United States Corrupt Twattery

[SilverHood]

I guess there's really two types of DEI. I've seen both: Hard targets and preference, and the other, more nuanced view that diversity is good, but not a goal in itself.

One firm I worked at, we had some really low performing staff. But they were both female and a minority, so they counted double on the DEI targets. Senior managers had hard targets (30% women and minority, I think). If they went below that, their bonuses could be impacted. They made sure to stay above that target. It sucked for the rest of us, we had to pickup the slack while they played on their phones. My team wasn't too badly impacted, because we were 12 people, but a friends team was 3 people, and one person not carrying their weight was way more noticeable. When teams dropped below their target, preference would be given so that these hard targets were met. This meant better candidates sometimes lost out. It was no good for everyone involved. The DEI person who made it through this way usually didn't last long either, unable to handle the pressure of working on a trading floor.

At my current firm, a large part of DEI is just getting candidates in the door for the interview. The tendency is to just hire more of what you already have, and while that works to a certain extent, it's also somewhat limiting. We want to see candidates from a wide array of backgrounds, and then we chose the best candidate. Where DEI really comes in here, is that we often have junior dev entry level roles that do not require any experience except an IT degree and some sort of work experience or internship. Prior to the DEI program, it was all just white males from the Tri-state area. Afterwards, it was a bit more diverse, but no one lost out because some target had to be hit. Now that the program has been in place for 10+ years, one of the biggest things we're noticing, is that attracting top tier talent that isn't white male is much easier. They interview, they come see the office, and notice that it's not an office full of white males, and they're way more likely to join us. Having a well structured DEI program is a competitive advantage as a recruiting tool. If it didn't make sense from a return on investment point of view, it would have been scrapped a long time ago, but it works for us, so it's staying.

 

[Scouse]

Where DEI really comes in here, is that we often have junior dev entry level roles that do not require any experience except an IT degree and some sort of work experience or internship. Prior to the DEI program, it was all just white males from the Tri-state area. Afterwards, it was a bit more diverse, but no one lost out because some target had to be hit. Now that the program has been in place for 10+ years, one of the biggest things we're noticing, is that attracting top tier talent that isn't white male is much easier. They interview, they come see the office, and notice that it's not an office full of white males, and they're way more likely to join us. Having a well structured DEI program is a competitive advantage as a recruiting tool. If it didn't make sense from a return on investment point of view, it would have been scrapped a long time ago, but it works for us, so it's staying.

Agree. To a point. But what's happening is that bigger corporates are just hoovering that talent up (and missing out on potentially amazing talent that was filtered out before interview).

Your requirement is an IT degree:



You put a 50/50 DEI-wall in at HR, then hire the best candidate available from the pool you're allowed to choose from. But hell, that's a cushy position to be in if you're on the orange half of that graph eh?

 

[SilverHood]

Agree. To a point. But what's happening is that bigger corporates are just hoovering that talent up (and missing out on potentially amazing talent that was filtered out before interview).

Your requirement is an IT degree:

Chart

You put a 50/50 DEI-wall in at HR, then hire the best candidate available from the pool you're allowed to choose from. But hell, that's a cushy position to be in if you're on the orange half of that graph eh?

Well, it's a free country (for now). Big corps can do whatever they want. If they want to leave amazing talent on the table, that's their choice. DEI was popular with shareholders and clients for a while. It may come back. It may not. I suspect that it will remain in some shape or form for the long term future.

It could be cushy, but as I said earlier, the actual diversity hires I saw failing at my former workplace... it didn't work out for any of them. They were set up to fail and would have been better off working elsewhere. I'm sure some hires I never interacted with made it, and had successful careers because of it. All I'm saying is that that particular implementation of DEI wasn't great for the business (which has since closed).

 

[Raven]

Anyway, all of this is a smokescreen to hide the fact that the US is now under Russian control.

 

[Lamp]

US withdraws military aid from Ukraine and becomes increasingly isolationist
UK, EU, and NATO effectively emasculated
Russia will be able to take massive gains in the East of Ukraine as Ukrainian military supplies run out
Increasing massive losses for Ukraine
EU still holding talks
Zelensky declares Ukraine will resist to the end
Russian forces are increased massively as North Korea and China pledge support to Putin
Russia invades Latvia and Estonia and tells NATO any attack by international forces on Russian troops will absolutely be met by nuclear retaliation
Trump declares the US no longer trusts the EU and withdraws from NATO

 

[Ormorof]

I mean... go visit any war museum in Estonia, they had a defence pack back in 1939 too. With Britain, unfortunately Britain (wisely for them, not great for Estonia) decided not to fight on two fronts. NATO was seen as a way to avoid this fate again, trust in western alliance is very low

 

[Deebs]

Then blind-screen candidates; no names or ages just experience and qualifications until they get to at least interview. I guarantee you wouldn't end up with the the profile you see in the NatWest infographic above; absolutely guarantee it.

When I was hiring and responsible for selecting and interviewing candidates this is what I did. I didn't know who I was interviewing until they were shown into the room.

 

[Scouse]

US withdraws military aid from Ukraine and becomes increasingly isolationist

That has already been done, temporarily at least.

UK, EU, and NATO effectively emasculated

Trump was banging on about EU military capability since his first term. We've not done enough. We should be able to stand on our own two feet - not have to rely on America to bail us out.

I'd say America won't ditch us but maybe they will. Who knows. I suspect (strongly) that this is just politiking - forcing the EU to beef up it's independence and reduce it's reliance on the US.

Russia will be able to take massive gains in the East of Ukraine as Ukrainian military supplies run out

Lets be clear on this - Russia will take massive gains in the East of Ukraine after the United States stops funding continued war that has already taken a million casualties.

This was made clear in the very first month of the war. The EU & UK have been pushing a fantasy that there's a scenario that doesn't involve some of this. The United States is responsible for the fact that there is still a Ukraine to talk about.

The alternative is that the US continues to fund and supply Ukraine and hundreds of thousands of more people will die. Anyone advocating for this, rather than pragmatically sucking the "stop the killing" dick doesn't really care about people's lives. (Maybe people would feel differently if it was their own kids getting killed eh?)

A month into the conflict we were told in no uncertain terms that both the West and Russia come out of this feeling like shit. This is what that looks like.


This isn't "American corrupt twattery" - it's reality. America was never going to spend an unlimited amount of money to stop Putin taking some land in Eastern Europe. 350 billion so far. That's money that could have been spent on American healthcare, or social programs (or more likely, put directly into oligarch's pockets - but whatever). This was Europe's mess to fix and we can't do it. It's been a lesson in standing on our own two feet. We've had since the second world war to get ready, and we've abrograted our responsibility because we've been relying, like children, on handouts from mummy and daddy.

Zelensky declares Ukraine will resist to the end

Nah. He's had his spat. He'll be back. He'll sign the agreement and he'll continue on to negotiations.

There'll be an election held when it comes to the agreement to officially end the war hand over large parts of Ukraine in perpituity to Russia - mostly east of the Dnipro in the predominantly Russian speaking locations (where they'll be free to teach lessons in their first tongue again). We'll all moan about it, but then it'll be done.

Then the killing will stop and the Ukranians can go about their lives without worrying about drone attacks on schools.

Russian forces are increased massively as North Korea and China pledge support to Putin
Russia invades Latvia and Estonia and tells NATO any attack by international forces on Russian troops will absolutely be met by nuclear retaliation

Nah. It's cost Russia a lot this. Don't buy it.

Trump declares the US no longer trusts the EU and withdraws from NATO

Like I said - I think it's highly unlikely.

However - if we don't sort our ideology out (actual real democracy rather than shutting out voices we don't like) and a return freedom of speech and expression (maybe we could re-instate peaceful protest in the UK, that would be a good start) - then why would the US help us? We're turning culturally authoritarian and it's ugly.

 

[Tom]

350 billion so far. That's money that could have been spent on American healthcare,

This figure is not true. And lets not forget that it isn't bags of cash being sent there, it's existing weaponry that the USA would have replaced anyway. A good deal of what the USA has "spent" in Ukraine is actually going to military suppliers in.....the USA.

 

[Scouse]

This figure is not true. And lets not forget that it isn't bags of cash being sent there, it's existing weaponry that the USA would have replaced anyway. A good deal of what the USA has "spent" in Ukraine is actually going to military suppliers in.....the USA.

Meh. Whatever the figure is and however it was spent, Ukraine still exists because of America, not Europe. A) Should America go on keeping Ukraine afloat indefinitely to the 'last man'? and, B) do you really think there was ever a scenario where Putin got no land?

When should the war end Tom? How many more people need to die?

 

[Bodhi]

There seems to be a genuinely wilful self-imposed blind spot here - I'm looking at you @Raven, @Tom, @Embattle.

America (for good or bad, the reason why matters not) has made the accusation that the Europe is retreating from it's Free Speech principles. The very birthplace of the Englightenment - "I detest what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it" - is Europe.

And I posted this:

Football fan banned for shouting homophobic slur 'willing to make amends'

A fan who was convicted of shouting a homophobic slur at a football ground tells BBC Sport why he wants to make amends.

www.bbc.co.uk

And all that's happening - after a direct question of "do they have a point" - is a collective howl at the moon whilst you talk about anything but the subject at hand.


So lets face it: America does have a point. Europe is retreating from it's enlightenment principles - with the consent of the majority of it's population.

Orange man is indeed bad. And it makes you feel good to collectively howl about that. I get it.

But no free speech is worse.

If it helps, I entirely agree with you. Everyone howled at the moon when Vance made his speech, and then most of Europe and the UK spent the next two weeks proving him entirely correct. Witness the recent story in the UK of someone getting a visit from Plod after criticising a Labour councillor on Facebook.


Mind you are are dealing with extreme level geniuses who won't buy a Tesla due to an unfortunate gesture from the CEO, but went out and bought a FUCKING VOLKSWAGEN instead. If you think Musk is bad, wait til you hear about their founder.

 

[Bodhi]

Only a few weeks ago the Model 3 was top of my list for a replacement car. As soon as he did that salute - fuck that. As long as he's CEO, I'll never buy a Tesla.

Just in case it wasn't obvious who I was talking about.

@Tom so because you though Musk was a Nazi (he isn't but nm) you went out and bought a far inferior car plagued with software issues and ergonomic disasters made by a company that was founded by ACTUAL Nazis.

Smooth brained midwittery at its finest I'm afraid.

 

[Raven]

Musk isn't a Nazi, he is just a cunt, and he thought his dim witted, howling cultists would find it funny, they did. The markets, not so much.

He needs to lay off the special K and start taking his ADHD/autism meds, or whatever his mum claims he has.

 

[Scouse]

Witness the recent story in the UK of someone getting a visit from Plod after criticising a Labour councillor on Facebook.

Wow. Wasn't aware of that one. Just looked it up - the po-po turning up at someone's door and freely admitting that no crime had been committed. Looks like it was because the complainant was a politician - so the po-po turned up.

We are supposed to be able to live our lives totally free from interaction with the police if we're acting in a law-abiding manner. This absolutely fits the definition of oppression. Stazi-style police turning up at your door.

People need to look away from the sideshow that is the united states and look at the Britain we're building.

 

[Scouse]

a company that was founded by ACTUAL Nazis.

Pretty sure they're not nazi's any more though.

@Tom's refusal to buy a Tesla is a rational decision if he thinks Musk is a cunt*.


*Edit: As long as he thinks a company that was guilty of criminally dodging emissions tests is less cunty than Musk.

 

[Ormorof]

Then the killing will stop and the Ukranians can go about their lives without worrying about drone attacks on schools.

Until the next attack, that's how Putin has operated all along, by keeping countries in Russias sphere perpetually bogged down with disputed areas he locks them out of EU and NATO until he can take over more of a country, Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine all suffering with this. Baltics and Finland would be too if it wasn't for EU and NATO

 

[BloodOmen]

Shame that shooter missed Trump, honestly. Zelensky didn't kiss the emperors ring finger and suck off his court jester Musk so now the entire Ukraine is being punished because Trumps little feelings are hurt.

 

[Scouse]

Until the next attack, that's how Putin has operated all along, by keeping countries in Russias sphere perpetually bogged down with disputed areas he locks them out of EU and NATO until he can take over more of a country, Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine all suffering with this. Baltics and Finland would be too if it wasn't for EU and NATO

What's your suggestion then @Ormorof? How should this be handled?

 

[Ormorof]

What's your suggestion then @Ormorof? How should this be handled?

Peace with security guarantees, UN peacekeepers at the very least

The current deal Trump and his goons are proposing us "give us money, give Putin land, suck it up" which won't work there's nothing for Ukraine there except more death in the future

 

[Tom]

Just in case it wasn't obvious who I was talking about.

@Tom so because you though Musk was a Nazi (he isn't but nm) you went out and bought a far inferior car plagued with software issues and ergonomic disasters made by a company that was founded by ACTUAL Nazis.

Smooth brained midwittery at its finest I'm afraid.

Actual Nazis who are all dead, and whose company renounced what they did, and apologised, and made reparations.

Has Musk done any of that? You know, inbetween supporting far-right white nationalists on Twitter, or championing the AFD?

He's a racist Nazi fuck and he needs to fuckoff into the sun, preferably on a rocket flight gone wrong.

 

[Tom]

Meh. Whatever the figure is and however it was spent, Ukraine still exists because of America, not Europe. A) Should America go on keeping Ukraine afloat indefinitely to the 'last man'? and, B) do you really think there was ever a scenario where Putin got no land?

When should the war end Tom? How many more people need to die?

You'd have been right at home with Neville Chamberlain. And just as wrong.

 

[DaGaffer]

You'd have been right at home with Neville Chamberlain. And just as wrong.

Neville Chamberlain at least bought time, giving Putin land now gives fuck all; certainly not a lasting peace. No-one will invest in Ukraine with the threat of a new Russian invasion hanging over the country like a bad smell. So further declines in population and spiral of increased poverty on the EU's borders. Not so great for peace but brilliant for American carpetbaggers and Russian oligarchs.

 

[Bodhi]

Actual Nazis who are all dead, and whose company renounced what they did, and apologised, and made reparations.

Has Musk done any of that? You know, inbetween supporting far-right white nationalists on Twitter, or championing the AFD?

He's a racist Nazi fuck and he needs to fuckoff into the sun, preferably on a rocket flight gone wrong.

Then, as @Scouse pointed out, reverted to type by starting to gas people again with their "clean" TDIs.

 

[Scouse]

Maybe try to answer the questions @Tom?

How many people need to die? Is there a line or a number where you go "OK that's enough"? Do you honestly think America was ever going to bottom-lessly fund a war?

I mean I've got no kids, but a million casualties sounds like a fuck of a lot of people killed and injured to me. That's a lot of parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters crying into the soil. When is enough?

Going to throw your kids into the grinder @DaGaffer? Same questions to you...

 

[Scouse]

BTW - I just watched the whole Trump / Zelensky interview. The full 50 or so minutes. Yep, there's a lot of bluster, yep, there's a lot of Trump grandstanding. There's a lot of really good points made by Zelensky too.

But it was no hit-job or political trap by Vance and Trump as it's being sold in our media. Given they were there "for show" to sign an agreement Zelensky clearly overstepped the brief. Watching all of that I think Vance and Trump were right to slap him down. - not that Zelensky was making technically incorrect points, but that absolutely wasn't the forum for it.

Zelensky's rowed back now. As predicted. Could be because the arms from America were paused.

And the Europeans, who can't defend themselves or countries on their borders, howl that this is all America's fault. Why didn't mummy and daddy save us from the bad man?

 

[Scouse]

Believe them or not - this is an important question - from 34:40 > 36:29.


View: https://youtu.be/UhFqdAZ9Xnw?t=2080


For me, this is more important than whether Putin gets some land. Because if Europe continues down the path that we're treading, Putin need not even invade us to turn all our lives to shit.

 

[Gwadien]

Believe them or not - this is an important question - from 34:40 > 36:29.


View: https://youtu.be/UhFqdAZ9Xnw?t=2080


For me, this is more important than whether Putin gets some land. Because if Europe continues down the path that we're treading, Putin need not even invade us to turn all our lives to shit.

Peace for land, yes, not like this though...

Why are you OK with Trump opening the door to Europe for Russia? They're clearly going to have a pop.

 

[BloodOmen]

Peace with security guarantees, UN peacekeepers at the very least

The current deal Trump and his goons are proposing us "give us money, give Putin land, suck it up" which won't work there's nothing for Ukraine there except more death in the future

Yea... he's basically appeasing Putin with that deal because Putin gets a way out of the war without looking weak-er, he gets to keep the land he's already grabbed and Trump gets a shit load of minerals for the USA.

Fucking crook.

 

[Raven]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZiyPR1seag

 

[Scouse]

Watching Starmer is like watching a live video of Milliband eating bacon butties on repeat isn't it @Raven

Anyway:

Peace for land, yes, not like this though...

What like then? Specifically.

Sucking a dick that you don't want to suck is always going to be unpleasant. This is exactly what it was always going to feel like.

Why are you OK with Trump opening the door to Europe for Russia? They're clearly going to have a pop.

So you think Putin's going to invade NATO countries do you?

I mean, he's been there for more than two and a half decades, but because Trump has decided to end a war that's caused a million casualties Putin's going to invade us?

Why now?