United States Corrupt Twattery

[Scouse]

So, something that happened a hundred years ago isn't relevant but a video of how borders in Europe have changed since 400 BC is... Righto.

1) The borders changing video (that goes up to the fall of the USSR - so ukraine actually features as a 'real country' - much more recent) shows that borders change and have always changed - that if one thing is constant it's that humans come up with "reasons" to take territory. Always have, always will.

2) However, past "reasons" have no bearing on current "reasons". The Holomdor and the Katyn massacre - committed by a communist government under a supranational state that no longer exists, with all the protagonists long dead - are exactly as relevant to Oligarch Putin's motivation as the invasion and killing of half the population by the Mongols. Bringing them up as examples and saying "look what Putin will do" is just dumb.

The only illumination that the Katyn massacre and Holomdor, or any of the conflicts that have caused constant border changes on the most war-torn continent on the planet, can bring is to highlight point 1, above: our "reasons" for going to war are just bullshit "reasons" - but we always come up with new ones and think they're good enough. And they are good enough - for us fucking dumb monkeys who like to go to war.

If you could ditch your anger you'd see this shit for what it is - human idiocy. But then, we are what we are - so if the majority could ditch those feelings we wouldn't constantly go to war with each other, for "reasons".

/sigh

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes, we've established that. Nothing works. War is human nature.

The Katyn massacre is as relevant as the Holomdor - something that happened a hundred years ago under the Communist USSR. It's not related to today at all.

The only thing that's related to today is that we're all the same fucking animal, and it's humans that do this sort of shit.

No it's Russians in other people's countries that do that kind of shit to the specific people who've experienced it before (in many cases several times before) and they are still doing it. Will you please fuck off with your whataboutery. We're talking about Ukraine, we're talking about Russia, we're talking about Russia's history and Russia's current behaviour.

 

[Scouse]

No it's Russians in other people's countries that do that kind of shit to the specific people who've experienced it before (in many cases several times before) and they are still doing it. Will you please fuck off with your whataboutery. We're talking about Ukraine, we're talking about Russia, we're talking about Russia's history and Russia's current behaviour.

When you answer my question on what we're going to do with Putin after we've "put him back in his box" then maybe I'd consider what you said above with anything but continued contempt.

It's not Russian history. It's fucking human history. If you recall our German allies started a war that killed 50 million people and put millions in fucking ovens. If history was the arbiter we'd be doing everything we can to not let them arm again.

Or maybe us? We've not covered ourselves in glory recently, but all our wars have "reasons" - even when we'd made those reasons up.

History is irrelevant.

They're not doing it because of history - they're doimg it because they're human. just like you and me. Exactly like you and me.

Now, please explain your plan for what we do when we've put Putin back in his box. Or even - define what "in his box" means.

 

[Scouse]

Oh, and btw - you're the one with the whataboutery (irrelevant Holomdor). i'm not the only one going "but but but what about this thing that happened ages ago..." - you simply dislike context that puts the current conflict in a different (correct) light.

The only thing that matters is what's going on now and what we're going to do about it. We both agree that current affairs matter and our action now is important.

The box plan seems popular, but nobody wants to explain what it actually means.

 

[DaGaffer]

Oh, and btw - you're the one with the whataboutery (irrelevant Holomdor). i'm not the only one going "but but but what about this thing that happened ages ago..." - you simply dislike context that puts the current conflict in a different (correct) light.

The only thing that matters is what's going on now and what we're going to do about it. We both agree that current affairs matter and our action now is important.

The box plan seems popular, but nobody wants to explain what it actually means.

Fucking hell. It's not irrelevant to the Ukrainians you fuckwit! It's as live an issue as the Famine is here, and that was even further back, but is entirely the reason Ireland still doesn't trust the UK to this day. With Russia it's more recent and more relevant because they've never stopped doing that shit, even inside their own borders. Ever seen pictures of Grozny?

 

[Scouse]

I get that @DaGaffer. 100% understand that point. It's not hard to understand. People remember trauma. We still harp on about Ze Germans, actual genuine hatred from some of us, despite none of our fathers ever getting anywhere near WWII.

It's "a" point. I 100% get it.

But it's 100% irrelevant unless we've a plan that works to stop it.

Cooler, calmer, less emotional heads need to prevail. People need to wake the fuck up.

That's what the "ambushing" of Zelensky by Trump and Vance was about. As unfair as it is, he needed to wake up and smell the fucking roses. Shakabuku.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlS_0wNUQg


I am 100% willing to reverse my position on this and say "sorry" to everyone in this thread if anybody can explain this mythical box plan and how it will work.

Until then, I'm hoping you get a bit more Minnie in your life.

 

[Ormorof]

It is not the distant past it's going on right now in occupied areas, the evidence is piling up also from areas Russians have been pushed out of

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ormorof]

I get that @DaGaffer. 100% understand that point. It's not hard to understand. People remember trauma. We still harp on about Ze Germans, actual genuine hatred from some of us, despite none of our fathers ever getting anywhere near WWII.

It's "a" point. I 100% get it.

But it's 100% irrelevant unless we've a plan that works to stop it.

Cooler, calmer, less emotional heads need to prevail. People need to wake the fuck up.

That's what the "ambushing" of Zelensky by Trump and Vance was about. As unfair as it is, he needed to wake up and smell the fucking roses. Shakabuku.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlS_0wNUQg


I am 100% willing to reverse my position on this and say "sorry" to everyone in this thread if anybody can explain this mythical box plan and how it will work.

Until then, I'm hoping you get a bit more Minnie in your life.

No you won't you have literally never changed your mind on anything on these forums, what you will do is write a long waffling response then pick on a single thing someone has said and claim "aha see you won't respond so I'm right" and act all smug about it

I am not posting here to change your mind tbh mostly to yell into the void