United States Corrupt Twattery

[Scouse]

So, something that happened a hundred years ago isn't relevant but a video of how borders in Europe have changed since 400 BC is... Righto.

1) The borders changing video (that goes up to the fall of the USSR - so ukraine actually features as a 'real country' - much more recent) shows that borders change and have always changed - that if one thing is constant it's that humans come up with "reasons" to take territory. Always have, always will.

2) However, past "reasons" have no bearing on current "reasons". The Holomdor and the Katyn massacre - committed by a communist government under a supranational state that no longer exists, with all the protagonists long dead - are exactly as relevant to Oligarch Putin's motivation as the invasion and killing of half the population by the Mongols. Bringing them up as examples and saying "look what Putin will do" is just dumb.

The only illumination that the Katyn massacre and Holomdor, or any of the conflicts that have caused constant border changes on the most war-torn continent on the planet, can bring is to highlight point 1, above: our "reasons" for going to war are just bullshit "reasons" - but we always come up with new ones and think they're good enough. And they are good enough - for us fucking dumb monkeys who like to go to war.

If you could ditch your anger you'd see this shit for what it is - human idiocy. But then, we are what we are - so if the majority could ditch those feelings we wouldn't constantly go to war with each other, for "reasons".

/sigh

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes, we've established that. Nothing works. War is human nature.

The Katyn massacre is as relevant as the Holomdor - something that happened a hundred years ago under the Communist USSR. It's not related to today at all.

The only thing that's related to today is that we're all the same fucking animal, and it's humans that do this sort of shit.

No it's Russians in other people's countries that do that kind of shit to the specific people who've experienced it before (in many cases several times before) and they are still doing it. Will you please fuck off with your whataboutery. We're talking about Ukraine, we're talking about Russia, we're talking about Russia's history and Russia's current behaviour.

 

[Scouse]

No it's Russians in other people's countries that do that kind of shit to the specific people who've experienced it before (in many cases several times before) and they are still doing it. Will you please fuck off with your whataboutery. We're talking about Ukraine, we're talking about Russia, we're talking about Russia's history and Russia's current behaviour.

When you answer my question on what we're going to do with Putin after we've "put him back in his box" then maybe I'd consider what you said above with anything but continued contempt.

It's not Russian history. It's fucking human history. If you recall our German allies started a war that killed 50 million people and put millions in fucking ovens. If history was the arbiter we'd be doing everything we can to not let them arm again.

Or maybe us? We've not covered ourselves in glory recently, but all our wars have "reasons" - even when we'd made those reasons up.

History is irrelevant.

They're not doing it because of history - they're doimg it because they're human. just like you and me. Exactly like you and me.

Now, please explain your plan for what we do when we've put Putin back in his box. Or even - define what "in his box" means.

 

[Scouse]

Oh, and btw - you're the one with the whataboutery (irrelevant Holomdor). i'm not the only one going "but but but what about this thing that happened ages ago..." - you simply dislike context that puts the current conflict in a different (correct) light.

The only thing that matters is what's going on now and what we're going to do about it. We both agree that current affairs matter and our action now is important.

The box plan seems popular, but nobody wants to explain what it actually means.

 

[DaGaffer]

Oh, and btw - you're the one with the whataboutery (irrelevant Holomdor). i'm not the only one going "but but but what about this thing that happened ages ago..." - you simply dislike context that puts the current conflict in a different (correct) light.

The only thing that matters is what's going on now and what we're going to do about it. We both agree that current affairs matter and our action now is important.

The box plan seems popular, but nobody wants to explain what it actually means.

Fucking hell. It's not irrelevant to the Ukrainians you fuckwit! It's as live an issue as the Famine is here, and that was even further back, but is entirely the reason Ireland still doesn't trust the UK to this day. With Russia it's more recent and more relevant because they've never stopped doing that shit, even inside their own borders. Ever seen pictures of Grozny?

 

[Scouse]

I get that @DaGaffer. 100% understand that point. It's not hard to understand. People remember trauma. We still harp on about Ze Germans, actual genuine hatred from some of us, despite none of our fathers ever getting anywhere near WWII.

It's "a" point. I 100% get it.

But it's 100% irrelevant unless we've a plan that works to stop it.

Cooler, calmer, less emotional heads need to prevail. People need to wake the fuck up.

That's what the "ambushing" of Zelensky by Trump and Vance was about. As unfair as it is, he needed to wake up and smell the fucking roses. Shakabuku.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlS_0wNUQg


I am 100% willing to reverse my position on this and say "sorry" to everyone in this thread if anybody can explain this mythical box plan and how it will work.

Until then, I'm hoping you get a bit more Minnie in your life.

 

[Ormorof]

It is not the distant past it's going on right now in occupied areas, the evidence is piling up also from areas Russians have been pushed out of

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ormorof]

I get that @DaGaffer. 100% understand that point. It's not hard to understand. People remember trauma. We still harp on about Ze Germans, actual genuine hatred from some of us, despite none of our fathers ever getting anywhere near WWII.

It's "a" point. I 100% get it.

But it's 100% irrelevant unless we've a plan that works to stop it.

Cooler, calmer, less emotional heads need to prevail. People need to wake the fuck up.

That's what the "ambushing" of Zelensky by Trump and Vance was about. As unfair as it is, he needed to wake up and smell the fucking roses. Shakabuku.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlS_0wNUQg


I am 100% willing to reverse my position on this and say "sorry" to everyone in this thread if anybody can explain this mythical box plan and how it will work.

Until then, I'm hoping you get a bit more Minnie in your life.

No you won't you have literally never changed your mind on anything on these forums, what you will do is write a long waffling response then pick on a single thing someone has said and claim "aha see you won't respond so I'm right" and act all smug about it

I am not posting here to change your mind tbh mostly to yell into the void

 

[Scouse]

No you won't you have literally never changed your mind on anything on these forums,

I've changed my mind and apologised and pointed it out clearly multiple times on this very forum.

Everyone here is "put putun back in his box" but nobody will explains what that means.

It's the minimum level of explanation required.

But nobody can do it, because you've no fucking idea. No idea. No plan. Just braying moronity wanting continued war, with no end and no objective.

 

[Gwadien]

I've changed my mind and apologised and pointed it out clearly multiple times on this very forum.

Everyone here is "put putun back in his box" but nobody will explains what that means.

It's the minimum level of explanation required.

But nobody can do it, because you've no fucking idea. No idea. No plan. Just braying moronity wanting continued war, with no end and no objective.

It means not giving him what he wants.

The problem is that you seem to think Trump wants global peace, he doesn't care if there is or isn't he's made it abundantly clear that he doesn't want to get involved.

All he cares about is making money and peace with Russia makes money.

Europeans want Russia to get rid of Putin for a return for normal relations, America doesn't care because they have a big ocean inbetween them.

 

[Scouse]

Jeesus fucking christ just answer the fucking question.

I've stated it about five times. Read up.

 

[Raven]

Trump bemoans a painting of him - but gets a new one from Putin

The US president is unhappy with a "distorted" portrait in Colorado, but "touched" by a gift from Russia.

www.bbc.co.uk

ffs, is anyone still pretending that America is an ally?

Time to cancel all contracts, tell the dickheads to vacate their bases.

 

[Scouse]

So, does anyone think that "accidentally" copying in a journalist from the Atlantic into a signal group was anything other than a deliberate act?

Look what's being read across Europe now:





If you want Europeans to read this sort of messaging, then one sure-fire way would be to deliberately leak stuff that appears to have no operational risk in as scandalous a fashion as possible.

It'd certainly help a longer term european agenda.

 

[BloodOmen]

"Freeloading" I think its time Europe collectively starts making massive US tech companies pay taxes they've been dodging for over a decade if they want to talk about freeloading.

 

[Scouse]

"Freeloading" I think its time Europe collectively starts making massive US tech companies pay taxes they've been dodging for over a decade if they want to talk about freeloading.

I think people are getting a bit butthurt over the language here.

We're not capable of defending ourselves. The US has been effectively funding our defence. That seems like freeloading to me.

Taxes are a separate argument - we've had the ability to set our tax for a long time. It's our own fault that we haven't. Just like it's our own fault that we can't defend ourselves.

 

[Scouse]

Come on @Embattle. Tell us your opinion.

 

[Ormorof]

Options aren't great, either it was on purpose and they are trying to stir shit and be assholes, or they are just dumbasses

Considering Pete Hegseths record i suspect the latter, he's an alcoholic who can barely tie his own shoes

 

[DaGaffer]

So, does anyone think that "accidentally" copying in a journalist from the Atlantic into a signal group was anything other than a deliberate act?

Look what's being read across Europe now:

View attachment 50181

View attachment 50182

If you want Europeans to read this sort of messaging, then one sure-fire way would be to deliberately leak stuff that appears to have no operational risk in as scandalous a fashion as possible.

It'd certainly help a longer term european agenda.

Don't assume Machiavellian genius when basic dumb-fuckery will do.

European governments already know the MAGA agenda, this does nothing that wasn't already out there.

NB. "Freeloading"? First rule of modern warfare, don't fight on your own doorstep where your own stuff is more likely to get broken. The Americans have been in Europe since 1945 to serve their own interests. It wasn't altruism, it was pragmatism, and for most of that period they absolutely did not want strong European militaries, quite the reverse in fact, they wanted them as dependent client states

 

[Scouse]

Don't disagree with much of what you said there @DaGaffer. In fact, I'm 100% with you on the fact that America has historically wanted us to be involved, but not independent. I still think that's actually the case - but they've clearly been on a "you need to spend more" train for a while now.

However, I whilst it still might be dumb-fuckery it might be deliberate - and if it is, it's for the European public, not for the governments.

I think for as long as I've been alive, it's been popular to hate on America and Americans. They've been taking a panning in Europe. However, I think over the past decade or so it's increased. Their point about Europe "retreating from democracy" and "scared of free speech", I think it's pertinent. We hate their brashness and "we're the best" shit - it literally offends us in Britain because we kind of pull for the underdog, and the US never acts like the underdog. Trump is the physical embodiment of that brash American style. But we've got members of the European public saying lets bitch the US off, and governments that are clearly deliberately eroding our liberties over time.

This could be another public pop at European governments, played for the benefit of European people.

Meh. Or it could be dumb fuckery.

 

[Tom]

Nobody is freeloading. The USA is an empire. It has military outposts across the world. The USA wants this, and benefits from it by being the world's police officer. It benefits from free trade, stable economies, etc etc. If it no longer wishes to be the world's police officer then it's perfectly entitled to step back and simultaneously lose the benefits of its empire.

 

[Tom]

So, does anyone think that "accidentally" copying in a journalist from the Atlantic into a signal group was anything other than a deliberate act?

They've appointed the least-qualified and stupidest people they can to positions of importance. People who've basically kissed Trump's arse for years, and who are now being rewarded for it. There's nothing calculated or planned about any of it - they're simply stupid cunts who've been caught doing something indefensible. Which is why they're all now attacking the reporter's character.

I hope that reporter sues as many of them as he can for libel.

 

[Scouse]

Nobody is freeloading. The USA is an empire. It has military outposts across the world. The USA wants this, and benefits from it by being the world's police officer. It benefits from free trade, stable economies, etc etc. If it no longer wishes to be the world's police officer then it's perfectly entitled to step back and simultaneously lose the benefits of its empire.

I agree with Gaff, that the USA wanted this. But now they're saying "pay more for the protection you receive". Freeloading is a loaded term, but it's clear that the US wants it's allies to take a more active role. Whether it wants a fully independent role is unknown.

But it's in our gift to be independent. And if we choose not to do that, to rely on the US and it's well-funded military, then to a certain definition that could be reasonably called freeloading. We also benefit from free trade, stable economies etc. etc.

They've appointed the least-qualified and stupidest people they can to positions of importance. People who've basically kissed Trump's arse for years, and who are now being rewarded for it. There's nothing calculated or planned about any of it - they're simply stupid cunts who've been caught doing something indefensible. Which is why they're all now attacking the reporter's character.

I mean. It's a possibility isn't it. But your guess is only as good as mine.

 

[Raven]

If the language used here doesn't scare people, then nothing will.

Trump targets 'anti-American ideology' at Smithsonian museums

The order says that "divisive narratives" must be purged from the US museums and research centres.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Gwadien]

America didn't engage in slavery, put him up against the wall.

 

[Scouse]

Trump's order says that Congress should not fund Smithsonian exhibits and programmes that "divide Americans by race". It alleges that the American Women's History Museum, which is in development, plans to "recognize men as women".

It also singles out the National Museum of African American History and Culture, saying that the museum "has proclaimed that 'hard work,' 'individualism,' and 'the nuclear family' are aspects of 'White culture'.

It's simply consistent with what they said they'd do when voted in.

Basically, it's defunding the Guardian and it's cunty asshattery.

When they reference the "woke 'mind virus'" they basically are decrying a DEI ideology that tries to better the world by separating people and complaining about how people were treated differently - their ideology is one where we're not supposed to care about colour - we're supposed to be colourblind.

YMMV. But I don't see it as anything more sinister as DEI or the grinding leftist inherently racist idiocy that's been gaining traction for three decades.

 

[DaGaffer]

It's simply consistent with what they said they'd do when voted in.

Basically, it's defunding the Guardian and it's cunty asshattery.

When they reference the "woke 'mind virus'" they basically are decrying a DEI ideology that tries to better the world by separating people and complaining about how people were treated differently - their ideology is one where we're not supposed to care about colour - we're supposed to be colourblind.

YMMV. But I don't see it as anything more sinister as DEI or the grinding leftist inherently racist idiocy that's been gaining traction for three decades.

Which would be fine if they really were just about being colour blind etc. but when stories of black Medal of Honor winners are being stripped off government websites because they are "DEI propaganda" you know what the real agenda is.

Like it or not, white Americans really haven't taken to the idea of facing up to their past, and the Maga answer is to pretend it didn't happen, which will eventually became "deny it ever happened". Historical revisionism is rampant on both sides of the American political divide, but it's more dangerous on the right.

 

[Scouse]

Which would be fine if they really were just about being colour blind etc. but when stories of black Medal of Honor winners are being stripped off government websites because they are "DEI propaganda" you know what the real agenda is.

Like it or not, white Americans really haven't taken to the idea of facing up to their past, and the Maga answer is to pretend it didn't happen, which will eventually became "deny it ever happened". Historical revisionism is rampant on both sides of the American political divide, but it's more dangerous on the right.

Again, I find a lot of depressing agreement with you. With the exception of from the right's revisionism being "more dangerous". I think whilst the potential outcomes of both are different, they're equally dangerous.

However, we are raging quite rightly about Trump idiocy, but we have been quietly compliant about the disgusting stuff the "left" has foisted on us for over three decades. More than that, not just compliant, complicit. The "mind virus" has indeed taken hold. So whilst I absolutely agree that the motivation of Trump and his cronies isn't pure and 'whiter than white', I think if it tanks the cunty ideology, or at least significantly sets it back, then the outcome will be better than if it didn't happen.

Trump's not going to be there forever (as much as the cunties are trying to scare us into believing that he is). Cunty ideology can and will still have a significant hold. This current pushback is happening because the left have been pushing DEI, white privilege, financial restitution for black communities for stuff that nobody alive today had anything to do with, sexual politics, radical gender ideology, yadda yadda yadda for three decades now and a lot of people fucking hate it. And not only do they hate it, but they're right to do so.

Of course, it's the economy stupid. But in the absence of financial stability and a decent economic platform for all, we'll continue to fight over the above.

 

[Scouse]

Here's David Dimbelby's take on Trumps protectionist economic policies:

I thought the free market was forever - then Trump came along

Why the reign of the free market is facing its biggest ever challenge

www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting read.

 

[Deebs]

The only good thing about the word trump is that when I was a young child Mum would say "Have you done a trump?" meaning had I farted.