The Future's Orange? Not Mine.

Firstly I don't know much about the whole mobile phone scene, I only got my first tariff phone September of last year, just pay the standing order monthly and just use the thing. Someone at work mentioned getting a yearly upgrade and so I had a look at my paperwork and it seemed to confirm this.

When I went into the shop however I'm told that I am not valued enough as a customer by Orange! I was abit peeved so I sent them this message via their online customer service website:

Hi,

I started a contract with this phone in September 2004 and was under the impression that I could upgrade the phone 1 year later.

Today I went into the local dealer, who had confirmed this for me, only to find that in fact I couldn't upgrade to the phone I wanted. The Orange SPV C550.

It seems that this is not because the phone I would like is not available on my tariff, but because I am not valued enough as a customer of yours.

Apparently I could simply cancel my existing contract, and get the phone I want, free, for the same amount of money and the same minutes and texts as I currently have, but I would forfeit my number.

Or I could upgrade to the phone of my choice, for £89.99.

The bottom line then is that I am being asked to pay £90 simply to move my number from one phone to another. Is this really fair? After all I could easily swap service provider and take my number with me for free. I am being charged for wanting to stay loyal to Orange!

In fact I have just checked the current tariffs and I am currently paying £25 per month for 100 minutes and 100 texts, which is £5p/m more than your website says.

Your current TV advertising is full of how you will treat old customers just as well as your new customers, but on current evidence this is way off the mark.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your response.

RB

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which pretty much sums up how I was feeling. I sent this yesterday, but so far have only recieved an auto response.

The stupid thing is that I could get the newer phone, free, on a £20 per month tariff.

Does anyone here have any experience of this kind of thing?

RB

Yup, exactly the same thing here with Vodafone, who want me to pay to upgrade to a Nokia 6680. So their loss really, as I'm going to go to o2, who will give me the phone I want, a reduced bill, and I get to keep my number.

Plus, I sell the old phone on Ebay. Up yours Vodafone!

I had the same with O2.

I phoned them up at upgrade time and said "can i upgrade to the nokia blah-blah for free please".

"sorry sir, it's only free for new customers only"

"what? so what if i cancel my contract and get a new one, it's free?"

"yes sir"

"that's absurd, i want to cancel my contract completely with you then"

"actually sir, we'll wave that upgrade fee for you"

Scamming, chancing bastards. If you argue with them and spit the dummy, they may do the same and wave the upgrade charge. Fucking cocks, every last one of them.

Recently fell out with Orange myself. Admittedly I am not the quickest to pay my bills but, none the less, I do always pay them and have never defaulted on one. Before a recent trip to Turkey I asked Orange if they would please activate global roaming for the week that I was in Turkey. Apparently because of the conduct of my account I had to sign a direct debit form so they could take my money monthly and not wait for me to get round to it.

End result? A cancelled mobile. If they had factored in all the years I'd been with the company, all the (purchased) phone upgrades in that time, the unused bundle minutes/texts each month they may have realised they were onto a good thing with me. But I won't be treated like a second class customer, fuck 'em.

I had the same thing with Orange this summer, so moved to O2, got a nice new phone and kept my number. Perhaps that's the trick, move provider once a year, get a new phone and keep the old number

You got it bang on the nail, switching networks each year is the way to get a new phone on a new contract with the special offers and to keep your number you can transfer. Only between difference network mind, you can't transfer from one contract on the same network to another (except with O2 and Vodaphone but i'll cover this later) Having worked in the mobile phone market, upgrades are a total a waste of money.

Unless you spend loads and loads on your contract you arer not going to be able to upgrade your phone for free. Plus you can't say "i've finished my year can i sign onto this new contract with the free minutes and texts etc" They will generally say no"

The only way to really get round this is to change networks. First ring up your current network, get a PAC code (here they will try and convince you to stay). Then go get your new phone from a different network. When your new phone has been activated ring up your new networks customer services and tell them you are porting your number across from your previous network and give them the PAC code you got from your last network. This takes several days to action.

Now Say you are on O2 or Vodaphone Singlepoint what you can do is buy a new phone on a contact with Carphone warehouse on their O2 CPW and Vodaphone CPW networks. You should view these as a different network. So you can transfer from Vodaphone single point to Vodaphone CPW but not Vodaphone singlepoint to vodaphone single point or vice versa for the equivalent CPW flavour of networks.

Also there are lots of companies out there like www.e2save.com www.dialaphone.co.uk that offer massive reductions on contracts, but this works using a line rental redemption policy. So you pay the full amount but at the end of 6 months, 12months or whatever is stated on your contract. You send off your redemption coupon and you recieve a cheque. However! be warned! if you forget to send in your coupon at the specified date you will lose your redemption entitlement (well they do want your money)

Don't! just don't! get a mobile phone with 3g unless you want to suffer. The networks that are the best imo are T-mobile and vodaphone, o2 are cheap and have great deals but you don't get the best customer support, with T-mobile for instance their customer services are open pretty much all the time. Plus o2 don't have text message recieved notification as default. But there is a way to do it that requires too much effort.

Orange were quite good but were suffering massive problems when i left, BT also are ok, im not sure if they have recovered yet from their over successfull promotion campaign where they got far too many customers and they kept running out of sim cards!

All in all im currently on O2 after porting from T-mobile, but i will be going back to T-mobile once my 12 months are up.

This would appear to be a problem that occurs on most networks: I have found that you can generally get the new rates and keep your number either by threatening to leave them for someone else or by using some number transfer mechanism. Officially it's not possible to transfer an old number to a new account within the same network but it is possible (at least using O2) to transfer the number using their online form.

Failing that, you just switch networks every year so that you can keep your number.

Exactly the same thing happens with mortgages.

Thanks for the responses guys, especially Furr, great info.

I'll wait and see what they say to my message, if anything, then I'll phone and ask for a PAC code, and tell them exactly why I'm doing it.

Need to look for a nice new phone now.

RB

I've had exactly the same thing with 02 the last two times I was due for an upgrade....

"I'd like XXXX phone please."

"you can't"

"I'd like to cancel my account."

"Well, look what I've just found!"

Sorted. It's a bit of hassle but a lot less hassle than changing service providers each year.

Yes I had exactly the same with Orange. They advertise "rewarding existing customers" and giving old customers the same deal as new ones. however in reality this is bollocks. Left to go to o2 and get a better price plan, for less money and much better reception and customer service.

Orange really are the most shoddy network around. And they dont even fold when you tell them you'll just go to another network.

babs said:

I had the same thing with Orange this summer, so moved to O2, got a nice new phone and kept my number. Perhaps that's the trick, move provider once a year, get a new phone and keep the old number

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Exactly what I did last weekend.

Babs is gay though. Not related just thought it finished the post off nicely.

Ch3tan said:

Left to go to o2 and get a better price plan, for less money and much better reception and customer service.

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O2? Customer service?

AHAHAHAHAHAAAHAAAHAA!

I have got to be honest I have no issues with 3

I pay for two contracts, mine and my wife's phone. We were with orange until they pulled that exact same thing with me. When I said sort it or I cancel, they said "bye".

So I moved to three - got two free three phones and 6 months half price rental etc etc etc. This year a month before my contract ran out, I get a phone call from 3. Dear customer, because you pay dd and have never missed a bill we would like to offer you a free new phone complete with 6 months half price contract etc etc etc...

So I stuck with them. Ironically 3 are owned by the same people who own orange - wierd innit.

Personally if I weren't happy with 3 I would shop around for a new deal elsewhere - I feel no loyalty to any mobile phone company. They're all sharks

M

`mongoose said:

Ironically 3 are owned by the same people who own orange - wierd innit.

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No they're not. Orange are owned by France Telecom, 3 are part-owned by Hutchinson, who used to have a stake in Orange many years ago but had to sell it for anti-monopoly reasons.

Personally I've had a reasonable experience with O2 for the last couple of years, no problems with upgrades etc (in fact they hassle me to take an free upgrade). Before that it was Vodafone (best international service, but otherwise shit) and before that Orange, who were dire. The only major I haven't been with is T-Mobile, who seem to be OK on the CS side from what I've seen of people who are with them, but seem to have terrible network coverage.

DaGaffer said:

No they're not. Orange are owned by France Telecom, 3 are part-owned by Hutchinson, who used to have a stake in Orange many years ago but had to sell it for anti-monopoly reasons.

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Feck me!

I stand corrected

M

Just out of interest; can't you get a "pay as you go" account on a different network, move your number onto it, then cancel the original contract, get a new one, and move the number back ?

Don't know if it would be worth the initial cost of the "pay as you go" account, though, offset by the cost of the phone.

Had exactly the same experience. Orange wouldn't upgrade me to a Treo 650 except for about £200 because my contract was only £25 pcm.

Unfortunately they're the only Mobile Phone Company who offer that phone. Was able to find a place on net though who would sell me that phone (unlocked) for £30 if I signed up for a £30 pcm contract with O2.

So transferred my number to O2 and have a nice phone and O2 don't even seem to be charging me for my GPRS use

Well I got a response, but no news:

Dear RB

Orange number 7XXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your e-mail dated 1 November, forwarded by our customer service department.

We are sorry for the problem you have experienced with your account. We place great emphasis on the level of service we provide and appreciate the reasons for your dissatisfaction.

To fully respond to the issues you have raised, your e-mail has been passed to a Retention Customer Service clerk, who will be contacting you shortly.

If you wish to contact us to discuss your e-mail, please call us on 0800 0792288

Yours sincerely

Angela Clement
Retention Sales Support



I'll wait and see what the Retention Customer Service clerk has to say

TBH I wasn't that bothered about upgrading, but it has now become a point of principle!

A slightly related question, to show my complete lack of experience in this arena. When I get a new phone, either by orange showing a bit of sense or by changing service, will my existing handset become my property? It isn't much value to Orange.

If I do get to keep it would it be possible to have Sharon's Pay-as-you-Go account moved onto it? She has a horrible old handset that she hardly ever uses but would still like a better one. Oh and yes the P-A-Y-G account is also with Orange

RB

Yes the phone is already yours. It was yours when you signed up for the contract and they couldn't ask for it back. All you agreed was to pay them X amount per month as part of a contract for a certain period of time.

The only normal problem can be that the handsets tend to be locked to a particular operator i.e. Orange sim cards only. As your wifes PAYG card is also Orange there should be no problem.

You can get phones unlocked and the operators are meant to provide the unlock code either free or for an admin fee.

this is quite weird, I was on Orange for 4 years and never had a problem with them, they were always helpful and I got my upgrades when I wanted them. Then 12 months ago I moved to Vodafone so I could get a free SE S700i (they werent out on Orange at the time) and it was the worst thing I ever did. for the first 9 months they didn;t send me bills, they just sent me warnings saying my bill was overdue, reception has been by and large crap (compared to Orange on another SE phone anyway), dropped calls have become a way of life and even the phone they sent me has been going a little bit screwy.

Vodafone, you suck cock. How are you indeed......

Vae said:

Yes the phone is already yours. It was yours when you signed up for the contract and they couldn't ask for it back. All you agreed was to pay them X amount per month as part of a contract for a certain period of time.

The only normal problem can be that the handsets tend to be locked to a particular operator i.e. Orange sim cards only. As your wifes PAYG card is also Orange there should be no problem.

You can get phones unlocked and the operators are meant to provide the unlock code either free or for an admin fee.

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As they are both the same operator, I don't suppose it would be anything as easy as putting her sim card in my handset?

I guess not, that would be just too easy

Bodhi, were you paying more than £25 per month? Perhaps you were just a much more valued customer than me.

RB

RB - Yes it should be that simple. Try it

Tom said:

Exactly the same thing happens with mortgages.

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Absolutely.

I've just changed to O2 today. Went into the O2 shop to have a demo of the EXEC XDA PDA thingy (3G), but the salesman was crap - didn't want to tell me about the Nokia 6680, which I was also interested in.

Went over to Phones4U (cos I've done some work with them recently), gave me a 6680, £30 cash, 1000 minutes and 200 texts for 3 months, then half those allowances for a further 3 months, then I can change the contract and move down a tariff.

Vodafone wouldn't even consider something like that.

Sounded fair to me, besides the O2 PDA thing is huge


I was most irritated by one of the managers in the P4U shop though, trying to sell me insurance - told them about 5 times NO, and then he said 'but you're self employed you'll get it for free'

"really?"

"yes, hang on" *he phones collegue*

I then spoke to his collegue, who tried to convince me that a tax-deductable expense was the same as getting it for free. I then gave them a quick lecture on how the tax system works, they were a bit surprised they've been telling people porkies I think!

Ask for your PAC code when you cancel your contract with Orange, then get a payg sim from another network and tell them your PAC code, then go back to orange and get a shiney new contract and get the PAC code from your PAYG provider and tell Orange whatr it is. You then keep your old number.

Or you could just go with abnother operator on contract and get give them your PAC code when you get from Orange.

I am on payg talkalotmore with O2, i get 300 texts a month and 150 off peak minutes for £15 a month. I think thats a good deal, i bought my own phone and got insurance.

Tom said:

I was most irritated by one of the managers in the P4U shop though,

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I hate Phones4U. Everything about them makes my skin crawl; their staff, their advertising, their parent company. Horrible.

I was about to say. Avoid phones4u. They are out purely to make their comissions, and they (singlepoint) are your service providor, and who you get your bills from -not a good thing.

Phones4U have always been a bit dodgy. Heard a lot of horror stories.

It's really odd, I had a similar situation with Vodaphone (was with them for 4 years), and I left for Orange (when I called for my PAC code the second time they tried to retain me, but it was too late then!) since then I've had no problems upgrading with Orange, and I only spend £30 a month.

Retentions will try to do something, but it's a bit crap that they seem to value new customers more than existing ones!

Some other info.

On contract phones you don't "own" the phone till you have completed the 12 month contract. So for instance if they send you a phone but you fail the secondary credit checks they will ask that you send the phone back, if you refuse to then networks and resellers (CPW, P4u etc) are known to take money of your debit cards, send round baliffs all sorts.

Insurance can be usefull, i know its naughty but if you have insurance and you phone gets nicked NEVER tell them that the phone was out of your sight, on a table, in your car etc. When it comes to insurance unless you've been mugged, pickpocketed basically the phone was on you and then was stolen they will say that you were not looking after your phone and your insurance request will be denied.

When complaining don't shout a swear at the customer service people, otherwise your request/complaint has a tendency to get shoved to the bottom of a file and the words "abusive customer" and a nice big cross gets put on your file.

you can port from PAYG phones to Contacts, when buying phones that you intend to port to remember to inform them you are planning to port the number, i know that with carphone if you plan to port to O2 and voda but forget to tell them then you have to return the phone back and they have to do a completely new order.

3G i never had fun with, as a support adviser (customer service people where i worked only handled the small problems we had to fix the major f**k ups) i spent many hours chatting to the sellers support in Glasgow, but the normal customer gets support from india, where they generally don't care. I had a loverely row once with them due to their ignorance and rudeness to customers.

also its worth looking at this site www.gsmarena.com for info on new phones, plus is also tells you what new phones the manf' are about to release.

The "redemptions department" means keep the customer a customer as much as you can, the people on these teams generally earn commision from the amount of "saves" they are able to get.