lpep : I think the sunweapon would add extra flavour(energy-damage FTW!!!1, mohaha) yeah, however it's hard to get a real good template going for a thane, so it depends (for me anyway) if the sunbelt +sunweapon would cut it for a template.
I hate templating and such, but i'll try to look into it(hell the DoomHammer used with a 2-hand sunweapon will make the damage go up even higher )


Grokk your lambast style(+70dd proc) gonna be the hardest hitting style, the thing is that you cant get it off, if you have no parry, since you have to parry to get it off(lambast 39hammer style). So in my view you gimp you hell of a lot, to gain .. what 20 more ws and no style, and less good defence (a dualwielder cut shield/block rate in half, while parry remain the same).

Also not to bring up StormCalling to 50(to get DoomHammer), is like giving up a close to free WoC3, thats avaible each 10 second oO (500-700 insta dmg).
On top of that, the new enrgy debuff will enhance the doomhammer damage even more, as well as the lambast style.

A scenario: if you and me dueled on our thanes, you would have problem getting through my defence, while i would hit you a couple of times to get the energy de-buff to procc, then i'd just insta kill you, or close to it, and that with me have 34weapon spec and you 42, so really m8, those 3 levels extra in hammer, will kinda be your doom (lol your very own doomhammer of self-gimping ;] ) ...

Hehe sry, didn't purposly try to sound mean, i just want for you to get the most of your thane

ATOS:
Don't take it the wrong way Atos, i'm not telling people to take, say frosties over trolls, just explained my thinkings about the frost-thane and what in my mind might work best for it (my brand new troll thane should back me upon this :] ). If my main would be a troll thane, i'd just have a slightly different approach with him, same goes for dworf and norse.
Enhance the strength of the race/class (i'll get back to this further down).

Yeah i read that too, about the dex and 10%castingspeed, but pure casters often got 8-10% to castingspeed and 375-400+ dex, so i think the more dex the better(almost more important for 2-handed 50hammer specs, for added defence as well).
The difference from 320 up to 344dex on my thane(with 5% castspeed each time) made quite a difference, although that was with 3.0 nuke, now we'll have 2.4 so it won't be the same, but i still think that each extra dex is a very good thingy


ZOIA:
With the "right" gear (i switch around alot atm, since i really dont have a template... :/ ) i have 242/243 quickness, granted some qui +cap in there, pretty sure it ain't capped though and no aug qui. Hardcap being 250, those 7 or 8 points of quickness aint gonna matter alot.

I'm one of those who believe that to enhance a race (and class) natural strength as first priority, to give some kind of "edge", although as a thane i think dex and piety to be the most important stats to enhance since str is the stat that "grow" over time(i got 5pts into str at creation, and with augstr2 i have 385str, thats not bad for a frostie), piety is the third and dex don't raise at all.

frosty: 10str, 10dex, 10piety
troll: 10str, 10dex, 10piety
dworf: 10con, 10dex, 10piety
norse: 5str, 5con, 10dex, 10piety
That ^^ would be me advice for those who think to roll a new thane

Then again, i'm not all that fond of going the "fotm" race/spec/style of playing/etc/etc... and wouldn't want people to believe blindly in what i say/think