Impressed £67.5 billion... nope... 263 billion, and rising.

[Gwadien]

Yes, that's great, but they haven't been unlinked, and they won't be any time soon. So again, what use are renewables to someone trying to keep a warm roof over their families heads?

Lets be honest, we probably don't represent many people, most people here are pretty well paid. I have people at work where I can see the strain they are under. Life is brutal at the moment, for a lot of people. Energy costs being a huge part of that. Oh look, we managed to get a wind turbine running for a few hours, just isn't going to cut it I am afraid.

Agree, but kinda also disagree.

It's pretty convenient to be told 'Oh look, if we drop gas you're all going to die!' Which I'm sure there's an element of truth to, but not in its entirety.

 

[Embattle]

You don't get to interact with poor people very much, do you @Embattle?

You don't seem understand the longer term impacts on those people you claim to interact with if fossil fuels keep being the main source of power.

Agree, but kinda also disagree.

It's pretty convenient to be told 'Oh look, if we drop gas you're all going to die!' Which I'm sure there's an element of truth to, but not in its entirety.

I'm personally not pushing for stopping all fossil fuels right this second, but I want a lot more investment in renewables either directly or through easing regulations.

 

[Raven]

Agree, but kinda also disagree.

It's pretty convenient to be told 'Oh look, if we drop gas you're all going to die!' Which I'm sure there's an element of truth to, but not in its entirety.

That's not really the point, up until recently we have had pretty cheap and reliable energy. Man on the street (those folk we seem to forget about) is happy to go to work, come home to a warm house, his family are warm, good stuff. Oh renewables, I can get behind that, great. Oh I see prices will come down, even better.

Reality, your monthly bill has gone up (my example) from £65 combined to £150 combined, nobody gives a fuck where you source it. Good luck mate! All that good will is gone, literally, in a Friday evening.

 

[Raven]

You don't seem understand the longer term impacts on those people you claim to interact with if fossil fuels keep being the main source of power.

All very exciting and very much to the script, but what difference does that make now, right this moment? Which really is how many people live, not because it's edgy and dangerous, but because that is reality. They really don't care that in 10, 20, 30 years costs *might* go down, they aren't now. So why should they care about promises of later cheap power, when we keep banging on about green this, green that, yet bills go up?

Take Scotland, I read that at some point this year (might have been last) that they achieved 100% renewable energy for 24 hours. Did they see a drop in bills? Did they fuck, they saw an increase.

 

[Gwadien]

Gas is also finite, if we keep kicking the can down the road without investing properly in renewable, it's just going to fuck over future generations, mahussively.

 

[Raven]

Gas is also finite, if we keep kicking the can down the road without investing properly in renewable, it's just going to fuck over future generations, mahussively.

Again, completely agree, but then I am not juggling whether to have the heating on or cooking my kids dinner, so it's all kind of moot.

Lets be honest, the frankly ridiculous profits these companies are making could and should be ploughed into R&D, but it isn't, it's going to shareholders. Free money. An international shake down.

 

[Embattle]

All very exciting and very much to the script, but what difference does that make now, right this moment? Which really is how many people live, not because it's edgy and dangerous, but because that is reality. They really don't care that in 10, 20, 30 years costs *might* go down, they aren't now. So why should they care about promises of later cheap power, when we keep banging on about green this, green that, yet bills go up?

Take Scotland, I read that at some point this year (might have been last) that they achieved 100% renewable energy for 24 hours. Did they see a drop in bills? Did they fuck, they saw an increase.

It is the economic effects elsewhere the real costs for using more fossil fuels will hit the poorest hardest, be they health, environmental, etc.

Bills are going up due to gas not renewables, they are just getting dragged up due to the way the market is structured.

Personally obtaining more gas locally I wouldn't have an issue with providing it was a short term solution and didn't involve a reduction in renewables, but I wouldn't trust the government on it.

 

[Scouse]

So, bascially @Raven - it's all about the money?

Gas is why energy is expensive - not renewables - which are cheaper than gas has ever been. The fact that you can be on a green tarrif and get charged the same as people on non-green tarrifs is criminal - and a government failing.

 

[Raven]

Bills are going up due to gas not renewables, they are just getting dragged up due to the way the market is structured.

I see you missed the entire point of my posts. Well done.

The poor don't give the remotest fuck about all that. Or at least they used to, not so much now. You're Johnny Average, You work full time, so does your other half, you have a couple of kids.

Your take home is ~1.5k a month, so is your other half, if you are lucky, 3k a month.

Rent, 1k?
Feeding your family for the month another £400?
Clothing yourself and your family, another £100 a month? (I literally have no idea, I spend about £100 a year on day-to-day clothes)
Running a car? petrol, tax, insurance, £150 each vehicle, say 2 for arguments sake. £300 - That's before the cost of the vehicle itself.
Other bills, water, £70, council tax, £130, Sundries, TV licence, internet, TC and so on, easily £200 a month

That's 2 grand a month, for basics, without even getting on to gas/electric, actually having a life, add £300, £400, £500 a month, and you have a lot of people that had a few quid for treats to a lot of people with fuck all.

Now ask Joe Average whether he cares where his power comes from.

 

[Raven]

So, bascially @Raven - it's all about the money?

Gas is why energy is expensive - not renewables - which are cheaper than gas has ever been.

No they aren't, that is an actual lie. I am sure you are aware that renewables costs are tied in with gas (literally the entire point of the last page, at least)

And it's all good and well, some cunt that works for a bank starts banging on about money. People are quite literally going hungry. I know that's a fucking weird concept for you, but that's reality, unfortunately.

 

[Scouse]

Now ask Joe Average whether he cares where his power comes from.

Joe Average better wake up and become a bit more politically invovled then.

But he'll probably get behind fracking.

 

[Scouse]

No they aren't, that is an actual lie. I am sure you are aware that renewables costs are tied in with gas (literally the entire point of the last page, at least)

They're way cheaper than gas. They produce electricity much more cheaply than burning gas. If you don't understand that then get fracking.

The reason we pay shitloads for them is that the price of electricity is made up of *all* methods of generating - and gas is fucking expensive at the moment. So the wholesale price has gone up.

 

[Embattle]

Look we get you don't like renewables Raven that is fine, if you want to keep talking shit about them that is fine as well but I won't continue posting on this part of the subject since I've made me views very clear.

You almost sound like a fossil fuel lobbyist.

 

[Raven]

Joe Average better wake up and become a bit more politically invovled then.

But he'll probably get behind fracking.

Again, it's all good, looking down from your tower, then reality bites. Hungry kids vs wind turbines, I know which I would pick and I refuse to breed.

 

[Raven]

Look we get you don't like renewables Raven that is fine, if you want to keep talking shit about them that is fine as well but I won't continue posting on this part of the subject since I've made me views very clear.

You almost sound like a fossil fuel lobbyist.

Erm, if you had more than 2 brain cells to rub together you would understand that I am balls deep in renewables, I just understand that if I was destitute, which much of the UK is now, I wouldn't give the remotest fuck about renewables, or gas, or setting the garden on fire to keep my kids warm, so long as they were warm.

I mean, are people so thick that they can't see things from other perspectives as their own? It all sounds very Tory.

 

[Embattle]

Erm, if you had more than 2 brain cells to rub together you would understand that I am balls deep in renewables, I just understand that if I was destitute, which much of the UK is now, I wouldn't give the remotest fuck about renewables, or gas, or setting the garden on fire to keep my kids warm, so long as they were warm.

I mean, are people so thick that they can't see things from other perspectives as their own? It all sounds very Tory.

Nice short term stupidity, but that is your choice as is your repeated failure to understand.

 

[Raven]

Nice short term stupidity, but that is your choice as is your repeated failure to understand.

Again, you seem to think that my "what others might think" = "what I think" easy error to make for the stupid.

Edit, try your household budget vs a minimum wage couple, then add in all the extra power charges. Then empathise (if that's a thing you are capable of) how you would deal with it and whether you would care where the power comes from.

People are sat in the dark now because they can't afford to put the lights on and run the oven, winter is coming and so on. I am sure you are fine, couldn't be more comfortable, good for you.

"Oh but renewables will drive your bills right down" No they fucking won't. Haven't, never will, so long as they are tied in with gas prices.

 

[Embattle]

@Raven Please to previous posts for a reply.

 

[Scouse]

Again, it's all good, looking down from your tower, then reality bites. Hungry kids vs wind turbines, I know which I would pick and I refuse to breed.

Have you been drinking by any chance?

I know people are suffering. That's obvious. Are you saying all these people are so thick that they think renewables are the source of their problems?

What's your fucking point?

 

[Raven]

Have you been drinking by any chance?

I know people are suffering. That's obvious. Are you saying all these people are so thick that they think renewables are the source of their problems?

What's your fucking point?

You will have a hard job quoting where I said that. You will find better luck quoting where I said "these people" are facing the tough choice of feeding or warming their families, they don't have the money to do both, they certainly don't have the luxury of paying "A bit more" for the transition from fossil to renewables, when renewables cost the same, or more than what they were paying before.

Again, if you are too stupid to understand that, then that appears to be a you problem, can't say it makes much difference to me.

But so long as you and @Embattle are happy to keep the status quo, I am sure we are all fine.

Anyway @Scouse, how is that insulation you keep bleating on about coming along? Done it yet? I have and have an older house than yours. Lots of hassle over the last couple of years, lots of expense, but done (will be when I lay the floor this weekend) Not sure I will even need gas this winter, quick blast in each room we are in with an economical electric fire, and we will be fine.

 

[Scouse]

they certainly don't have the luxury of paying "A bit more" for the transition from fossil to renewables, when renewables cost the same, or more than what they were paying before.

They don't tho. They're cheaper.

I don't know why you can't get this. Renewables are cheaper than gas and/or gas-produced electricity.

The fact that people are paying more for electricity isn't renewables fault. Geddit?

 

[Raven]

I genuinely don't know what @Embattle keeps disagreeing with me.

Options chooser.

People can't afford to heat their homes and eat

Renewables are tied into fossil costs

People that are desperate don't much care where heating/food comes from

Either stupid or lived a privileged life., or both? True Tory?

 

[Raven]

They don't tho. They're cheaper.

I don't know why you can't get this. Renewables are cheaper than gas and/or gas-produced electricity.

The fact that people are paying more for electricity isn't renewables fault. Geddit?

Again, completely wrong.

You pay the same per KW, regardless of where it comes from. I am on a 100% renewables contract, odd how my bills are going up, the same as everyone else. It's almost as if the source doesn't matter for the bill.

 

[Scouse]

Options chooser.

Renewables are tied into fossil costs

I choose the option that people who've chosen green renewable tarrifs get the true cost of what they've signed up to - and really cheap electricity bills.

 

[Scouse]

Again, completely wrong.

You pay the same per KW, regardless of where it comes from. I am on a 100% renewables contract, odd how my bills are going up, the same as everyone else. It's almost as if the source doesn't matter for the bill.

Yep fuck-nut. But that's not because renewables are expensive. It's because the government fucked up the market.

You get raped. It's not by wind-turbines - it's because we're ruled by incompetents.

 

[Raven]

I have a 100% green energy tarrif.

You're talking bollocks.

 

[Raven]

Yep fuck-nut. But that's not because renewables are expensive. It's because the government fucked up the market.

But they are expensive, regardless of cost to the provider, what part of that are you too thick to understand?

I will gently lead you back to my post that triggered you (obvious) Tories.

That's not really the point, up until recently we have had pretty cheap and reliable energy. Man on the street (those folk we seem to forget about) is happy to go to work, come home to a warm house, his family are warm, good stuff. Oh renewables, I can get behind that, great. Oh I see prices will come down, even better.

Reality, your monthly bill has gone up (my example) from £65 combined to £150 combined, nobody gives a fuck where you source it. Good luck mate! All that good will is gone, literally, in a Friday evening.

 

[Scouse]

But they are expensive, regardless of cost to the provider, what part of that are you too thick to understand?

So you are drinking then.

Or you'd have caught the bit where I said it's not renewables that are expensive - it's just your fucking bill that is.

Give it up and go sleep it off.

 

[Raven]

Again, @Embattle you can disagree all you like, that doesn't change the fact that I pay exactly the same as every other fucker to heat my house, despite signing up to "green" energy. The reason being is that renewables are still tied to fossil. You can deny that all you like, it won't change reality.

 

[Raven]

So you are drinking then.

Or you'd have caught the bit where I said it's not renewables that are expensive - it's just your fucking bill that is.

Give it up and go sleep it off.

Why do you always start banging on about drink when you have been found out? I haven't had a real drink in years, you should try it. You would make a lot more sense.

You're a Tory mate, deep down, that's quite sad. zero empathy for anyone else.