1.88j

[Golena]

It's really a hidden nerf. The most reliable way to kill an afk caster was with double crit shot, most enemies are too slow to get back to the keyboard once they realize they are being shot at.

This is all I can think you meant, since it's my understanding that anyone was "crit-shot" immune if they moved.

What is going to be very dangerous now is groups of 2 or more archers. It might be a nerf for the EU peeps with their "thou must only ever solo on a stealth class or be banished to hell forever" mentality but probably a boost for anyone grouping with them.

 

[Thadius]

Tipp and Aimm anyone?

 

[Tesla Monkor]

This is all I can think you meant, since it's my understanding that anyone was "crit-shot" immune if they moved.

What is going to be very dangerous now is groups of 2 or more archers. It might be a nerf for the EU peeps with their "thou must only ever solo on a stealth class or be banished to hell forever" mentality but probably a boost for anyone grouping with them.

The reshuffling of the pro's and con's on critshot results in a different kind of critshot, better in one situation, but much worse in the rest. It's great if you can get three archers together so you can instantly take down one caster (though with the last nerf, you mght need four or five). Great. But any three casters with range can do that, too. Hell, three -Thanes- can take out a caster just as fast.

Critshot has been made into a very different beast.

- Extensive damage nerf.
- Must shoot from stealth
+ Can hit targets being bodyguarded, BT'd, Brittled.
+ Can hit moving targets

And not unimporantly, we lost the ability to pierce-pop PBT and Castable BT. Only critshot (from stealth) and powershot (with a 6s hardcapped drawtime) can pierce BT. That's downright horrible - imagine mass RVR with a PBT class with crocring. That's going to be nasty.

I suppose that you can critshot a caster, use FZ on the caster, restealth and critshot him again, but that only works on Runies and Wizards. Still, that's a rather pathetic tactic when you're trying to your your classes' alpha strike ability.

 

[aika]

This is all I can think you meant, since it's my understanding that anyone was "crit-shot" immune if they moved.

What is going to be very dangerous now is groups of 2 or more archers. It might be a nerf for the EU peeps with their "thou must only ever solo on a stealth class or be banished to hell forever" mentality but probably a boost for anyone grouping with them.

If you ever played an archer you will be surpirsed how many ppl don't move even after the third arrow, and just try desperately to /face and qc something. Hell I once managed to get 4 critshots on some caster who was in group and thought his holy DI will save him so he didn't even bother to move.

 

[Flimgoblin]

...but Flim, critshot ONLY fires from stealth, and yes it goes through but doesn't break, so its a case of critshot, then normal shot (brittle), normal shot (bubble), then another before you can hit again, either that or use the SIX SECOND draw on power shot to break them.

f*cking useless - can't double crit etc, but as Tesla said, im tryin not to rehash all the sh*te we've had dumped on us, its all covered elsewhere, especially on the critshot forums.

For once, i'm glad that GOA are a bit behind on patches, this ones a killer for archer class

Or you could critshot, rapidfire*2 to break the defences then back to normal shots...

Or critshot followed up by a powershot and hope you get it off before they turn and see you.

Though to be fair powershot is probably more useful in the pbt-flinging fight you mentioned...

You could critshot from 2k range, run, stealth, critshot, run, stealth, critshot, run, stealth etc. etc. at the moment they can just redo their shields to block the critshots, post-patch it's not an option - unless they have some healing they're dead soon enough.

Darzil - reports were of people hitting 1100 damage before crits but that might have been people with noAF buff.

not seen any good test logs of the latest changes yet (it was sneaked in at the 11th hour) but it critshot is anything near PA then it's PA at range from any direction without lag screwing it up etc.... something I'm sure the assassins would love.

I imagine it'll take a few patches for things to settle down - people will find the best new tactics for their archers and then mythic will boost/nerf abilities.

To be fair the Pendragon testing environment (even with the bzillion RR13 boosted toons on it this patch) is never going to match a proper live server so it's kind that the US players are beta testing the archery changes for us

 

[Imgormiel]

To be fair the Pendragon testing environment (even with the bzillion RR13 boosted toons on it this patch) is never going to match a proper live server so it's kind that the US players are beta testing the archery changes for us

In this instance I have to agree, I just hope that this is not the end of it and that they do indeed make adjustments. Else, I see alot of what remained to be archers changing templates to melee or qtd for good

 

[Azathrim]

But any three casters with range can do that, too. Hell, three -Thanes- can take out a caster just as fast.

The problem was, that 2-3 archers could stand hidden and coordinate a triple crit-shot ambush on a caster in a passing group. After killing, they would have a very good chance at getting away scot free with the new speed spells and the surprise effect.

This would create a situation where you could fear archers going in small groups, randomly picking off single members in groups without the group being able to retaliate.

I belive that's the reason for this nerf.

 

[Darzil]

The problem was, that 2-3 archers could stand hidden and coordinate a triple crit-shot ambush on a caster in a passing group. After killing, they would have a very good chance at getting away scot free with the new speed spells and the surprise effect.

This would create a situation where you could fear archers going in small groups, randomly picking off single members in groups without the group being able to retaliate.

I belive that's the reason for this nerf.

Exactly, which is why the requirements for critshot were wrongly changed.

The trouble is, that reducing the damage to make it impossible for 2-3 archers to surprise kill a caster, is also making impossible for 1 archer to kill a caster, unless said caster is seriously afk.

What I don't understand is that if DI is down my lone RR4 Fire wiz can bolt a caster in a full group to death from surprise (keep window/coming over a hill/bridge tower window etc), or two could with DI up, but when 2-3 archers can do it from stealth, and then get slaughtered, it's overpowered ?

What is now going to happen is that archers are going to have to group up and do their multiple critshots from stealth, because it's the only way to kill things. Or they are going to refuse to play this 'supposedly lame' playstyle, and quit or play other characters.

For some odd reason many archers don't see this as a fix to the issues they've had which have left them near the bottom of the rp lists for a couple of years.

Darzil

 

[Azathrim]

A RR4 firewizard cannot bolt from stealth. Speed shout away and restealth ... in essense, the group have a chance to retaliate and avoid the wizard.

 

[Darzil]

A RR4 firewizard cannot bolt from stealth. Speed shout away and restealth ... in essense, the group have a chance to retaliate and avoid the wizard.

He can, however, bolt from very hard to see. Target whilst standing beside window, step into window, bolt-bolt-bolt, step aside again. By the time the other clients have picked up his change of position, it's pretty likely he's already out of sight.

Don't you need to be out of combat for speed shout ? I'm not sure as I've not used it. If not, if this is the problem, making it so, so that the archer finds it harder to get away would seem more sensible than stopping them being able to kill things unless they stealth zerg more ?

Darzil

 

[Azathrim]

Being near a tower includes the risk of someone nuking from a window. You know this as a player running in the frontier and you can avoid the towers.

You cannot avoid some archers standing stealthed in the middle of nowhere. Nor can you see them at a distance (unlike the tower) and thus take your precautions.

 

[Bahumat]

Just to check something. If 10 archers all aim crit shot at someone, when the first person fires, the opponent is in combat. I thought you couldn't shoot someone with a Crit if he was already in combat?

Please forgive my ignorance, not played in aaaagggess and nodoubt this patch has remedied that!

 

[Darzil]

You cannot avoid some archers standing stealthed in the middle of nowhere. Nor can you see them at a distance (unlike the tower) and thus take your precautions.

Heh.

WTB two or three other scouts to stand in the middle of nowhere on the offchance that we can do simultaneous crits on one person in a fg, get lucky with the 30% miss rate, and them having no DI up, and then get zerged

If you're in a fg and someone gets sniped, you rezz, field buff, and you're ready to go. It's not that unusual that you have to do that in fg combat.

In my opinion, stealthers are part of what is out there. It's an rvr zone, shit happens. Being invulnerable except to other full groups isn't fun for me when I'm in one. Why does 'died in an rvr zone' only apply when soloers whine. Three archers sharing the rps from one kill, whilst 8 people share the rps from 3 doesn't seem an issue to me.

Darzil

 

[Azathrim]

Darzil, I agree... stealthers is part of the game.

My guess is though, that Mythic thought the snipe setup I described to be relatively easy with little to no chance of retaliation - and thus incredible popular.

That's at least the case some TLs have made and probably why it got changed.

 

[anioal]

A RR4 firewizard cannot bolt from stealth. Speed shout away and restealth ... in essense, the group have a chance to retaliate and avoid the wizard.

nope, but he can still get the jump, bolt-kill, then eventually flee to the closest tower or simply die richer with 2k+ rps.

an archer doesn't have the luxury of doing 2k+ dmg in less than 3 seconds. he can instead do 700dmg with critshot, then 1.5 seconds later kill a brittle, another 1.5s to kill the bubble then he has to use the speed burst + phaseshift to escape the loltaps while hoping that someone else will kill his target thus earning him some rps.


even so, i'm looking forward to spec my ranger 50bow-mos5-moc3 and eventually get a kill versus an assasin or a hunter every 10 minutes.

poor archers

 

[Flimgoblin]

Just to check something. If 10 archers all aim crit shot at someone, when the first person fires, the opponent is in combat. I thought you couldn't shoot someone with a Crit if he was already in combat?

Please forgive my ignorance, not played in aaaagggess and nodoubt this patch has remedied that!

they removed that bit, critshot works on anyone, just need to be stealthed to fire it.

 

[Darzil]

they removed that bit, critshot works on anyone, just need to be stealthed to fire it.

But only in patch 1.88 in the US, hasn't hit us yet.

Darzil

 

[anioal]

Just to check something. If 10 archers all aim crit shot at someone, when the first person fires, the opponent is in combat. I thought you couldn't shoot someone with a Crit if he was already in combat?

Please forgive my ignorance, not played in aaaagggess and nodoubt this patch has remedied that!

nope, as it (still) is now, you cannot crit a moving target or a target that actively swing weapons (aka is in melee combat with someone else).

a caster is in combat when he's nuking someone else, but he can still be crited by many archers / critshots

 

[Bahumat]

Thanks guys

 

[Takhasis]

For once i can honestly say, GOA, please PLEASE take as LONG as you want before patching to this P.O.S**t patch 1.88.

Every archer class i know on US servers, on critshot forums, and on VN are all crying about how bad archery is in PvP now. Seemingly critting orange con mobs in PVE for 900+ but in rvr on a 50 for 300-500 is just sh*te.

 

[censi]

these sorts of changes would in my minds make archery viable.

your going to be a natural archer now with the merging of BC.

hunters get the best of this by a long long way... I thinking a hybrid hunter would be one awsome mofo of a class to play...

Crit shot caster from range. rapid fire BT off. run away stealth.. crit shot set pet... rapid fire... moc... maybe FZ... u got phase shift to counter any retard mode shit he may have...

dunno would have to test but peeps tend to moan a lot... sounds like positive changes to me.

PD is something u would never spec unless u were an archer that didnt use bow (what kind of idiot would play like that!).... the point of these changes is to make archers use there bow and be archers.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

these sorts of changes would in my minds make archery viable.

your going to be a natural archer now with the merging of BC.

hunters get the best of this by a long long way... I thinking a hybrid hunter would be one awsome mofo of a class to play...

Scouts still have the advantage, not hunters. Because of long draw timers on certain shots, the amount of end used and the fact you have to spec 50 bow to get the best damage or risk loosing 20% off your cap, the BC line for the pet isnt really viable, as both sword and spear hunters need 39 to get a reasonable wepaon style, while slam is more beneficiary than any spear style.

It has indeed made us archers again tho, our bow damage is now comparable to a lot of casters, and with the damage variety we now enjoy we can hurt everyone even through their abs and OPd sheilds and silly buffs that made arrows hit for less than 100 damage a peice.

There is already a lot of whine, and archers are currently FOTM and out enmass in the US, heck even solo at times (lol), but for each whine there is the same reply that we now do the same kind of damage a tank/catser/hybrid could do all along without having to go instantly into melee and use our weak kiting abilities. Solo we can finally use archery to take people down a peg or two before switching to melee, and are getting some decent 1v1 action.

The changes they made are good in some respects, but I still cant help feel its taken away some of the essence of the classes.

 

[Tilda]

Archery is now slightly insane on the US. Was in a fg last night and in one fight we killed 12 archers. A little later we charged a keep to suicide and there were (that we counted) 29 scouts unstealthed and shooting us.

 

[WiZe^]

Archery is now slightly insane on the US. Was in a fg last night and in one fight we killed 12 archers. A little later we charged a keep to suicide and there were (that we counted) 29 scouts unstealthed and shooting us.

Guess everyone whana try the new archer skills

 

[Thadius]

Guess everyone whana try the new archer skills

Ive tried it now, its easier to level unbuffed as a archer type

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Ive tried it now, its easier to level unbuffed as a archer type

With 0 end use on standard shot, its great for leveling.

 

[Imgormiel]

With 0 end use on standard shot, its great for leveling.

Swift pve to CL 10 then

 

[Thadius]

With 0 end use on standard shot, its great for leveling.

Yea, I just power shot mobs till I run out of end then chain pull with standard shot

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Yea, I just power shot mobs till I run out of end then chain pull with standard shot

I use PS to pull, then standard all the way, no need to take my bb along then

 

[RS|Phil]

Hm... Since I don't play an Archer in US I'm just going on what people are saying and have seen, and the amount of times I've been one shot as a caster already. :-/

But anyway, it seems like everyone hates the changes, not just the Archers, everyone. Archers are whinging about the loss of damage, PD, and basically being made into casters that need a bow to cast spells I'm pissed off because of the fact my casters bladeturn means nothng when you've got two practiced archers /assisting, and tanks are pissed at the inc modifications to block rate vs people who sit 50 miles away and shoot them


They should just put it back because no one is happy with it, instead of just a minority of people being nerfed not being happy.