let's make an agreement about AC raids

Last Friday some Hib players tried to make a statement by releasing towers and keeps. It was a statement against the AC raids which caused this server a lot of harm, many people left this server during the past weeks and months, mainly Hibs. But if Hibs leave the game then it also becomes less interesting for the other realms, also Mids and Albs will leave and the server will be dead eventually. As GoA didn't seem to be able to solve this problem, some Hibs decided to take action, a last attempt to try to convince all realms it would benefit us all to get rid of these AC raids. Not everyone was happy with this action, but I'm still convinced it was the best we could do to prevend more damage to this server. We got a lot of support from Hibs, Mids and Albs. It seems to me like most people, also Albs, wanna get rid of these AC raids.
GoA didn't seem to understand the problem, they rather ban people instead of helping us to find a solution. They banned 2 Albion players for downgrading a relic keep, perhaps GoA feels like they have no choice and have to ban people for acting against the spirit of the game, which I support, but not in this case where they failed to see the real problem: the AC raids which are spoiling the gamefun for so many players. GoA could have admitted to understand the real problem behind this all, by not banning people and by making a statement against AC-raids. Unfortunately they just prefered to ban.

Don't forget we're ALL here to have some fun, that's what we all pay for. Having a few people (AC raiders) spoiling the fun for so many others, that certainly must be against the spirit of the game.

This server is not dead yet, there are still enough players left to have fun but we can't loose anymore. We have to deal with these AC raids, we should have done that months ago tbh..., so let's try to agree with most players about this: AC-raids are not wanted, any keeps or relics taken during an AC raid will not be defended by the realm that took them.

I'll leave it to the Albion players to decide what has to happen with the 2 AC raided relics from Hibernia they have at the moment. I know it will be very difficult for Hibs to get these relics back from a defended keep, as Hibs only have a few groups left to zerg.

Roxanna - druid
GM of Dream Walkers

Here is my view on this: AC raids didn't cause the server a lot of harm. The whine did. The constant whine from some against others.

Instead of whining and bitching, log on, play or go to play somewhere else!

From personal level I don't like ACs too and the level of the guards should be somehow adjusted, but I also agree with Requiel, only because there is a whining majority on FH one shouldn't exclude a playing minority at nights from certain in game activities.

Want it fixed? Sent feedback to Mythic.

Erm what?

So if hibs take for instance alb relic and take a tower or a keep in alb, hibs may not defend that tower or keep or something?

Anyway, nothing you can do about it. Untill Mythic increases the guard difficulity at specific times in the day. And not everyone reads FH.

Manisch Depressiv said:

Here is my view on this: AC raids didn't cause the server a lot of harm. The whine did. The constant whine from some against others.

Instead of whining and bitching, log on, play or go to play somewhere else!

From personal level I don't like ACs too and the level of the guards should be somehow adjusted, but I also agree with Requiel, only because there is a whining majority on FH one shouldn't exclude a playing minority at nights from certain in game activities.

Want it fixed? Sent feedback to Mythic.

Click to expand...

Nerf reading my thoughts.

This is a 24 hour game, should goa shut down servers from midnight to noon, so everybody gets a chance?

I think not.

-Jerelyn

Roxanna said:

Last Friday some Hib players tried to make a statement by releasing towers and keeps. It was a statement against the AC raids which caused this server a lot of harm, many people left this server during the past weeks and months, mainly Hibs. But if Hibs leave the game then it also becomes less interesting for the other realms, also Mids and Albs will leave and the server will be dead eventually. As GoA didn't seem to be able to solve this problem, some Hibs decided to take action, a last attempt to try to convince all realms it would benefit us all to get rid of these AC raids. Not everyone was happy with this action, but I'm still convinced it was the best we could do to prevend more damage to this server. We got a lot of support from Hibs, Mids and Albs. It seems to me like most people, also Albs, wanna get rid of these AC raids.
GoA didn't seem to understand the problem, they rather ban people instead of helping us to find a solution. They banned 2 Albion players for downgrading a relic keep, perhaps GoA feels like they have no choice and have to ban people for acting against the spirit of the game, which I support, but not in this case where they failed to see the real problem: the AC raids which are spoiling the gamefun for so many players. GoA could have admitted to understand the real problem behind this all, by not banning people and by making a statement against AC-raids. Unfortunately they just prefered to ban.

Don't forget we're ALL here to have some fun, that's what we all pay for. Having a few people (AC raiders) spoiling the fun for so many others, that certainly must be against the spirit of the game.

This server is not dead yet, there are still enough players left to have fun but we can't loose anymore. We have to deal with these AC raids, we should have done that months ago tbh..., so let's try to agree with most players about this: AC-raids are not wanted, any keeps or relics taken during an AC raid will not be defended by the realm that took them.

I'll leave it to the Albion players to decide what has to happen with the 2 AC raided relics from Hibernia they have at the moment. I know it will be very difficult for Hibs to get these relics back from a defended keep, as Hibs only have a few groups left to zerg.

Roxanna - druid
GM of Dream Walkers

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Roxanna i respec this you just write down and i do totaly respect this act, but im sry to say this i don't think its gona help alot. As many people have work school what so ever during 06:00 mayby earlyer to around 12:00 mayby even longer there will be no hibs defending the keeps, i can't be botherd to log on around 02:00 in the moring as i have a addectition to take care of, and i don't wona spent my time in school sleeping becours of a game and i think most people think this way.

And i must agreed that it was a rong act that GoA banned those Alb that was trying to hel stop those AC raids, Couse they are annoying and they are breaking the spirit of this game not those albs that in some way tryed to get it back. And i do respect them for doing that so a big /salute TT. And a /worship for having the balls to do it. It is alittle sad that they got the ban for couse i think those that do the AC raid desave a ban more then those ppl.

An TT ppl respect for doing it. And hope it wasnt a perma ban you guys got couse you don't desave it. An i can only say thies are mayby some of the breavest warriors out there

Manisch Depressiv said:

Here is my view on this: AC raids didn't cause the server a lot of harm. The whine did. The constant whine from some against others.

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This my dear friend Rox is the problem a, complete denial on the part of a lot of people in this game as to what is going on and the refusal to deal with it it anyway apart from "get lost if dont like it give" or "feedback" to so and so or just "lump it".

No agreement will ever hold cuz there are no repercussions for any of the people carrying out these raids. I dont mean repercussions from GOA or Mythic but rather from the realm mates of the people doing the raids (hib alb or mid).

If people were to actaully start to do something to the people carrying out the ACR's maybe, just maybe, something would happen but this will never happen as a lot of people just spam useless shit like "i dont ACRS" but are quite happy to reap the benfits of it and wont say jack to the people doing it.

Jerelyn said:

This is a 24 hour game, should goa shut down servers from midnight to noon, so everybody gets a chance?

I think not.

-Jerelyn

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indeed - should be midnight to 8pm as I don't get home until 7pm and i need to make & eat dinner, wash the dishes etc before I get to sit infront of my computer.

Somewhere in august/september this year i posted that when im running GG with CM we would not take
a relic at late night, that still counts for me, if we running GG late night then we might take 1
enemy keep and mostlikely leaving it unclaimed or if albs wanna claim it they can claim it.

Keeps in albion that not from albion we always trying to retake, no matter what time of day it is,
im a person that would like to see albion frontiers red before i go to bed, so do my guildmembers
like to see it aswell.

If other albs taking a relic in midnight and they place it in a keep that is claimed by Custodia Malacitana,
we will defend it and leave it at level 10 or upgrade the keep to lvl 10.

Manisch Depressiv said:

Here is my view on this: AC raids didn't cause the server a lot of harm. The whine did. The constant whine from some against others.

Instead of whining and bitching, log on, play or go to play somewhere else!

From personal level I don't like ACs too and the level of the guards should be somehow adjusted, but I also agree with Requiel, only because there is a whining majority on FH one shouldn't exclude a playing minority at nights from certain in game activities.

Want it fixed? Sent feedback to Mythic.

Click to expand...

It's exactly this attitude that has done so much harm to the server.

AC raids annoy and frustrate people that is why they whine. The whine has been at a serious level for some time and has come from a number of individuals and realms.

The whining majority should have preference over the AC'ing minority. If you play late at night you do not need to relic raid. If the majority are so hacked off that they feel they need to take some sort of action then that causes everyone problems.

A lot of people have taken your advice and gone to play somewhere else. I wonder if that is what you and the rest of the people left really want though. Surely an active server with good levels of RvR is better than a half empty one ?

GOA should think about the majority of players and it is up to the players to think about the wider game.

Sadly Roxanna this is never going to work. Apathy or even worse support for AC'ing is not going to be stamped out. Salute you for the thought though.

There's always 2 sides to a paper and even if some want it all to stop bcse it takes the fun out of the game for many people, some others do feel the opposite. I can only speak for myself in this matter and I couldn't care less when the relics are taken. Thou I'd like to be able to defend when it happens but as it's a 24/7 game and I'm not online 24/7 I doubt its gonna happen.

I accept that some think they are doing a great job for their realm and so on but yet again, it's their thoughts and not mine, we can't all agreee over something like this even if we want.

The majority of players don't read FH so anything agreed here may well be ignored as we've seen in the past.

Incidentally, there's a credibility gap with some of the arguments in this situation.

It begins with why are people against AC raids?

As a "zerger", I don't like them as it means I miss out on keep defence and it also makes keep/relic takes less meaningful (as someone can just take them back in the early hours). AC raids undermine one of my main reasons for playing the game.

But many of those being most vocal are "fg'ers" - people who play the game exclusively for fg fights. They are not concerned about missing out on large scale battles - they are concerned about 8v8 fights. So taking the next logical step, we can say that actually it doesn't matter to them at what time the relics are taken. It is the 10% damage shift that matters. They are not interested in the community as a whole - they are interested in the fg community. They don't care if zerger quit, only if other fg'ers quit. This is borne out by many of their posts, their attitude to "zergers" and some of the abuse that people who have led primetime keep taking have received in recent months (e.g. Windraven received a number of abusive pms from people during a recent primetime raid on Midgard for breaking the port).

So the next logical step is that the uproar from the fg section about AC raids is a smoke screen. Those in the fg community are primarily concerned with maintaining balanced relics - the time it's actually taken is irrelevant.

Now it could be argued that they would accept prime-time relic raids because they can then have the chance of defending in order to maintain the relic balance. This doesn't really hold weight for the reasons I stated earlier - the negative comments are made just as much when primetime raids take place. But even if it was true then the logic follows that the uproar from the fg community is still ultimately about 10% damage shift and those who have left are doing so either for that basic reason or because of other factors (as opposed to the "zergers" who would be annoyed because one of the main parts of their entire playstyle is undermined by AC raids).

Which ultimately brings it down to a simple question - is it really that important?

Bracken said:

The majority of players don't read FH so anything agreed here may well be ignored as we've seen in the past.

Incidentally, there's a credibility gap with some of the arguments in this situation.

It begins with why are people against AC raids?

As a "zerger", I don't like them as it means I miss out on keep defence and it also makes keep/relic takes less meaningful (as someone can just take them back in the early hours). AC raids undermine one of my main reasons for playing the game.

But many of those being most vocal are "fg'ers" - people who play the game exclusively for fg fights. They are not concerned about missing out on large scale battles - they are concerned about 8v8 fights. So taking the next logical step, we can say that actually it doesn't matter to them at what time the relics are taken. It is the 10% damage shift that matters. They are not interested in the community as a whole - they are interested in the fg community. They don't care if zerger quit, only if other fg'ers quit. This is borne out by many of their posts, their attitude to "zergers" and some of the abuse that people who have led primetime keep taking have received in recent months (e.g. Windraven received a number of abusive pms from people during a recent primetime raid on Midgard for breaking the port).

So the next logical step is that the uproar from the fg section about AC raids is a smoke screen. Those in the fg community are primarily concerned with maintaining balanced relics - the time it's actually taken is irrelevant.

Now it could be argued that they would accept prime-time relic raids because they can then have the chance of defending in order to maintain the relic balance. This doesn't really hold weight for the reasons I stated earlier - the negative comments are made just as much when primetime raids take place. But even if it was true then the logic follows that the uproar from the fg community is still ultimately about 10% damage shift and those who have left are doing so either for that basic reason or because of other factors (as opposed to the "zergers" who would be annoyed because one of the main parts of their entire playstyle is undermined by AC raids).

Which ultimately brings it down to a simple question - is it really that important?

Click to expand...

How can anyone take you serious tbh, the first statement in your whole post is just randomly made and baised to fit your own opinion.
You know fuck all about how many people read or do not read FH and what percentage that make of the whole population.


/edit, since you and others still do not understand why ACing is abit harmfull atm, I'll say it again:


1) It makes people leave when the population already is dropping/low.

Thats the only f-ing reason you need. You drive people away with this nonsense attidude to the game and other players.

When we are clustered or got higher population ( as if ), then please go ahead with ur ACing.

Matriarch|Sneakers said:

How can anyone take you serious tbh, the first statement in your whole post is just randomly made and baised to fit your own opinion.
You know fuck all about how many people read or do not read FH and what percentage that make of the whole population.

Click to expand...

We can make educated guesses though - recent polls on which many people had strong feelings get around 250 responses cluster has somewhere between 800-1000 people on it at peak times. Even if half of those are dual logging (and that seems very unlikely) that still makes the FH population 50% of the cluster. If a quarter are dual logging (seems closer to the real figure) then it drops to one-third of cluster being active on FH.

Take into account that quite a lot of the more vocal FH posters have 'retired' or 'inactive' or 'moved' in their sigs andthat further diminshes the proportion of cluster that are likely to be active on FH.

Matriarch|Sneakers said:

1) It makes people leave when the population already is dropping/low.

Thats the only f-ing reason you need. You drive people away with this nonsense attidude to the game and other players.

Click to expand...

The same applies to the constant insults and belittling of people here and in game who have different playstyles.

Can all stop it, please.

(I'll be quite happy if everyone stops non primetime relic takes too, but that is a personal preference only)

Darzil

Javai said:

cluster has somewhere between 800-1000 people on it at peak times.

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lol which cluster would that be cuz it aint excal pryd thats for sure.

And just ignore bracken he has too much time on his hands, likes to keep posting useless crap abut his views and then about half way through the post will tell you they are not his real views and he felt like posting just to be a arsehole.

All things being equal the 10% bonus from relics would make a difference in FGvsFG BUT rarely are all things equal.

I would have thought the RR11+ groups running around fighting RR4 groups would be more of an imbalance,or group setups and experience would make a bigger difference than any 10% bonus to damage.

As I said in another post asking Albs to stop ACers is tough because unless your part of the late night playerbase you have no idea who is doing it especially since CM stopped so who do you start speaking to to get them to stop ?

On top of that what makes anyone think the ACers would actually listen depending on their reasons for actually doing the raids.

AC raids are a reason that the server population is falling but not the only reason,lack of respect for others playstyle,the game being old,guilds dying out slowly and loads of other reasons contribute to it.

Asking people not to defend a relic no matter how it was taken probably wont work because some will want to defend for "the realm",some just for the rps and others because they feel like it.

A good idea but no matter how much the majority want something there will always be some that just want to play the way they want to.
In the case of ACers it affects alot of people but if someone told the soloers to stop soloing or the FGs to stop playing as a FG or people who enjoy the zerg to stop fighting in a zerg would any of them listen just because someone thought it was wrong or didnt fit into how they saw things?

Just so no one is in any doubt about it
I dont like AC raids and have never taken part in one but I dont think you'll ever stop them if someone no matter what realm is willing and wants to do them as long as the servers are open 24/7

tierk said:

lol which cluster would that be cuz it aint excal pryd thats for sure.

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When I logged on to cluster last night at 8.30pm GMT (pretty much the middle of peak time in GMT and CET) there were 800 players on it. Roughly 500 on Excal and 300 on Pryd.

Matriarch|Sneakers said:

blah blah blah

Click to expand...

Read. Engage brain. Post. If I can manage it I'm sure you can.

Even tho i don't like "late nights relics raids" i don't think this is the cause of the dropping of the population. Other variables as game age, new games, no advertising of the game are the principal factors imo.

Albion during OF had 0 relics during long periods (excalibur server that is), but they kept playing and it was not prejudicial to fg scene or RvR scene in general.
I can understand how frustating it's for Hibs or Mids when a primetime raid relic is overwritten by a "AC raid" the next night but people should look at what they accomplished and be proud of it and not whine on what the others did.
Relics never changed hands that many times than in NF, it's a new era and players need to adapt.

My 2cents.

tierk said:

lol which cluster would that be cuz it aint excal pryd thats for sure.

And just ignore bracken he has too much time on his hands, likes to keep posting useless crap abut his views and then about half way through the post will tell you they are not his real views and he felt like posting just to be a arsehole.

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The fact I can make either a blatant flame post or a post which follows a logical argument shows it's a matter of choice. The fact you just post like a **** every single time shows that in that respect you and I differ

tierk said:

This my dear friend Rox is the problem a, complete denial on the part of a lot of people in this game as to what is going on and the refusal to deal with it it anyway apart from "get lost if dont like it give" or "feedback" to so and so or just "lump it".

No agreement will ever hold cuz there are no repercussions for any of the people carrying out these raids. I dont mean repercussions from GOA or Mythic but rather from the realm mates of the people doing the raids (hib alb or mid).

If people were to actaully start to do something to the people carrying out the ACR's maybe, just maybe, something would happen but this will never happen as a lot of people just spam useless shit like "i dont ACRS" but are quite happy to reap the benfits of it and wont say jack to the people doing it.

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I really don't care about the benefits, I don't need them to PvE or RvR. I also don't see how providing constructive feedback to Mythic about the needed changes of relic-takes is "useless shit". But go ahead.

I do not deny anything that is going also, a lot of set groups left due to the lack of proper competition to Avalon some time ago already, some others left to Avalon/US due to the low population some time ago already and THEN the screwed rest used some random AC'ed relic as an excuse to leave also.

And yes, I didn't say it, but you are right: adapt to it (play) or get lost (play elsewhere or not at all) or get it changed by design (provide Mythic with arguments why this needs to be changed). Everything else is just a waste of time, including the whining and bitching and blaming others like you did so nice here, works like this in every game.

Bracken said:

The fact I can make either a blatant flame post or a post which follows a logical argument shows it's a matter of choice. The fact you just post like a **** every single time shows that in that respect you and I differ

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lol you are beyond a joke tbh you havent posted anything logical or usefull on any of the cureent threads apart from flaming people or calling them *****. I supose as i have said to you before in the past its not your fault and to be expected considering the fact that you are a loser, which i conclude by the fact that u are a villa supporter

Manisch Depressiv said:

I really don't care about the benefits, I don't need them to PvE or RvR. I also don't see how providing constructive feedback to Mythic about the needed changes of relic-takes is "useless shit". But go ahead.

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Well the reason i say to you its a useless waste of effort is cuz on a server with a decent population on it it is possible to get along with ACR's, however, when the population has reached levels that this server has then it becomes much more of a issue. Mythic runs servers in the USA were they have like double the different time zones we have and it wont be such a big issue as it is here.

Manisch Depressiv said:

I do not deny anything that is going also, a lot of set groups left due to the lack of proper competition to Avalon some time ago already, some others left to Avalon/US due to the low population some time ago already and THEN the screwed rest used some random AC'ed relic as an excuse to leave also.

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lol dude you seriously cannot tell me you have not and cannot see the effect these ACR's are having on the server?

Manisch Depressiv said:

And yes, I didn't say it, but you are right: adapt to it (play) or get lost (play elsewhere or not at all) or get it changed by design (provide Mythic with arguments why this needs to be changed). Everything else is just a waste of time, including the whining and bitching and blaming others like you did so nice here, works like this in every game.

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You didnt say it in this thread but you been spamming the stuff throughtout a whole heap of other threads.

tierk said:

lol you are beyond a joke tbh you havent posted anything logical or usefull on any of the cureent threads apart from flaming people or calling them *****. I supose as i have said to you before in the past its not your fault and to be expected considering the fact that you are a loser, which i conclude by the fact that u are a villa supporter

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You're single-handedly demonstrating my point. Well done

Roxanna said:

so let's try to agree with most players about this: AC-raids are not wanted, any keeps or relics taken during an AC raid will not be defended by the realm that took them.

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and get banned like TT? ok then m8, on your own

psyco said:

and get banned like TT? ok then m8, on your own

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i rather get banned like TT then having to play with retards

AC raids have done damage.
Lack of population has done damage.
People leaving (including moi) won't have helped.
Whining does damage.
Intolerance has done damage

Has anyone done anything positive?

Mastade and Aran's raids were a highlight
Gahn's solo zone was good
The Back to Agramon threads were a highlight (for some)
There was some fun to be had in IRvR (for some)

Roxanna - its a nice idea but looks like it is just too fragmented here to be able to get people to sign up to anything.

Mansich has a point about Mythic as for GOA they have had very poor resources to be able to deal with the community side of things better I think. Yet we pay to play. Ho hum a right conundrum that one.

what about the spirit of the game?
is the spirit of the game to take relics when non to defend keeps and relics is online ?

i can agree on several points roxanna but xplain me this :

on AC raids i agree totally , the majority peeps who r leavin atm cous over the past year (and such) alot of hibs (including me) had 2 clean up all the dmg AC raiders did on hibernia keeps and such when you gettin home in the afternoon from work (alot even in weekend)

now i think this is the case for alot of peeps on hibernia side who r tired of comin home days work to see lot of hib keeps either red? or relics taken (talkin mainly of AC times atm)

now this is me speakin im not in the mood comin home from work to see couple special twrs around crim or nged taken , and hibs (tried it alot last several months) to even try to get port open with the kinda majority or little hibs that were left to fid out a huuuuuuge albzerg stuck in a twr farming us for rps and we gotta release , try again and eventually log in vain cous we get tired of it

now this might seem alot of fun for those who r campin the twr (specially with uther disguisted range scouts have) but not for those who simple try to open port , on one side you might say? yes its part of the game , but on the other side i think alot of peeps even if your on mid/alb or hib will log after you try take several times same twr to see a load huge zerg inside

personally? i think those twrs r killin the game , and ofc the continuous AC raids , and yes (even i not afraid to admit it) start to whine on FH when we get frustrated

but on a side note i must say i hate leavin my chars behind , yes i moved to US server but i think i can speak for alot who did same (moving to another server i mean) who r tired of this and tbh? i dont reagreat moving it finally found alot of fun back wich i lost playin on cluster server with the clueless AC raiders who think who r having fun apparently

only thing i can say to AC raiders atm is , why you guys arent moving to US if you all have such crappy playtimes? i mean RvR over there is 24/7 not like over here to fight guards to take keeps , i must say the community on US is different ye , specially when you see alb zergs or any zerg NOT campin bridges or keeps but moving together/roamin and farm the rps

i know we r having an open discussion here so lets keep the flame out of it and discuss it , personal? i left for while , hopefully somethin changes in the future than i should be back but im glad i opened another account even if it is overseas cous im still playin with 95% of my friends i know on it