We put pets down......

[Embattle]

......when in great pain or have a incurable illness but when it comes to people we seem to have real trouble and technically against the law for someone to assist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1682000/1682321.stm

Whats your view on this issue?

 

[Will]

If they can make the choice in sound mind, why not? It's there choice.

But I am the forum liberal.

 

[bigbb]

if you say yes, you open the flood gates, i'm sorry but some people will take this as a licence to kill in effect. It will become hard to prove if people really wanted to commit suicide and tbh she will die anyway, I don't believe killing someone off with a lethal drug is dignity. Who's going to be judge of whether someone wants to die, if they can't speak properly?

If we start playing god, it'll get out of control, leave it to the natural causes.

Yes the media have got a tight grip on this atm and we're all going to be subjected to heart breaking stories, but don't let us be committed to hegemony and just take the bias of the media here, this is an important issue and try, however difficult to form opinions away from the tinted glass window of the media.

/me inserts his £10 worth

 

[Wij]

S'up to you if you wanna die but if you need help to do it how do you prove that you want to die so that those who helped you don't get done for murder afterwards. And vice versa, you've gotta make sure ppl can't get away with "Oh yeh, she definately wanted to die. Break out the will !"

 

[Will]

If people went to court to obtain permission to die, then you wouldn't have the surrent grey area of "She wanted to die, it was her choice" that you have today - it'd be better all round.

 

[bigbb]

exactly, it's gonna be very hard to prove. There will be cases where a person wanted to die couldn't tell, then the person who helps her receives an estate of £2mil. It may well be legitimate but it'll raise eyebrows and cause huge legal battles.

 

[bigbb]

Originally posted by ItchyTrigaFinga
If people went to court to obtain permission to die, then you wouldn't have the surrent grey area of "She wanted to die, it was her choice" that you have today - it'd be better all round.

fair point, but it would have to be restricted to courts saying yes, no one else, this would have to be policed and enforced.

 

[Will]

OK all, vote me Prime Minster, I'll sort all this nonsense out for you. Wait till you hear my policies on sex and drugs.

 

[bigbb]

golly.

that does sound interesting

 

[Wij]

What about old relatives who feel pressured into saying they want to die by greedy bastards in the family. Always tricky is killing


What are your policies on Sex and Drugs then Itchy ?

 

[throdgrain]

peoples motives for encouraging a family members euthanasia are always going to be the problem regarding such issues.if i died my wife would be loaded ,same as many ppl's,mortgage paid off,insurance etc.
what about some old person who's relative may want thier house or whatever?

 

[bigbigt0]

Originally posted by bigbb
/me inserts his £10 worth

tenner woh

 

[Will]

My policies on sex and drugs...

Sex

Well, age of consent for everyone to have sex with anyone should be lowered to 16 all round. It's only fair after all.

Free tests for all STD's though the NHS yearly, details not to be passed to life/health insurance companies.

Prostitution to be legalised, but only in brothels, not on the street, since that can cause problems with local residants. (I live in Edinburgh, where it is already decriminalised, and the streetwalking areas still cause complaints, the massage parlours don't)

Sex education in schools, starting from a very young age - I got mine in Primary 4 (age 8), and it gave me a mature and open attitude to the whole thing.

Drugs

Well, the recent change to cannabis to make it a class C drug is a start, but it's still technically illegal. This is wrong in my opinion, and is harming society. Dope is better for our society than drinking, take the recent European Cup, violence in Belgium, nothing in Holland. The Dutch police said it was all down to the spliffs.
So we need to legalise cannabis totally, and get some cafes started.

Other drugs... This is a bit of a grey area for me. Once upon a time, I thought all drugs should be legal, on reaching a certain age, and passing some medical checkups. But I've experienced a lot since them, not just self-inflicted, but working in areas with bad heroin and temazepam problems. I'd go with a Royal Commision into all drug use, and see what happens with that.


This is my longest every post. You better all vote for me.

 

[old.SunTzu]

Well if she wants to die let her die.....she has been in court to tell them she wanted to die so now they just need to pass a new law, that going to court itchy sounds pretty goo and his views on drugs and sex kick arse.




/votes for itchytrigafinga

 

[bigbb]

I think we do stil have to be very careful here though. In the heat and frustration of a situation such as this rash and sometimes quite stupid decisions can be made. This is one of the core arguements against euthenasia here. In this case it may not be such an issue as it has contined over several months, even years but if we were to make a revolutionary change in the law, even to allow it only under the say so of a court there is still a very prominant risk that people may make a decision and be swept along by the media interest and general effects of the decision and lose sight of exactly why they wanted to live before

A lot of these people can still live a good life they can not at the time visualise. The situation will put them under imeasurable strain and pressure, they could find themselves sacrificing a life worth living without realising it.

In my opinion it's still a highly flamable situation whether it be this case, or any future ones of its kind. I still don't think, even with Itchy's campaigning we should allow these flood gates to open, people react differently in heated and abnormal situations, even over a period of time.

/me puts a further £10 in

 

[Will]

Well, I'd like to think that our law lords can make an sensible and informed decision, and it would probably have to be applied for though a doctor and a psychiatrist.

I personally think this should only apply to terminally ill people, suffering from incurable pain. When your life isn't worth living, and doctors can offer no hope, I think it is a basic right to be able to choose whether you can live on with it.

The court system I suggested is to try to stop the "kill my ill relative, claim euthenasia, collect will" scenario.

 

[bigbb]

I have no problem with the concept your proposing, I have doubt whether it wil be successful. Shrinks and doctors, are supposed "experts" yes, but whether they can really determine, accurately and coherently with second opinions agreeing with their analysis is just another story. I think it'll be too difficutlt to really know.

This still doesn't put pay to my thought that people who are terminally ill may not realise, or be able to visualise a good life anymore. I would put to you that infact there is a good life for these people and i'm sure there are under publicised case's where people have survived through the thinking that they want to kill themselves and gained a good life worth living.

the media bandwagon doesn't necessarily represent these people but I do think there is a possibility of a life for them, and saying 'yes' to death when they can't see any other way 'at the time' may be playing with dangerous fire, which people just couldn't bring back to life if the situation changed.

 

[Embattle]

It's not illegal to commit suicide....although then again you can't haul a dead person into court.

Certain terminal illnesses are incurable now or in the foreseeable future and thus I have great doubt that they'll have a good life since they often have big side effects.

 

[Deebs]

Ok,

my take on this :

a) I have made the following wish clear now to all my family members/partners/relatives

1) If I become a veg turn the machine off
2) If I become completely paralysed (ie everything!), end my life

So, basically I do not want an active mind in a useless body. I recoil at the thought, and think that it would be better all round if i was not around. I dont want my mum (etc) wiping my arse, holding my willy when i need a wee, not knowing my needs.

I made this wish several years ago, before I had life insurance, any wealth (still aint got any ). So what is wrong with me choosing to die if those conditions above ever happen?

 

[bigbb]

nothing at all, if you've made your wishes before any situation arises I see no reason to obstruct it. That's not my arguement.

 

[bigbb]

Originally posted by Embattle
It's not illegal to commit suicide....although then again you can't haul a dead person into court.

Certain terminal illnesses are incurable now or in the foreseeable future and thus I have great doubt that they'll have a good life since they often have big side effects.

I disagree, the media may not document the success stories but I have no doubt there are. People going on a holiday they've always wanted, retiring to a small house in the lake district. I know it all sounds a bit corny, but think with an open mind. Not all stories of terminal illness end this way and in the heat of the situation, as i've said, decisions could be made that are later to a regret.

 

[Embattle]

I didn't say there weren't, I know of cases where people with terminal cancer have survived but it's not the same at all with motor neurone disease and a number of other diseases like it where the end is often a welcome relief from the pain of living with the disease and thats not a nice thought.

It's easy to think with an open mind when you have the ability to do the basic things like walk, run, , etc these are the things that you take for granted.

 

[bigbb]

Oh I realise that. Neither am I suggesting that if people remain the living dead that a cure will come about. No such thing will happen, althought leaps are being made, it's still years before terminal and crippeling illnesses even begin to be addressed with a cure.

I'm saying that people may not be able to visualise a different life, when their current ideology is shrouded with the imminent death and incapable crippeling they may suffer and I for one do believe for some there is a hope of enjoying a little life, even without the capability to do anything.

i don't know here, i'm not trying to oppress other views, far from it, i'm simply trying to play devils advocate here and address the other side of the argument which rarely gets publicised in the media.

 

[Will]

Exactly (and nice to DBs posting in a non-work-related matter, good man). If I'm a vegetable, I don't want to live with it. Who can blame me?

Various other problems (motor-neurone disease being one I have a close family friend suffering from) cannot be treated, and when life becomes unbearable, I'd rather go out with a little dignity than wait untill the bitter end. Sure, I'd fight it as long as I could, and as long as I was still having good days, it'd be worth staying for them. But I never want to die slowly, after months or years with no quality of life, and I'd like to see the law reflect my choice.

 

[Sawtooth]

You could end up with a load of Dr Harold Shipmens.

Its a dark and dangerous road to condone voluntary euthanaesia. I feel for the family and its bad to die that way but death by and large isn't pleasant.
I'm certainly not looking forward to it myself.

Saw

 

[Will]

Errr, Shipman told OAP's to alter their wills, gave them an overdose of morphine, then faked the death certificates, all on his own. Nothing to do with euthanasia at all.

Wow, I think this almost counts as a flame. This running for Prime Minister really gets my passions up.

 

[bigbb]

I have to say, I agree Saw. I would also question whether dying from lethal drug injection is dignity. I don't know, i'm not going to pretend to have the answers, that's why we're here but I do understand young Itchy's desire to have the law reflect his wishes if necessary. I can understand both sides of the argument, but it's such a difficult one to call in a situation where the judges, especially in this case recent case will feel they're playing god.

 

[Will]

Young Itchy indeed. You young whipper-snapper.

 

[bigbb]

I didn't mean dat to sound patronising, sowwy if it did, it's just somefing I say

 

[Will]

Heheh, I didn't think it was patronising, it's just I compared our ages in the profiles...