2 Handed paladin - 1.83

[Lorimez Shadowblade]

Hi all

With new paladin love coming in 1.83, I've finally dinged 50 on my Paladin (Ty Graendel )

I'm now going to spec him for rvr and wondered whats the better spec to go for? I figured he's not really going to be for damage but slam with 2 handed could be a rather useful addition. Or is s + s still the way forward?

Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.

Cheers

/bow

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Hi all

With new paladin love coming in 1.83, I've finally dinged 50 on my Paladin (Ty Graendel )

I'm now going to spec him for rvr and wondered whats the better spec to go for? I figured he's not really going to be for damage but slam with 2 handed could be a rather useful addition. Or is s + s still the way forward?

Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.

Cheers

/bow

Please no S/S on Paladins. You can BG as a 2H Paladin and with 1.83 you should be on the train anyway and leave the BG'ing to Armsmen or Reavers (yes Reavers). You do damage as a 2H Paladin.

50 2h, 46-48 chants, rest in thrust/slash/crush, preferably crush and use 1h weapon for follow-up stun, preferably battler with 10% to hit bonus.

That's the way I'd spec it, if you need any template suggestions, let me know, I have tons of self-made 2H templates.

 

[Demon2k3]

manisch that's great. if you have an 2h template with malice that is good-great i would like to see it.

 

[Puppet]

Please no S/S on Paladins. You can BG as a 2H Paladin and with 1.83 you should be on the train anyway and leave the BG'ing to Armsmen or Reavers (yes Reavers). You do damage as a 2H Paladin.

50 2h, 46-48 chants, rest in thrust/slash/crush, preferably crush and use 1h weapon for follow-up stun, preferably battler with 10% to hit bonus.

Im sorry to say, but you're probably never been more wrong then here :<
First of all, there's as many arguments to go S/S as there is to go 2H (in 1.83). This depends heavily on the used group-setup.

For pure BG'ing by a paladin, I would still prefer S/S-setup. Being close to your support, it allows you to slam and peal off ''stuff'' of your support/casters. Despite common belief, guard CAN be useful there aswell.

If you decide to go offensive, its for 2 reasons only: To offer Celerity and Endurance to the other tanks. You do not have Banelord, you do not have massive damage on your own either. Going 1H crush for the stun is also a weird advice, as Two-Handed offers ALSO 2 stuns in the line:

Doubler (behind target, target snared) ---> Sun and Moon (7 sec stun)
Onslaught (to side of target, target snared) ---> Two Moons (9 sec stun)

Both are easy to land if you're in an assist-train, and offer more damage and utility then Bludgeon/Contusion do from 1H Crush.

Battler in 1H slot is fine advice (for the /use2) but the proc is almost useless in RvR, it offers like 0.5%-1% more chance-to-hit, which will not be noticed in FG RvR.

Slam AND Two-Handed spec is probably the worst spec possible next patch. Paladins dont have the spec-points to do that. Theres simply no reason at all to spec like that in 1.83, all you do is gimping yourselves (eg. no End5, no Red Celerity, not 50 2H-spec, horrible variance till RR7+ etc)

 

[Rellik]

for rr7+ a hybrid spec is viable

you can get red celerity and slam with about 44ish 2-h iirc.


but i would not go hybrid until rr7+ and even if you did i whould still say that straight forward 2-h spec whould be better since hybrid spec offers you so little in a full group.


but solo hybrid is still a nice way too go imho

 

[Pirkel]

good stuff

What he said

 

[Smellysox]

Slam/2hnd spec lori till you get higher realm rank , full two handed rr9 + when you got nice ra`s to support it , pallas aint damage dealers never seen the need to go two hand as they hit as hard as a wet fish hence my first comment but the way the game is changing in 1.83 a group option will be to have a pala on assist train :l

 

[Thadius]

but the way the game is changing in 1.83 a group option will be to have a pala on assist train :l

Thought Id never hear that...

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Im sorry to say, but you're probably never been more wrong then here :<
First of all, there's as many arguments to go S/S as there is to go 2H (in 1.83). This depends heavily on the used group-setup.

For pure BG'ing by a paladin, I would still prefer S/S-setup. Being close to your support, it allows you to slam and peal off ''stuff'' of your support/casters. Despite common belief, guard CAN be useful there aswell.

If you decide to go offensive, its for 2 reasons only: To offer Celerity and Endurance to the other tanks. You do not have Banelord, you do not have massive damage on your own either. Going 1H crush for the stun is also a weird advice, as Two-Handed offers ALSO 2 stuns in the line:

Doubler (behind target, target snared) ---> Sun and Moon (7 sec stun)
Onslaught (to side of target, target snared) ---> Two Moons (9 sec stun)

Both are easy to land if you're in an assist-train, and offer more damage and utility then Bludgeon/Contusion do from 1H Crush.

Battler in 1H slot is fine advice (for the /use2) but the proc is almost useless in RvR, it offers like 0.5%-1% more chance-to-hit, which will not be noticed in FG RvR.

Slam AND Two-Handed spec is probably the worst spec possible next patch. Paladins dont have the spec-points to do that. Theres simply no reason at all to spec like that in 1.83, all you do is gimping yourselves (eg. no End5, no Red Celerity, not 50 2H-spec, horrible variance till RR7+ etc)

I do know the 2H line, thanks. 1H Crush stun is okay when you solo as a 2H user. I do know guard, intercept and BG and that you can divide it on 3 players.

I'd like to know why I am so wrong? How many good groups out today do run with many tanks? Almost none. Against the common 1-2 tanks nowdays 2H BG will do it and in my opinion Arms and Reaver are better BG'ers as they can still do damage while having slam unlike the Paladin.

This ain't classic.

 

[Puppet]

I do know the 2H line, thanks. 1H Crush stun is okay when you solo as a 2H user. I do know guard, intercept and BG and that you can divide it on 3 players.

I'd like to know why I am so wrong? How many good groups out today do run with many tanks? Almost none. Against the common 1-2 tanks nowdays 2H BG will do it and in my opinion Arms and Reaver are better BG'ers as they can still do damage while having slam unlike the Paladin.

This ain't classic.

If we're talking about best 1vs1 specs, in current patch S/S. Perhaps next patch 2H, rather unsure still about that. You lack alot of defense as 2H paladin, and defense is quite important in 1vs1. Obviously your DPS will raise quite abit with Celerity next patch and 2H, where 1H doesnt benefit all that much.

In group-RvR going for crush for the 1H-stun is silly as I explained above. Besides, even in 1vs1 I dont get it why people would use that. Its not thát hard to strafe in either Onslaught, or stick/backoff in a Doubler. Next hit a stun, same result as Bludgeon-chain, except you do more damage in the process.

Intercept, guard and bodyguard u can theoretically spread over 3 people, but if that works practically, your group is playing really bad (as it requires 4 players to be within 350 radius). The big advantage of Guard however is that it works instantly and doesnt require a stationary caster.

Ive never been a big fan of 2H paladins, so ofcourse my view is abit lob-sided. But dismissing any other spec except your own (as you did) is rather silly. Especially considering it will be quite hard for the 2H-paladin to be in the action all time close enough to provide celerity.

2H-Paladins will be alot better if they get Banelord given to them in the upcoming patch, aslong they dont have Banelord you give up a Banelord-slot for a mediocre damage-dealer.

 

[Puppet]

for rr7+ a hybrid spec is viable

you can get red celerity and slam with about 44ish 2-h iirc.


but i would not go hybrid until rr7+ and even if you did i whould still say that straight forward 2-h spec whould be better since hybrid spec offers you so little in a full group.


but solo hybrid is still a nice way too go imho

You're wrong:

Assuming RR7+ and 77 auto-trained points:

44 Two-Hand
44 Chants (red celerity)
33 Slash (50 modified Wyrd-spec)

leaves 31 points for shield. As you see, not nearly enough to have slam.

For soloing I would never go Hybrid personally as paladin. You will be either lacking chants or 1H-spec/2H-spec (reducing your damage) with pathetic defenses. Pure 2H-spec and Parry for defense aint bad, hybrid is almost in all cases of soloing bad. Doublespeccing-price is too high to allow hybrid-spec on pala.

 

[asyveth]

auto train a pally gets u 144pts as u auto train in 2 things shield and slash so double train points.

 

[Jai13]

auto train a pally gets u 144pts as u auto train in 2 things shield and slash so double train points.

its chants and slash

 

[grizzy]

I specced my pally 50 2h , 48 chants ,32 clash and im very very satisfied, im actually very supprised with my dmg output have seen hits close to 700 on cloth without crits (PS cant wait till next patch! xd ) gogo 2h imo.

and the temp i use , well it isnt the best but it was quite cheap for me cuz i had most of the items from my old temp:

LOKI Build Report
Class: Paladin
Level: 50

Dual Wield
Item Utility: 775.0
Build Utility: 835.0
Useable Utility: 834.3
TOA Utility: 277.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Statistic
Strength: 99/99
Constitution: 97/99
Dexterity: 0/75
Quickness: 86/85
Intelligence: 0/75
Piety: 0/75
Charisma: 0/75
Empathy: 0/75
Hits: 308/344
Power: 0/25

Resistance
Body: 25/26
Cold: 25/26
Heat: 23/26
Energy: 21/26
Matter: 24/26
Spirit: 23/26+5
Crush: 21/26+2
Thrust: 26/26
Slash: 22/26+3

Skill
Crush: 4/11
Slash: 11/11
Thrust: 4/11
Two Handed: 11/11

Cap Increase
Strength: 24/26
Constitution: 24/26
Quickness: 10/26
Hits: 144/200

TOA Bonus
Style Damage: 9/10
Melee Damage: 7/10
Melee Combat Speed: 9/10

Chest (Eirenes hauberk):
Imbue: 20.0
Strength: 15
Slash: 6%
Thrust: 6%
Strength (Cap Increase): 5
Melee Damage: 4
Style Damage: 4
Utility: 34.0
TOA Utility: 50.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Arms (Crafted):
Imbue: 37.0/32 (Quality: 100)
Two Handed: 3
Slash: 3
Constitution: 28
Cold: 9%
Utility: 66.7
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Head (Crafted):
Imbue: 37.5/32 (Quality: 100)
Quickness: 28
Hits: 52
Cold: 7%
Heat: 7%
Utility: 59.7
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Legs (Crafted):
Imbue: 37.0/32 (Quality: 100)
Two Handed: 4
Slash: 4
Heat: 9%
Body: 7%
Utility: 72.0
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Hands (Maddening scalers):
Imbue: 20.0
Constitution: 15
Quickness: 15
Melee Combat Speed: 3
Melee Damage: 3
Quickness (Cap Increase): 5
Constitution (Cap Increase): 5
Hits: 40
Utility: 30.0
TOA Utility: 50.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Feet (Crafted):
Imbue: 37.0/32 (Quality: 100)
Cold: 9%
Energy: 7%
Heat: 7%
Quickness: 25
Utility: 62.7
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Right Hand (Magma malice(2h)):
Imbue: 20.0
Strength: 15
Constitution: 15
Hits: 40
Strength (Cap Increase): 5
Constitution (Cap Increase): 5
Hits (Cap Increase): 40
Style Damage: 5
Utility: 30.0
TOA Utility: 55.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Neck (ACN):
Imbue: 45.0
Crush: 10%
Thrust: 10%
Body: 10%
Spirit: 10%
Utility: 80.0
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Cloak (Flowing antalya shawl(ml7)):
Imbue: 25.0
Strength: 15
Constitution: 15
ALL melee weapon skills: 4
Strength (Cap Increase): 6
Constitution (Cap Increase): 6
Melee Combat Speed: 2
Utility: 40.0
TOA Utility: 34.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Jewel (Gem of moirai):
Imbue: 12.0
Spirit: 7%
Strength (Cap Increase): 8
Constitution (Cap Increase): 8
Hits (Cap Increase): 64
Melee Combat Speed: 2
Utility: 14.0
TOA Utility: 58.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Belt (Demon bone belt):
Imbue: 36.0
Hits: 40
Body: 8%
Matter: 8%
Spirit: 6%
Energy: 6%
Utility: 66.0
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Left Ring (Ring of torrents):
Imbue: 38.0
Crush: 11%
Slash: 10%
Thrust: 10%
Utility: 62.0
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Right Ring (Ring of silent oblivion):
Imbue: 41.0
Constitution: 24
Strength: 24
Energy: 8%
Matter: 7%
Hits: 32
Utility: 70.0
TOA Utility: 0.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Left Wrist (Ceremonial bracers(qui)):
Imbue: 22.0
Quickness: 18
Hits: 40
Slash: 6%
Quickness (Cap Increase): 5
Hits (Cap Increase): 40
Utility: 34.0
TOA Utility: 20.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

Right Wrist (Bracer of rain):
Imbue: 36.0
Strength: 30
Matter: 9%
Hits: 64
Melee Combat Speed: 2
Utility: 54.0
TOA Utility: 10.0
PvE Utility: 0.0

 

[Demon2k3]

that's an nice template.

 

[Andrilyn]

I specced my pally 50 2h , 48 chants ,32 clash and im very very satisfied, im actually very supprised with my dmg output have seen hits close to 700 on cloth without crits (PS cant wait till next patch! xd ) gogo 2h imo.

Yep, been on the receiving end of a 2h Pally with theurg haste + celerity and it's not fun being hit for 700ish damage at cap speed

 

[grizzy]

give more of these

 

[grizzy]

hmm lol i just realised it was a brittle guard i hit bleh

 

[Puppet]

auto train a pally gets u 144pts as u auto train in 2 things shield and slash so double train points.

Slash and Chants, yeah. However, that requires you to be a total leech during levelling up (which is ofcourse possible). And even then, the extra 77 points only give u 2 more shield-spec, still no access to slam.

That template is rather nice, tho Im kinda puzzled why you would want so much CON-overcap, then to loose all that gained HP by missing 56 hits in your template flat-out :O

 

[Puppet]

hmm lol i just realised it was a brittle guard i hit bleh

lol was about to say that BTW, your Strength is rather low, isnt it? My Ranger has more STR oO

 

[Lorimez Shadowblade]

Thanks all for posting but I'm still none the wiser!

Fortunatley my template allows me to go 2 handed or slash, so I think I'll play around with the idea of being a slammer and go 2 Handed as my main.

Thanks again for input!

/bow

 

[Golly]

basically, you cant have slam and dps in 2h form

well not without going 35ish chants and having yellow instead of red, thus nerfing half the point of being a pala

imo if you want dps go 2h- if it doesnt suit then just go back to s/s

btw how is that temp cheap- demon bone and flowing shawl arent "cheap" nor is the silent ring of obliv

its a decent temp tho

 

[grizzy]

and the temp i use , well it isnt the best but it was quite cheap for me cuz i had most of the items from my old temp:

fu ss , dont u remember how i pwn u or do i have to show it to u again ? its usually 338 but the guy with the bot forgot to equip some buff item, other than that, i think the pally has gimp starter stats (15 con and 10 dex iirc) and no i dont think 338 is so little for pally

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Hmm, don't like the template, for a FAS template it has inferior ToA bonuses and lacks hits, while the resis might look nice, crush is a bit too low. If you are a resist fan I can give you a 25-26% resis template with better ToA bonuses and a bit more hits.

Don't know how rare the Ring of Silent Oblivion is, but I assume it's rare, the resists on it neglate the high utility so I'd say the ring has its value, but only when it fits perfectly in a template.

Over the time I have made like twenty Pole/2H templates including one with 350 hits and 50 AF while having 101str/con and 80 quickness and 44 dex (so you end up with 75 dex in 1h mode for better slam and block/parry) but zero energy/spirit and low matter resist, yet with the recent changes and Thanes getting Leviathan like styles with energy procs I think the game moves to capped melee/body/cold/heat resists and atleast 15+ in energy/spirit/matter again for tank templates so I stopped the extreme approaches.

It's easier to make a Pole/2H template with a champion weapon than with Malice, but Malice proc is quite powerful in solo and group action and the arrogance can turn fights too when solo, so I guess Malice is the way to go as a 2H Paladin.

From my little experience from playing my former Armsman I know that dex must not be neglated if you want to block/parry and eventually land slam, so I give this also a priority when making tank templates and try to have some dex even when in 2H mode, so it's easier to get 75 dex when in 1h/shield mode and have some imbue place left for high shield/parry for bodyguard or solo action.

I also like GoLM in any tank template, not for the mezz block, but for cure rezz sick, sometimes you don't get a perfect rezz in fight and you can cure it your own and it also lowers your waiting time when solo and your buffbot hasn't the ML to cure it.

I'll start to work on a new Armsman soon and I don't have a final template for it but the work in progress template I might actually use is something like this (I know it has some rare stuff in it, but most of it I can farm on my own with ML10 Convoker Sorc and a decent buffbot. Half-Ogre, planing to use AugQuick3 to come close to 250 quickness):

Two-Handed Configuration:
Build Utility: 751.3
Useable Utility: 743.7
TOA Utility: 299.0

Statistics
STR:107/101 CON:102/101 DEX:43/75
QUI:80/80 INT:0/75 PIE:0/75
CHA:0/75 EMP:0/75
Hits:324/320
Power:0/25
AF:0/50

Resistances
Body: 27
Cold: 26
Heat: 26
Energy: 13
Matter: 18+5
Spirit: 13
Crush: 25
Slash: 25+3
Thrust: 24+2

Skills
Crush: 11
Slash: 11
Thrust: 11
Polearm: 11
Two Handed: 11
Staff: 11

Bonuses
Style Damage: 11
Melee Damage: 9
Melee Combat Speed: 11
Fatigue: 5

Chest (Eirene's Hauberk):
Imbue: 20.0
15 Strength
5 Strength Cap Increase
6% Slash
6% Thrust
4 Style Damage
4 Melee Damage
Utility: 34.0
TOA Utility: 50.0

Arms:
Imbue: 37.5/28 (Quality: 99)
13 Constitution
25 Quickness
9% Slash
9% Heat
Utility: 61.3
TOA Utility: 0.0

Head:
Imbue: 37.5/28 (Quality: 99)
16 Quickness
11% Cold
5% Crush
9% Heat
Utility: 60.7
TOA Utility: 0.0

Legs (Legs of the Subjugator):
Imbue: 24.5
2 Melee Combat Speed
10 Strength Cap Increase
3 ALL melee weapon skills
19 Strength
19 Dexterity
Utility: 40.3
TOA Utility: 30.0

Hands (Maddening Scalars):
Imbue: 23.0
18 Strength
18 Quickness
5 Constitution Cap Increase
5 Quickness Cap Increase
40 Hits
3 Melee Damage
3 Melee Combat Speed
Utility: 34.0
TOA Utility: 50.0

Feet:
Imbue: 36.0/28 (Quality: 99)
9% Body
9% Cold
7% Energy
7% Spirit
Utility: 64.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Two-Handed (Malice's Axe):
Imbue: 20.0
15 Strength
15 Constitution
40 Hits
5 Strength Cap Increase
5 Constitution Cap Increase
40 Hits Cap Increase
5 Style Damage
5 Fatigue
Utility: 30.0
TOA Utility: 65.0

Neck (Imsety's Necklace of Dread):
Imbue: 31.0
9% Crush
21 Quickness
24 Constitution
4 Constitution Cap Increase
32 Hits Cap Increase
Utility: 48.0
TOA Utility: 16.0

Cloak (Flowing Antalya Shawl):
Imbue: 26.0
16 Constitution
16 Strength
4 ALL melee weapon skills
6 Strength Cap Increase
6 Constitution Cap Increase
2 Melee Combat Speed
Utility: 41.3
TOA Utility: 34.0

Jewel (Gem of Lost Memories):
Imbue: 19.0
10 Constitution
28 Hits
4% Body
4% Matter
2 ALL melee weapon skills
2 Style Damage
2 Melee Damage
Utility: 39.7
TOA Utility: 20.0

Belt (Fadrin's Belt of Havoc):
Imbue: 14.5
48 Hits
2 ALL melee weapon skills
48 Hits Cap Increase
2 Melee Combat Speed
8 Constitution Cap Increase
Utility: 22.0
TOA Utility: 38.0

Left Ring (Zahur's Ring):
Imbue: 40.0
6% Energy
6% Spirit
6% Body
6% Cold
6% Matter
60 Hits
Utility: 75.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Right Ring (Leviathan Ring of the Defiance):
Imbue: 40.5
8% Thrust
8% Matter
8% Body
44 Hits
8% Heat
Utility: 75.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Left Wrist (Cyclone Bracer):
Imbue: 38.0
11% Crush
10% Thrust
10% Slash
2 Melee Combat Speed
Utility: 62.0
TOA Utility: 10.0

Right Wrist (Bracer of Physical Conflict):
Imbue: 40.0
64 Hits
24 Dexterity
24 Constitution
24 Strength
Utility: 64.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Not sure if I'll use Battler in 1h, maybe some alacritous RoG or just crafted stuff.

Hope that made some sense, any critique, suggestions are welcome.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Ah yeah, I don't like SoM because so many people fight only when it's up and seeing the SoM-zergers makes me puke (kiddin' ).

 

[BlackrazoR]

Get a huge sword and bash people :worthy: .

Manisch that is an awesome template, mainly because it is similar to my own Armsman template but slightly better. Although getting hold of Flowing Antalya Shawl is not the easiest thing to do .

 

[grizzy]

well the temp costed me a ml7 cloak and plate parts and SCing, i really cudnt be aresd to PvE more after playing WoW for so long and intense to make the temp perfect.
rest of the items i had from TLW times (way long ago) and demon bone belt i got very cheap.
Manis temp is nice but i think that max matter is a must for 2h pally but i wudnt use the temp cuz i cba to pve for it
oh well...

 

[Konah]

Battler in 1H slot is fine advice (for the /use2) but the proc is almost useless in RvR, it offers like 0.5%-1% more chance-to-hit, which will not be noticed in FG RvR.

actually battler as 2h is fine advice.

2h line is full of low-bonus-to-hit styles (atm) and pally is a low ws class anyways. pally doesnt need to have malice cos he wont, or shouldnt, be trying to solo anything in fg rvr. everyone else in the train already has malice, 100% guaranteed, and u can only malice them once...

with malice as 1h when he plays interrupt he has chance of procing on them, as 2h when hes going for dmg with battler he has more chance of actually connecting with the styles (once it procs).

 

[RaZieL SoulReaver]

i will probly stay s/s never failed me yet

 

[Demon2k3]

i'm going with an 2h pally spec as this 502h 35 chants 34 crush and 30 parry. for both good defensive and offensive capabilites aswell as crush for weapon swap 6 sec stun so i get back or side chain off.

and how much is the price tag on your template manisch as i plan to use it.