1.65I - VP change!!

[Driwen]

belomar but 5 vp's within 1 sec at bolt range on same target is kinda annoying?
VP on one wizard in a group is fair, but it is technically possible to run around with 5 wizards in 2fg and then use it. Would be nice if they could make it that 1 or 2 is still ok but after that you are immune for the effect for a small period as there is almost no real response to it (and no baod isnt a response on vp).

 

[iluvatur]

ok, as long as hibs can only use one baod every 30 mins

 

[hotrat]

They should've left AoM additive and made the resist buffs and BAoD multiplicative.

Agreed.

75% resist or whatever it is you get with baod is still insanely powerful as well. A caster rarely gets to cast a nuke let alone have it do 75% less damage than it should.

Also if resist buffs were multiplicative you would still get 38% (with a 16% buff, and 26% base resist) compared to 42% before, hardly much difference. All resists should be multiplicative !

 

[kirennia]

ok, 5 wizards do 1 VP each. So there goes 1 healer, maybe 2 healers grp insta. They then insta stun, mezz over it and the hib/mid group can pick apart an extremely mage heavy group with ease.

I don't mean VP is the only thing they've got cause it sure as hell isn't but the way people are talking, it's as if they actually believe wizards are going around insta killing 17fg's with PURELY VP.

 

[old.Xanthian]

lol hardly even a nerf, tbh, VP is shite anyway never been hit for more than 400 with it, it just seems to interupt for eons.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Belomar
Um. It's an AoE DD, meaning that the effects are instant so it can't "stack".

But its still unbalancing, the fact that sometimes when an alb group comes into site i have to use group 100% insta heal before any of the groups are engaged in combat shows that it isnt balanced, wiping 80% of the entire groups HP at bolt range is not balanced.

Then take that to the next level ie relic raid where you get x amount of VP wizzies who all get 1 target and unleash it with the possibility of killing extreme amounts, which has been shown via pics.

 

[arrakeen]

Originally posted by Rollie
But its still unbalancing, the fact that sometimes when an alb group comes into site i have to use group 100% insta heal before any of the groups are engaged in combat shows that it isnt balanced, wiping 80% of the entire groups HP at bolt range is not balanced.

Then take that to the next level ie relic raid where you get x amount of VP wizzies who all get 1 target and unleash it with the possibility of killing extreme amounts, which has been shown via pics.

still you rip em apart after and you only need the 100% heal if more then one fires VP and imho thats fair enough..
One vp is not near 80% not even in the center.

I have never been in a group where vp have been a big threat.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by arrakeen
still you rip em apart after and you only need the 100% heal if more then one fires VP and imho thats fair enough..
One vp is not near 80% not even in the center.

I have never been in a group where vp have been a big threat.

ive had it about 3 times now where we have run into alb groups and been instantly dropped to around 20% hp per member due to synchronised VP, now i have two options, insta group heal or spread heals, its gonna take me 2 spread heals to get that hp back or 1 insta.

That is a one problem and unbalancing imho, but the main problem comes with larger scale raids (RR) when many VP wizzies use assist to wipe out vast amounts of people which has happened on quite a few servers.

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56106070&replies=103

 

[arrakeen]

mabey its a problem in big scale RvR i dont know, but in fg vs. fg if a group runs with wizards enough to REALLY hurt a group with VP i think its fair enough, since in the 30 mins where they aint active you will probaly win 90% of the time.

imho vp is ballanced just bring the runie trap to same lvl

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by arrakeen
mabey its a problem in big scale RvR i dont know, but in fg vs. fg if a group runs with wizards enough to REALLY hurt a group with VP i think its fair enough, since in the 30 mins where they aint active you will probaly win 90% of the time.

imho vp is ballanced just bring the runie trap to same lvl

Like i said the main problem is on larger scale raids when multiple VP wizzies assist, with the possibility of killing extreme amounts of people with a 700 radius insta.

It should be changed to non-stackable or diminishing returns imho to avoid those kind of situations.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Rollie
But its still unbalancing, the fact that sometimes when an alb group comes into site i have to use group 100% insta heal before any of the groups are engaged in combat shows that it isnt balanced, wiping 80% of the entire groups HP at bolt range is not balanced.

This is not the normal tune we're used to hearing from Mid and Hib healers, usually they say things like "yeah, we're so uber, usually I don't even have to cast even spreadheal once", and, in regards to VP, that "it's a free GP". But then, when it comes to the possibility of nerfing it, the tune changes.

I have no special attachment to VP myself but I would not put it on a par with the really great RAs (like BoF, SoS, GP, and PR).

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Belomar
This is not the normal tune we're used to hearing from Mid and Hib healers, usually they say things like "yeah, we're so uber, usually I don't even have to cast even spreadheal once", and, in regards to VP, that "it's a free GP". But then, when it comes to the possibility of nerfing it, the tune changes.

Well i dont say none of the above, i say how i feel on VP from personal experiences against it, on its own its a nifty RA and i presume fun to use in the right situation, problem comes with stacking it.

Originally posted by Belomar

I have no special attachment to VP myself but I would not put it on a par with the really great RAs (like BoF, SoS, GP, and PR).

I agree its not as good as these, but these are the realms main ra's

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Rollie
It should be changed to non-stackable or diminishing returns imho to avoid those kind of situations.

But I don't see how this can be done in terms of what the game "can do" -- prevent you from using VP once someone else has used it within a specific radius? Damage is not "tagged", i.e. the game does not keep track of what inflicted specific damage, so I can't see how they would introduce diminishing returns either.

Anyway, in regards to this patch in general, I don't like it that they are doling out the single line respecs at this point. It sounds to me like they are content with the patch and are thinking about making it live. And still no "sweeping resistance changes" in sight, casters are just as f*cked as before, and to top it all off, they killed off the last of us with the resistance debuff nerf.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Belomar
But I don't see how this can be done in terms of what the game "can do" -- prevent you from using VP once someone else has used it within a specific radius? Damage is not "tagged", i.e. the game does not keep track of what inflicted specific damage, so I can't see how they would introduce diminishing returns either.

I dunno how this would be implemented but a way to stop stacking VP would be nice

Originally posted by Belomar
Anyway, in regards to this patch in general, I don't like it that they are doling out the single line respecs at this point. It sounds to me like they are content with the patch and are thinking about making it live. And still no "sweeping resistance changes" in sight, casters are just as f*cked as before, and to top it all off, they killed off the last of us with the resistance debuff nerf.

The patch didnt effect me in anyway but i feel for thanes, yet another patch goes by and they are still a class with absolutely nothing in terms of group viability

Casters as a whole are having a hard time, and tbh i cant see mythic ever fixing the whole resist system.

 

[arrakeen]

Its pretty wierd if they nerf the resist debuff and aint making a overall change to resists, its like saying casters where overpowered before lets nerf em abit.

Imho resist debuff was the only way a caster group could work, now they nerfed it so after resists etc the duration will only last a few dd's

 

[Divinia]

Originally posted by adari
Is this new resist system out yet? Did I miss something lol?

 

[Kallio]

Originally posted by arrakeen
Its pretty wierd if they nerf the resist debuff and aint making a overall change to resists, its like saying casters where overpowered before lets nerf em abit.

Imho resist debuff was the only way a caster group could work, now they nerfed it so after resists etc the duration will only last a few dd's

yeah, I agree. Rm groups CANT work anymore because of that nerf...

 

[Merl]

Very lame that they find the time, to nerf VP and Resist debuffs, but cant spare a few mins to cap resists

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

Originally posted by belth
They should've left AoM additive and made the resist buffs and BAoD multiplicative.

exactly - nerfing aom is the completely wrong way to do this - the big problem is not a realm ability that gives 3% resists per level (and that noone has beyond level 3) but the 24% resist buffs... gj mythic

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
exactly - nerfing aom is the completely wrong way to do this - the big problem is not a realm ability that gives 3% resists per level (and that noone has beyond level 3) but the 24% resist buffs... gj mythic

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by kirennia
ok, 5 wizards do 1 VP each. So there goes 1 healer, maybe 2 healers grp insta. They then insta stun, mezz over it and the hib/mid group can pick apart an extremely mage heavy group with ease.

I don't mean VP is the only thing they've got cause it sure as hell isn't but the way people are talking, it's as if they actually believe wizards are going around insta killing 17fg's with PURELY VP.

it does 300 damage on everyone in the group, so you just did 12000 damage how exactly are you gonna heal that with a few insta heals? That is offcourse when its only 1fg, but vs 2fg it will be less effective as their train will be longer not the to mention a zerg. But 1500 damage on one person might kill a few people. Anyway albs then have to face the problem that they got 5 wizards in their group and might still loose that fight even with such a big starting damage.
Now 5 vps wont kill 17 fg's but it will deal a hell of alot of damage on them which might decide the battle before it actually begun, just like 2fg's can wipe out 10fg's with pbaoe and ae mezz (and a lot of lagg).

 

[old.Ramas]

Mythic would argue that it isn't necesssarily a AoM nerf, they'd argue that you could view it as AoM reducing the effectiveness of items/buffs resists, rather than the other way around.

They'd be talking nonsense of course because items/buff resists have no opportunity cost, that is, the capacity that items/buffs take up on your character cannot be used by anything else.

And it's items/buff resists that need the nerf more than AoM/BAoD.

What I would do....

- Create seperate multiplicative categories for natural+item resists, buff resists, and RA resists.

- Modify the final resistance total so that once over 35% diminishing returns kick in, 2 percentage points are needed for 1 effective resistance point.

- Make AoM have a base value of 6% per level.

So, under my plan a typical case today....

(26% items) + (24% buff) + (MoA 2) = 56% resist.

Becomes...

Item Resist = 26%
Buff Resist = 24%
RA resist = 12%

Multiplies to total 'multiplied delve resist'....

1- (1 - 26%) x (1 - 24%) x (1 - 12%) = 51% resist

Modified for points over 35%....

51% multiplied delve resist becomes a final effective resistance of 43%.

If you hadn't boaught AoM II in this case your effective resistance would have been 39%. So it's a 4% effective gain rather than 6% as today. The real benefit however, would be in an example where you are running without resist buffs, but with AoM II.

In that case today....

Item resist = 26%
Buff Resist = 0%
RA resist = 6%

Total effective resist = 32%

Under my plan....

1- (1 - 26%) x (1 - 12%) = 35%

No modification for points over 35 is required, and AoM II in this case would be adding 9% resists rather than 6% as it is today.

Under this plan there might be a need to bump BAoD up to about 45% to account for my diminishing-returns-over-35% rule.

 

[old.anubis]

well, we have stacking pbae, why cant we have stacking vp?

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by old.anubis
well, we have stacking pbae, why cant we have stacking vp?

because pbaoe isnt an insta and not on 1850 range?

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by old.anubis
well, we have stacking pbae, why cant we have stacking vp?

Why don't birds have lazer eyes and shit atom bombs? I mean it's been years since the first nuclear fallout....

 

[old.anubis]

Originally posted by old.Nol
Why don't birds have lazer eyes and shit atom bombs? I mean it's been years since the first nuclear fallout....

why there are so many idiots on hib? i mean it's been two years since mythic created the game

 

[parzi]

ive seen vp used vs relic raid forces on lyonesse, and since in such situations most ppl dont have 100% hp all the time etc, maybe theres some dot too and stuff, some vp's fired at the same time can wipe a shitload of ppl and make relic raids fail.

sure thing in 1fg its not very great. but not that the radius reduction matters much there anyway.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by old.anubis
why there are so many idiots on hib? i mean it's been two years since mythic created the game

It's in our nature, we get terribly irritated by stupidity and it makes us a bit snappy...

 

[belth]

On the VP thing... Midgard melee's should no longer be able to attack same target during a 1 minute perioid and Hibernian mages should not be able to cast on same target during a 1 minute perioid, if you want VP to be non-stacking, etc... Sound good? k, good that we're thinking alike.

On the resists-thing... I'd rather go with this kind of multiplicativity:

26% base+3% racial+6% AoM2, gives you 35% resists... Then get a resist buff, it adds 24% of your current resists, bringing you to 35%*124% for a total of 43% resists. With just BAoD and no resist buff, it'd be 47% - with both 35%*159% for a total of 55% or 35%*124%*135% for 58%... Effectively giving you diminishing returns without having to do any fancy stuff like making each 2% worth 1% after a certain treshold.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by belth
On the VP thing... Midgard melee's should no longer be able to attack same target during a 1 minute perioid and Hibernian mages should not be able to cast on same target during a 1 minute perioid, if you want VP to be non-stacking, etc... Sound good? k, good that we're thinking alike.

yes im sure 10 middy tanks would wipe out 50+ppl from bolt range instantly, oh wait i forgot the savage can