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[Scouse]

100% agree with this and have been pilloried for raising it on here before. Most of my wifes family, and a few of my aunties and uncles work in the NHS and as far as they're all concerned its completely fucked beyond repair.

Cuba's Health Care System: a Model for the World

In praising Cuba, the World Health Organization stresses that it is possible for Third-world countries with limited resources to implement an efficient health care system and provide all segments of the population with social protection worthy of the name.

www.huffpost.com

In the absence of huge resources and a focus on prevention, not cure, under the Cuban system your child is more likely to make it to 5 years old than if you live in the US or Canada.

Lots of fit, slim, well-nourished people in Cuba who's doctors visit them regularly and know the ins and outs of their lives and steer them towards health rather than push pills at them when they turn up sick.

 

[Scouse]

There's a reason for the "fanaticism" about the NHS and it comes down to "do you trust any British government to change it for the better?" And bluntly, the answer is "no".

This.

 

[Bodhi]

There's a reason for the "fanaticism" about the NHS and it comes down to "do you trust any British government to change it for the better?" And bluntly, the answer is "no". The Germans and French can have an insurance based system because it was enabled back in the days when trust and competence were broadly expected of our politicians and usually delivered (the Germans are now just as incompetent as the British, just in different specialist subjects); that's really not the case any more. Using a relevant example, we brought in compulsory health insurance to help the HSE in Ireland a few years back, and it's fucking useless. All it does it let the insurance companies peel off the lucrative bits (most elective surgeries for example) but they stay the fuck away from general medicine, chronic stuff and pediatrics like (*ahem*) the fucking plague. "But that takes the load off public health doesn't it?", I hear you cry. Tell that to the thousands of people on trollies who can't even get into A&E at the moment. Not to mention the absolute minefield of dealing with private hospitals.

Ok, so reform is a bit difficult and the Irish fucked it up, so let's stick with what we have.

Sounds a fucking epic idea.

 

[Scouse]

Nope. All the chronic and long term health costs are down to increases in geriatrics. Did you know that men as a group used to barely touch the NHS at all once they were past 25? It was 15-25 "death by doing something stupid", then nothing, then dead of a heart attack or undiagnosed cancer (because men didn't do doctors) at 65. Now it's a long slow journey through replacement hips, knees, hearts and cancer anyway.

Healthy people don't do that. They're like the men of old you describe - they live longer, healthier and then die quickly.

Better life to faster death. That's what we should be aiming at.

 

[Bodhi]

Healthy people don't do that. They're like the men of old you describe - they live longer, healthier and then die quickly.

Better life to faster death. That's what we should be aiming at.

Speaking from experience this is absolute nonsense. If you miss out on a heart attack/stroke (quick death) or cancer (bit slower) you get into the properly expensive ailments that finish you off - Alzheimer's, Dementia, MND, etc etc.

Although as a random aside, my dad's vice was too much food, and my Nan's was those weird More cigarettes you used to be able to get. Me dad went quickly at 66, me nan went very slowly at 99.

Sounds like I should put the Marlboro down and get a pie instead tbh.

 

[Scouse]

Speaking from experience this is absolute nonsense. If you miss out on a heart attack/stroke (quick death) or cancer (bit slower) you get into the properly expensive ailments that finish you off - Alzheimer's, Dementia, MND, etc etc.

All of which are significantly less prevalent in healthy active people with good diet and lifestyles.

The live longer, in better health, die faster thing is true.

 

[Aoami]

View: https://old.reddit.com/r/KidsAreFuckingStupid/comments/103r2ix/kid_just_lost_his_christmas_spirit/


without wanting to sound like too much of a boomer, if I'd said this to my parents my dad would've battered me - wouldn't have been much laughing i can tell you that much

 

[Raven]

View: https://old.reddit.com/r/KidsAreFuckingStupid/comments/103r2ix/kid_just_lost_his_christmas_spirit/


without wanting to sound like too much of a boomer, if I'd said this to my parents my dad would've battered me - wouldn't have been much laughing i can tell you that much

It would have been taken back to the shop and I wouldn't get anything if I said that.

 

[Scouse]

It would have been taken back to the shop and I wouldn't get anything if I said that.

To be fair, if someone bought me a scooter I'd offer to take it back to the shop myself.

 

[DaGaffer]

Healthy people don't do that. They're like the men of old you describe - they live longer, healthier and then die quickly.

Better life to faster death. That's what we should be aiming at.

They really don't. Like or not, it's just shit wearing out when you get into your 70s. Do you know much hip replacements have increased in the last 20 years? Trebled. 200%. Now that's partly because techniques have gotten easier, but that's still three times as many people rotating through hospitals. And that kind of thing is going on everywhere, from minor procedures to major surgery. Apart from anything else, surgeons simply didn't even bother with lots of surgeries on old people even 20-25 years ago because survival rates weren't favourable, now it's routine, but it still has to be done; that opportunity cost doesn't go away.

 

[Bodhi]

All of which are significantly less prevalent in healthy active people with good diet and lifestyles.

The live longer, in better health, die faster thing is true.

No, it's rubbish you've pulled from your arse as usual.

 

[Scouse]

They really don't. Like or not, it's just shit wearing out when you get into your 70s. Do you know much hip replacements have increased in the last 20 years? Trebled.

Hip and knee replacements* are much more prevalent in, wait for it - fat people. The myth that runners knees wear out isn't borne out by evidence - life-long runners have a lower incidence of knee-replacement surgery.

They're also trivial. You can get your hip done for about 3 grand. Takes 2 hours - and doesn't have longer term knock-on.

What is costing the NHS is long term chronic disease - and the treatment of it. And what's that generally related to? Oh yes, poor diet and lifestyle.

Ain't no getting away from it m8 - with current funding if the population was the same weight as it was in the 70s (with today's smoking rates etc) - then the NHS wouldn't be fucked.


*Edit: in fact, surgical procedures in general

 

[Scouse]

No, it's rubbish you've pulled from your arse as usual.

Coming from someone who literally has to tell himself that it means absolutely dick.

 

[Bodhi]

Coming from someone who literally has to tell himself that it means absolutely dick.

And coming from someone who has provided no proof for his assertions whatsoever, those assertions mean less than dick. I'm not sure what the measurement several leagues below dick is, but it's that tbh.

My guess is in this weird idealistic world you inhabit that if people look after themselves, don't smoke/drink/eat etc etc they will all die peacefully in their sleep of old age, needing nothing more in the run up than the odd paracetamol or tube of Anusol, however from experience, the reality is about as far away from that as is possible.

 

[Embattle]

No we know healthy people get ill, but we also know as a fact that an unhealthy lifestyle has a higher incidence rate of nearly everything...not that I expect people who are stupid enough to defend smoking to accept that fact.

 

[Bodhi]

Being comfortable with the risks of a particular vice vs other vices != defending something.

 

[Scouse]

And coming from someone who has provided no proof for his assertions whatsoever

Been posting scientific studies and articles on it for years m8.

Most of which you've called bullshit on to be fair (not because there was anything wrong - simply because you need to).

 

[Bodhi]

Been posting scientific studies and articles on it for years m8.

Most of which you've called bullshit on to be fair (not because there was anything wrong - simply because you need to).

So it should be easy enough for you to call up a couple of base your latest ramblings on?

No rush, I've just opened a beer and lit a cigarette.

 

[Scouse]

Diabetes is already the biggest disease spend for the NHS.

So it should be easy enough for you to call up a couple of base your latest ramblings on?

No rush, I've just opened a beer and lit a cigarette.

I thought you told me I should use search? Well, there's a FH search function.

But to get you started - the NHS spends about 10% of it's budget on Diabetes, fatties

Evidence has shown that the NHS spends around £10 billion a year on diabetes – around 10% of its entire budget

Imagine that. 4 million people living with entirely preventable type-2 diabetes - which is caused by obesity.

Maybe government should tax the shit out of not-food?

 

[Embattle]

Smoking costs society £17bn – £5bn more than previously estimated - ASH

Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) is a campaigning public health charity that works to eliminate the harm caused by tobacco.

ash.org.uk

 

[Gwadien]

I suspect automation of trains will go as follows;

Tax payers pay for automation

Drivers lose jobs

Prices don't change private companies just make more money.

 

[Ormorof]

I suspect automation of trains will go as follows;

Tax payers pay for automation

Drivers lose jobs

Prices don't change private companies just make more money.

Thats the way it works baby

 

[Embattle]

I suspect automation of trains will go as follows;

Tax payers pay for automation

Drivers lose jobs

Prices don't change private companies just make more money.

I suspect this was supposed to be in the politics thread

 

[Gwadien]

I suspect this was supposed to be in the politics thread

True say, fuck knows what happened there

 

[Tom]

Ignoring the conspiracy woo that makes up most of your post - I'll assume you're aware the NHS in Wales is run by Labour?

Given NHS Scotland (run by the SNP) is also struggling, I wonder when we'll have the real conversation that needs to be had - is the NHS still the best way to run a healthcare system?

Pretty sure the UK government sets both budgets.

 

[Tom]

I was trying to find the data to back this up but it's not easy - but as far as I'm aware people are requiring a lot more medical attention a lot earlier in life - in large part because of our diet and our sedentary nature.

Cancer starts becoming a really big thing in our 50's. Diet, not age, is responsible for 1/3rd of that. So that 1 in 2 thing shoots right back down. If it kills you that's cheap - it's the fact that we're treating way more people than we should be treating. Not just for cancers, but for metabolic diseases, diabetes, heart disease, stroke etc. etc. - all of which go hand-in-hand with how shit we eat.

The healthcare industry is screaming about this - so I think the argument holds water. We can't afford to ignore the societal effects of fucking awful diet on scuppering healthcare.

If we're not prepared to intervene in society, and the NHS is as financially untenable as you assert, then we need another method - and that method will, invevitably, be worse for the poor. As ever. Whereas making it harder to be a big fat cunt would deliver better outcomes for everyone - in terms of day-to-day life as well as improving our ability to treat people medically.

The fit and healthy tend to die faster (and later), cost less over their lifetime and aren't a such a drag on the NHS.

Maybe you should get some tax off if you can prove you hit target weight and health?

One thing that could help deal with this is a big way is to make NHS health experts statutory consultees in local transport planning - with veto powers. The government look like they're starting to realise this - Active Travel England have just announced a 30-odd million fund to train up council highways people so they have the skills to design highways that enable more walking and cycling. But having NHS consultees in highways planning, telling engineers "no you stupid fucks, we have too many fat people and 3 more lanes of traffic won't fix it, so we're going to veto your ideas" would be a big step forwards.

 

[Aoami]

Prisoner fighting extradition ‘bullied’ by cellmates singing Leaving on a Jet Plane

Nicholas Rossi, 35, says he is being taunted with John Denver song over his possible extradition to the US

www.theguardian.com

 

[Tom]

About 90% my footage in this edit. The crash may have caused me to do a little poo.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqcjKDV4Wko

 

[Aoami]

Glad to see our Harry is living that nice quiet private life he apparently craved so much

 

[Embattle]

View attachment 47516
Glad to see our Harry is living that nice quiet private life he apparently craved so much

I think one of the reporters said it best the other day that it seems Harry has never been able to handle being the younger brother, also he is quite happy to reveal others private conversations and incidents.....either way it is mightly boring.

I know it isn't politically correct but he is a ginger whinger.