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Solid
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- #31
Ahh well, guess they r still gimped then 
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~Mobius~
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- #32
oh man who specs summoning
that suz
that suz
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gama
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- #33
The shamy DD is on a timer.... the same timer as the bolt :/
so they just fixed a bug we have been complaining about (and probably made the DD'd dmg less than the same lvl bolt....)
all i want is the DoT to be insta cast on a 25/30 sec timer, the ae dot to be ground target, and a DD NOT on a timer
(insta heals would be nice too)
so they just fixed a bug we have been complaining about (and probably made the DD'd dmg less than the same lvl bolt....)
all i want is the DoT to be insta cast on a 25/30 sec timer, the ae dot to be ground target, and a DD NOT on a timer
(insta heals would be nice too)
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old.Lianuchta
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- #34
Funny patch this 1.51, it seems that Mythic's finally pulling their finger out and trying to balance out all the classes.
This Area Targetted DD thing might make us Voidsters more usefull in groups as well if it does decent dmg to multiple targets
And siege merchants at the gates is kinda nice too
This Area Targetted DD thing might make us Voidsters more usefull in groups as well if it does decent dmg to multiple targets
And siege merchants at the gates is kinda nice too
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cHodAX
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- #35
Wish they would give my Theurg a onceover, our TL has had almost no time to perform his duties in the last 5 months so none of our issues have been addressed. It is now almost a year since the last time the Theurg spell lines were looked at and rebalanced. In that time we have had the buffer absorb spells and I believe we get a useless bolt in 1.50
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old.CreepingDeath
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- #36
im a 48 sm, and SM certainly isnt gimped atm
it owns in rvr with drain doing tonnes of dmg and being a fast cast AND healing me
rez being in summoning tho.. nobody specs summoning
and doing it just to get a rez is going a bit far, u would end up a bit gimped in RvR without being max darkness.
our best weapons are pbaoe mez and drain - both in darkness
pbaoe DD sounds cool, will be able to go max dark, and get the 3rd DD.
and finally some insta cast thing! insta cast ae debuffs, makes em viable in RvR
usually dont get time to cast em
shame i wont be playing by the time this patch comes, too many other games are here / coming!
it owns in rvr with drain doing tonnes of dmg and being a fast cast AND healing me
rez being in summoning tho.. nobody specs summoning
and doing it just to get a rez is going a bit far, u would end up a bit gimped in RvR without being max darkness.
our best weapons are pbaoe mez and drain - both in darkness
pbaoe DD sounds cool, will be able to go max dark, and get the 3rd DD.
and finally some insta cast thing! insta cast ae debuffs, makes em viable in RvR
usually dont get time to cast em
shame i wont be playing by the time this patch comes, too many other games are here / coming!
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old.Ebeneezer
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- #37
I should have guessed it was too good to be true...1.51H
Bastards!
Bastards!
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old.ViscountCharles
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- #38
The whole point of putting the SM res on the pet-buff line is to make it LESS useless (and the pet damage shield is vastly improved under the 1.51 patch anyway). Not sure it's enough to make me spec that line, given that you have to spec very high to get the rez. If it were around 20th level ...
The instant debuffs are a very good thing IHMO. Makes Suppression more viable too. So at some point in the future, Darkness will be supplanted as the ONLY viable choice for SMs, and simply be as the designers intended - one of the three viable spell lines
The instant debuffs are a very good thing IHMO. Makes Suppression more viable too. So at some point in the future, Darkness will be supplanted as the ONLY viable choice for SMs, and simply be as the designers intended - one of the three viable spell lines
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old.CreepingDeath
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- #39
speccing both dark and supp only give u 1 extra debuff each.
dark = 250 ae quick/dex debuff
supp = 350 ae str/con debuff
supp also gives heal (which drains sm health also) which can be quite crap as I only have 700 health to give in the first place, and thats with about +150 with items
the dmg shield u mention, u cant move or do anything while that is in effect.. so no so nice what ever they do to it.
dark = 250 ae quick/dex debuff
supp = 350 ae str/con debuff
supp also gives heal (which drains sm health also) which can be quite crap as I only have 700 health to give in the first place, and thats with about +150 with items
the dmg shield u mention, u cant move or do anything while that is in effect.. so no so nice what ever they do to it.
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Roo Stercogburn
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- #40
Having an SM as my main, if these SM additions come along this century it'll be a really good addition to the jack-of-all-trades caster class. The lack of ability to rez has been a bit of a logic gap in the class since we see dead people most of the time
Glad to see shammies get nasty too, I know a few would like to be more offensive (in fighting terms, not personal terms) and now they get their chance.
Only thing I'd like to see in additon to rez for SMs (pbae dd is nice but was never really worried about this for RvR) is a kind of focused spirit sense - i.e. if the SM stands still and concentrates he can detect steathers that get close, though it uses up power while he's doing it. No idea if it should be insta or have a casting time. Stealthers that get close should get some kind of warning. "The hairs on the back of your neck stand up" kind of thing. It means that SMs can actually help sniffing them out, rather than slogging around while the high speed classes do the proper hunting. Also means that an SM can protect a group of peeps in a limited area... though it makes them vulnerable to area mez to balance it out. Not sure if this has wider game balance issues or would just make it more interesting. Stealthers get nerfed a lot and not sure if this would just be one more thing to make their lives harder.
I see the SM mainly as a kind of support character who relies on being devious, rather than directly damaging the enemy until its already useless, and this I feel would be more in line with the character (certainly, if you were roleplaying the char). And before someone spams me by pointing out you don't have time for these subtleties most of the time in RvR battles, yeh I know
One thing about adding lots of abilities to the various classes, while making life way better for more experienced players, it can make the game a lot harder for peeps to pick up and increases the amount of time for peeps to learn how to get the best out of the teams and characters they have. Not saying if this is good or bad, its just an observation.
Glad to see shammies get nasty too, I know a few would like to be more offensive (in fighting terms, not personal terms) and now they get their chance.
Only thing I'd like to see in additon to rez for SMs (pbae dd is nice but was never really worried about this for RvR) is a kind of focused spirit sense - i.e. if the SM stands still and concentrates he can detect steathers that get close, though it uses up power while he's doing it. No idea if it should be insta or have a casting time. Stealthers that get close should get some kind of warning. "The hairs on the back of your neck stand up" kind of thing. It means that SMs can actually help sniffing them out, rather than slogging around while the high speed classes do the proper hunting. Also means that an SM can protect a group of peeps in a limited area... though it makes them vulnerable to area mez to balance it out. Not sure if this has wider game balance issues or would just make it more interesting. Stealthers get nerfed a lot and not sure if this would just be one more thing to make their lives harder.
I see the SM mainly as a kind of support character who relies on being devious, rather than directly damaging the enemy until its already useless, and this I feel would be more in line with the character (certainly, if you were roleplaying the char). And before someone spams me by pointing out you don't have time for these subtleties most of the time in RvR battles, yeh I know
One thing about adding lots of abilities to the various classes, while making life way better for more experienced players, it can make the game a lot harder for peeps to pick up and increases the amount of time for peeps to learn how to get the best out of the teams and characters they have. Not saying if this is good or bad, its just an observation.
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Roo Stercogburn
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- #41
On the subject of speccing summoning to get rez, maybe you don't have to? I've got high level shield spells way beyond what I've specced the suppression line to be, and maybe this will be the case with the rez spell as well? Also, who's ever specced enough to get Spirit Champion and you don't see a high level Spirit Master without one
I'm guessing and shooting in the dark but it makes sense
I'm guessing and shooting in the dark but it makes sense
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old.ViscountCharles
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- #42
Roo, there are two halves to each spell line. They have two different names - Darkness & Sprit Dimming for example - but are two halves of the whole.
The first half is level dependant - so ALL casters of that class get the spells as they level up. Your spiritmaster shields are on the Suppression line, but the level-dependant part, so when you are high enough you get the spell automatically - no training required.
The second half of each line is opened up only by spending skill points. This gives access to "better" spells than the level-dependant part of the list. The spec level also affects the damage variance across BOTH halves of the line - spec in Spirit Dimming will vastly imrpove your Dark spells' damage variance; if you don't spec in it, the level-dependant damage spell is mostly useless at high levels due to the wide damage variance.
Unfortunately whilst the shield spells are on the level-based side of the Supp list, Rez will be on the specialised side of the Summoning list - and the vast majority of Spiritmasters will not want to spend enough training points to get to 31 on what is regarded as the weakest class list.
The first half is level dependant - so ALL casters of that class get the spells as they level up. Your spiritmaster shields are on the Suppression line, but the level-dependant part, so when you are high enough you get the spell automatically - no training required.
The second half of each line is opened up only by spending skill points. This gives access to "better" spells than the level-dependant part of the list. The spec level also affects the damage variance across BOTH halves of the line - spec in Spirit Dimming will vastly imrpove your Dark spells' damage variance; if you don't spec in it, the level-dependant damage spell is mostly useless at high levels due to the wide damage variance.
Unfortunately whilst the shield spells are on the level-based side of the Supp list, Rez will be on the specialised side of the Summoning list - and the vast majority of Spiritmasters will not want to spend enough training points to get to 31 on what is regarded as the weakest class list.
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SilverHood
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- #43
you do realise that roo is lvl 40+?
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Roo Stercogburn
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- #44
Charley, not saying you're wrong, just musing on the ability of SMs to get their paws on something that is so beneficial to the group aspect of the char. Useful as the rez ability is, no SM in their right mind is going to spec summoning just to get it. Since groups almost always ask SMs to unsummon their pets for XP hunts (because apart from the xp hit, most SMs I've noticed don't have a sufficient level of control, soz all, its definately something I've seen, guilty from time to time myself), the entire spell line is valid only if your destiny invlolves you being Mr. Napolean Solo... and then the rez ability isn't exactly useful, since the entire group dies in one kill, and you can't rez yourself (well, probably... that throws up an interesting discussion in itself - self rezzing SMs, perhaps at the cost of xp...nah, would drive everyone else crazy - imagine a char class that died in battle, prayed to Hel, then woke up behind you, nice dawn of the dead touch, but imbalanced as, um, hel).
I'm struggling to think of a less useful spell in the entire game than the pet damage shield, a spell that does limited damage to mob, requires you to stand still and do nothing and has precisely zero RvR application (no enemy is going to let the pet batter them while the SM stands motionless and prone) - not many peeps really want to spec that and lets face it, its the debuffs and so on that make your pet able to hit a mob most of the time when solo.
The rez ability does nothing for the spirit enhancement line (if indeed thats where it goes). You want to be able to rez ... you'll still be a healer/shammy, since the line is fairly useless (except as pointed out, to peeps that only want to solo and do PvE). To spec that as an SM is an amazing self-nerf.
If the line included buffs/minor heals you could share with group members and not just pet... then it would become viable. As its stands, you're unlikely to see any SMs suddenly speccing Summoning. 1 rez ability against Direct Damage spells or serious debuffs. No competition really.
In my opinion of course
I'm struggling to think of a less useful spell in the entire game than the pet damage shield, a spell that does limited damage to mob, requires you to stand still and do nothing and has precisely zero RvR application (no enemy is going to let the pet batter them while the SM stands motionless and prone) - not many peeps really want to spec that and lets face it, its the debuffs and so on that make your pet able to hit a mob most of the time when solo.
The rez ability does nothing for the spirit enhancement line (if indeed thats where it goes). You want to be able to rez ... you'll still be a healer/shammy, since the line is fairly useless (except as pointed out, to peeps that only want to solo and do PvE). To spec that as an SM is an amazing self-nerf.
If the line included buffs/minor heals you could share with group members and not just pet... then it would become viable. As its stands, you're unlikely to see any SMs suddenly speccing Summoning. 1 rez ability against Direct Damage spells or serious debuffs. No competition really.
In my opinion of course
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old.ViscountCharles
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- #45
Sorry - I think we misunderstood one another back there.
I thought that Roo was wondering if we could get the spec spell without speccing - we can't. Of course, Roo knows all about the difference between the two spell-line types - I know Roo in-gmae, and he knows his stuff (which is why I was a little surprised at his comments above about whether we HAD to spec summoning to get the spell).
There are plenty of players who have achieved high levels WITHOUT knowing important stuff, but that's a topic for another day ....
FWIW, I agree that SMs OUGHT to get resurrection on the level-based spell line, particularly if the idea is to put us on an even footing with the other realms. But Summoning also needs to be improved drastically. The pet damage shield is getting improved, but it remains a bit rubbish so long as it is focus-based. The self-damage shield is an invitation to a kicking, and the buffs are, well, just buffs. I WOULD spec summoning if it meant getting the res, maybe a spell that cured rez sickness, and some other funky new spell - but not as it stands under 1.51H.
I thought that Roo was wondering if we could get the spec spell without speccing - we can't. Of course, Roo knows all about the difference between the two spell-line types - I know Roo in-gmae, and he knows his stuff (which is why I was a little surprised at his comments above about whether we HAD to spec summoning to get the spell).
There are plenty of players who have achieved high levels WITHOUT knowing important stuff, but that's a topic for another day ....
FWIW, I agree that SMs OUGHT to get resurrection on the level-based spell line, particularly if the idea is to put us on an even footing with the other realms. But Summoning also needs to be improved drastically. The pet damage shield is getting improved, but it remains a bit rubbish so long as it is focus-based. The self-damage shield is an invitation to a kicking, and the buffs are, well, just buffs. I WOULD spec summoning if it meant getting the res, maybe a spell that cured rez sickness, and some other funky new spell - but not as it stands under 1.51H.
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Roo Stercogburn
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- #46
Like the idea of being able to cure rez sickness in the field, thats a good one. Would make for an interesting combo when teamed with healer. Might be more appropriate for shammies to get that one but I definately like the idea. Healers get the speed buff to get to rezzes faster, shammies get the ability to get their buddies back in the fight quicker. Since some shammy abilities are based on regen, this seems quite logical.
Would make the shammies feel all loved up again too
All we need to do now is get something for Thanes to keep them happy. Think GOA will spring for a batmobile or something?
Solidmobile, would have to be blue probably not black
BTW nothing beats a thane at a bbq when you're having trouble lighting the charcoal - runies just blow the whole bbq stand up, SMs just drain the energy from the flames and shammies just get burnt while they try to figure out what that bright stuff is. And I'm TOTALLY fed up with hunters asking what temp we do the glacier giant at. Don't even get me started on healers that rez the burger halfway through cooking it.
/y "Lurikeen onna stick, 20s, and that's cutting me own throat!"
Er, I'd better give this thread back now I guess... starting to babble
Would make the shammies feel all loved up again too
All we need to do now is get something for Thanes to keep them happy. Think GOA will spring for a batmobile or something?
Solidmobile, would have to be blue probably not black
BTW nothing beats a thane at a bbq when you're having trouble lighting the charcoal - runies just blow the whole bbq stand up, SMs just drain the energy from the flames and shammies just get burnt while they try to figure out what that bright stuff is. And I'm TOTALLY fed up with hunters asking what temp we do the glacier giant at. Don't even get me started on healers that rez the burger halfway through cooking it.
/y "Lurikeen onna stick, 20s, and that's cutting me own throat!"
Er, I'd better give this thread back now I guess... starting to babble
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old.CreepingDeath
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- #47
i heard Roo mention spirit takes xp, well im 100% it doesnt
dunno if thats a bug of the current patch or what, I know it used to take xp, but since the full release of the game it hasnt.
There is a SM that specced high in summoning, Belorfyn (hes lvl 50 now). Not sure how high he went, be nice if he could comment here on what his char is like
the controlling your spirit factor is due to spirit automatically attacking mezzed adds after the first is killed.. this really sux, hope it gets taken out. Unless the mob hits me, or i tell it to atack, i dont want it to!
its currently up to the SM to make sure he switches the spirit to passive then back to defensive after each mob is killed.
last point about spirit buffs u get in summoning, maybe if they were doubled it might be more viable. debuffs we get in dark/supp are about double of the pet buffs we get.
dunno if thats a bug of the current patch or what, I know it used to take xp, but since the full release of the game it hasnt.
There is a SM that specced high in summoning, Belorfyn (hes lvl 50 now). Not sure how high he went, be nice if he could comment here on what his char is like
the controlling your spirit factor is due to spirit automatically attacking mezzed adds after the first is killed.. this really sux, hope it gets taken out. Unless the mob hits me, or i tell it to atack, i dont want it to!
its currently up to the SM to make sure he switches the spirit to passive then back to defensive after each mob is killed.
last point about spirit buffs u get in summoning, maybe if they were doubled it might be more viable. debuffs we get in dark/supp are about double of the pet buffs we get.
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old.ViscountCharles
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- #48
The Spirit DEFINATELY takes XP at present (and there are no plans to change this). I tried it just the other week - spirit did no damage, I got 100% XP. Spirit did all of the damage, I got about 75% XP.
Millenium hand and shrimp! Buggrit!
Millenium hand and shrimp! Buggrit!
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Roo Stercogburn
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- #49
In groups, my tactic for handling pet attacking mezzed adds is to set to passive just before current target is killed and the group tanks finish it off (unless Junior is the only one attacking beastie). This means even allowing for lag, pet comes trotting back, ready to be sent to next target as suits the group.
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Damon_D
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- #50
Originally posted by gama
The shamy DD is on a timer.... the same timer as the bolt :/
so they just fixed a bug we have been complaining about (and probably made the DD'd dmg less than the same lvl bolt....)
all i want is the DoT to be insta cast on a 25/30 sec timer, the ae dot to be ground target, and a DD NOT on a timer
(insta heals would be nice too)
Yeah we still gimped , they just make it look like they trying to fix it , but they keep messing it up
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old.CreepingDeath
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- #51
trust me spirit does no take xp.. (well it does but it all goes to the SM)
im lvl 48, have tested it many times nuking outright, then spirit tanking it totally, its always the same xp.
maybe your slight xp loss was due to it being a slightly lower lvl mob. Testing over many kill it doesnt take.
In the beta it was VERY clear that it did take xp, u got noticably less every time. it was one of the first things i noticed when the full game was released.
im lvl 48, have tested it many times nuking outright, then spirit tanking it totally, its always the same xp.
maybe your slight xp loss was due to it being a slightly lower lvl mob. Testing over many kill it doesnt take.
In the beta it was VERY clear that it did take xp, u got noticably less every time. it was one of the first things i noticed when the full game was released.
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old.chesnor
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- #52
I know that charmed pets take 25% of xp if they do ALL of the damage. However for summoned pets this might be different. Would be a bit lame for chanters/sm/theurgs if they took a 25% penalty all the time soloing (even though they are uber soloers)
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Flimgoblin
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- #53
Apparently...
If your pet does 100% of the damage to a monster (i.e. you sic it on it and then go afk and make a cup of tea or whatever) you'll lose 25% of the xp.. so you get 3/4 of the normal xp for doing nowt.
(for charmed pets this goes up to 50%)
If you do, say, 50% of the damage... thats 12% you're gonna lose. Not bad considering you'll be killing far bigger monsters.
(and in the case of charmed pets they're generally bigger so let you kill even meaner monsters).
Think of a pet as a low-level tank groupmate that takes less xp
If your pet does 100% of the damage to a monster (i.e. you sic it on it and then go afk and make a cup of tea or whatever) you'll lose 25% of the xp.. so you get 3/4 of the normal xp for doing nowt.
(for charmed pets this goes up to 50%)
If you do, say, 50% of the damage... thats 12% you're gonna lose. Not bad considering you'll be killing far bigger monsters.
(and in the case of charmed pets they're generally bigger so let you kill even meaner monsters).
Think of a pet as a low-level tank groupmate that takes less xp