Dark age of buff-a-lot

Thorwyn[B&Q] said:

And no, adding a range to BB´s won´t change a thing. You´d still encounter buffed people left right and middle. Don´t think that people are so unimaginative.

Click to expand...

thing is you cant actually kill the BB now(well with volley you can, but even that can largely be defeated). When you cant just park it in the tk and have to take it into the RvR zone than the player will either have to divide his attention between the BB and him or just park it somewhere and hope that it doesnt get killed (which it probably will as it cant be just hidden anywhere and even on camlann they seem to get killed often). Or off course just stay close to the tk, but that means that area you can hunt on is rather small. So range on buffs would harm buffbots, it will also harm buff classes a little even if the range is great(but imo it would give them more advantage as they are now more needed as now people need a real player to give them buffs).

From a moral viewpoint it is one vs two (if the other is solo and unbuffed and the other is solo and buffed) and the buffed player still gets all of the rp's and the unbuffed get no bonus for defeating the buffed one (as you cant kill the BB). That is besides that the use of buffbots more or less forces stealthers to get one on their own.

Anyway I do agree with Belomar that it is pretty pointless, as Mythic will never trully nerf buffbots as otherwise they would have done it by now.

It would certaibnly harm BB`s as we know them, but players would learn to adopt the changes and turn it into an advantage. Hide BB behind a tree and use it to lure the enemy stealther. If you´d see a single BB standing around looking stupid, would you unstealth and attack it?

i think mythic should put a range on bb buffs ..... long range but not long enough for somebody to wander all around emain... basically the way i see it .... a buffed assasin vs a unbuffed assasin = 2v1 .. because the buffed assasin may not be able to kill him unbuffed. whereas the unbuffed person has no chance

i play a scout and yes i need a bb to compete (if u wanna call it that cos im free rp's to many clases) but i use a friends. BUT, i would HAPPILY see a nerf to buffbots.. if a person is allowed buffs imo they should have to runaround with the bb /stick to them. cos its 2v1 and 1 of which is UNKILLABLE.m which imo is unfair

the whines/account closures that would come would hurt mythics pocket to much for them to nerf em now .

and dont forget mythic aint running doac n coding it etc for our enjoyment.... they do the game as it is to make money. and LOTS of it.
as much as id like to see em get nerfed. it wont hapen

Belomar said:

I'm sorry, but you are the one who can't post a single message to FH without whining about buffbots while the rest of us shut up and put up with it, knowing it will never change. A donkey only falls into the same hole once, but I guess you don't even measure up to those standards.

Click to expand...

If everybody thought like you sir, then we wouldn't be playing dark age of camelot at all, no sir we would not. And our precious King Arthur, would probably have existed for real, perhaps not by that name.

Thank you whiners for whining and taking action, trying to make a change. I'd hate to live as a farmer paying up to 90% taxes of whatever income I'd make.

>We have agreed that Buffbot's are a very damaging factor to the rvr game-play in Dark Age of Camelot, and probally is the biggest win or lose factor in the game.

Not really, you see I have one too Granted I know it provides me with an unfair advantage over those that dont have my disposable income but ToA was impossible to solo in without it. Soo my defence broke too.

>agreed is also the Mythic devoleped a product that does not work unless you buy two of them, althoug this is not noted anywhere.

Well if you want to play the assassin class when you buy the box you will feel cheated as you will end up with a Trabant when you reach 50 sans buffbot But I can assure you that both my rm, sm, warrior and friar worked very well out of the box.

I would state that the marketing might be on the edge if not illigal, and the costumor's delibirately have been manipulated.

Get real, all marketing is made to make you feel a need, it plays on your emotions in every situation, which is to manipulate you into buying the merchandise. Not a particular trait with Mythic and GoA. The interesting thing is that very few of the kiddies that play the game is aware of that they are being manipulated. Oh one copper to the one that identifies the emotion that buffbot need is based on

Its not only the bb thats making the game suck its also the PL part. Very hard to find grp's to exp with because almost everyone is PLing. Newbee come's in game can't find grp and will stop with playing because its no fun. And that for a game that was once was based as a group playing game. This game is sucking more and more. In the beginning it was great fun to play, now i'm looking hard to find new games where the fun still is. Hate cheating and it is a sort of cheating in my point of view.

Buffs where made for the grps where you where running in, not to stand in front of a keep. Make the buffs range, and if you walked out of you grp buff range its youre own fault you need to stay close.

And for the people that don't wanna do the lvl up to 50 because they own already 1 lvl50. The lvling is made to learn how to play youre class. And they already give you a head start with the lvl20 thing.

Some friends of me wanted to play daoc also but stopped because all of this. And i will do the same if i find me a good game.

But mythic/goa will understand when its to late and people will move.

I have to aggree buffs are spoiling the game. Although, nothing will change as it brings in 2x more cash for GOA or whoever. They should put ncps around who sell buffs for cash...

p.s never read the whole post

i second that the game just aint fun anymore, and i am also waiting for new games to come out. But what is fun in the game is killing a bg character solo, unbuffed and just watching the buffs drop mwhahaha.

Thorwyn[B&Q] said:

It would certaibnly harm BB`s as we know them, but players would learn to adopt the changes and turn it into an advantage. Hide BB behind a tree and use it to lure the enemy stealther. If you´d see a single BB standing around looking stupid, would you unstealth and attack it?

Click to expand...

sorry for the late response, but if the BB isnt in the TK than it might(/will) get killed by nonstealthed people or you could get one person to kill the BB and you attack the stealther. Or if you solo the person you will get twice the rp's for it instead of only once.

Dorin said:

Solution 1:

Dont play a stealther, play a grp char or a buffing class ><

Solution 2:

Ask one of your stealther friends to buff you

Solution 3:

Go unbuffed, get beaten most of the time but hey you are not infected at least

Rly these bb threads are so old and the final conclusion is always the same. They are here, you cant do shit against them so try to live with the "sad" facts.

I do have a BB, i never ever regreted that i'm paying 2 accounts instead of 1. Great help in PvE (solo-duo farming without searching for a buffer - caped buffs mean kinda alot) and on par with others in rvsr due to being fully buffed.

Mythic wins? Yes
Do i enjoy the game? Yes

my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Lol it's like I wrote this myself I totally agree - I consider my buffbot to be one of my most valueable chars, I use it for farming/leveling chars the old way/rvr buffing. I am happy, and so are Mythic I guess.

On a sidenote; stealthers are notorios char tweakers, always trying to get 1% better stats/performance. Why? Because they need to, otherwise they die, they don't have a group with 50% support classes to rely on. Thus it is rather näive (although very idealistic) to disregard the use of buffbots just for the principle of it.

Iceflower said:

The interesting point here from a marketing perspective is if you would have bought Daoc in the first place. Lets face it the information you had available at the purchasing point would be more a price comparison between Daoc and other MMORPGs. And if it was labeled as "you need two copies to play properly" and you compared that entry fee to the competition. Would you have walked over to the cashier with the boxes? Unfortunately we will never know as you today know way more about the game than when you were a pure noob at Daoc lore and therefore cant answer the question. Designing the game from the buffed player view actually implies that the long run effect was in the desingers mind when making Daoc. Manipulation on a high level in other words. Brilliant marketing strategy actually to ensure you wouldnt die the soot death in the shadow of EQ.

Click to expand...

Lots of things to comment here, first of all buffbots weren't really as "needed" as they are today to perform well, you could go as a lvl 33 thane w/o buffs or speed and still win ^^ Secondly, you don't technically need two accounts to play daoc, only if you choose to play a class that is semi-helpless in rvr w/o buffs, like stealthers. I play a healer, and could manage to do so well w/o having a buffbot. I do have a buffbot for other classes though, and because they are very useful in pve too.

The developement in the buffbot area is comparable to when you are at a football game and the crowd around you rise to their feet to watch a goal/exciting situation. If you choose to stay sitting, you won't see the goal, so most ppl would rise to their feet to get on the others level. But if the crowd around you had stayed sitting, you wouldn't have to bother what to do about it (as was the situation in early daoc - noone had a buffbot).

Let's look at it from the perspective of game theory: the use of a buffbot for two players is analogical to the Prisoners' Dilemma, but with the strategies (!BB, BB), i.e. not having or having a buffbot, and the payoffs being your happiness in the game. Assume that this happiness factor is a function of your advantage over the other player in a fight as well as your feelings about the subscription fees. A payoff table would look something like this:
This expresses the fact that when both players have no BB (upper left cell), they have no advantage over the other, but on the other hand they only pay for one account, so their happiness is at fairly good 10. If one player gets a buffbot, however, they do have to pay higher subscription fees, but this is considerably offset by their advantage over the other player, so their happiness goes up to 20 while the opponent gets a happiness of 0 (on account of losing every damn fight!). Finally, if both players use buffbots, neither has an advantage any longer, but they now have to pay for two subscriptions each, so their happiness stops at a measly 1.

Given that both players action rationally (i.e. tries to maximize their payoffs), it is easy to see that getting a BB is a dominant strategy for this game (just like confessing is in the Prisoners' Dilemma). Furthermore, the state where both players have buffbots is a Nash Equilibrium, and thus it is no surprise that for a game of min-maxers like this, you will end up at this state sooner or later.