Politics The General Election 2015

[Scouse]

It would be funny for all of a week at most.

This. Because whatever Raven thinks about how.unfairly UKIP gets treated it IS a party of and for racists and homophobes.

 

[Raven]

You keep saying that and they will keep gaining support

You are sleepwalking into disaster, its funny.

Nobody is actually challenging them or their views, they are still seen as a joke party (perhaps they are) but they are a joke party that gains more support by the day.

The fact that you have a good cry about anyone saying how undemocratic things are goes to show how much you support the status quo of zero change.

 

[Raven]

...or to put it another way, what are you going to do to help stop UKIP @Scouse ? Refuse to vote? Show abject apathy?

 

[Scouse]

You don't think pointing out that UKIP is chock full of racists is challenging UKIP's racist views?

Weird.

 

[Raven]

Nope, because it isn't strictly true, is it? yes they have a lot of racist supporters, yes they may have one or two racist members. No they do not have anything at all that could be viewed as racist in their manifesto.

I know its easy to just shout racist all the time when you have no real answers to their policies, Its the go-to response for the empty of realistic ideas, left...but its just not helping.

I bet Farage and co laugh their arses off every time some green starts bleating on an on about racism because they have nothing to counter UKIP policies. The bleaters certainly aren't going to stop UKIP peddling that line all the time.

 

[Scouse]

Nope, because it isn't strictly true, is it?

You don't put racist policies in a manifesto, but yep. I think strictly it is.

I also think that your desparation for a vote on leaving the EU blinds you to that fact.


Edit: Scratch that - racism IS in their manifesto - on their site:

Prioritise social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally

So. Your grandparents were immigrants? No social housing for you. Even though you were born here and your parents were born here.

CLEARLY racist.

 

[Raven]

Hmm...no. read a few posts please. I don't want out of Europe, I want Europe to change.

Curious you are so scared about the European debate though.

 

[Raven]

And in response to your edit. Yeah a pretty badly worded item but I don't think even that is racist, not really. It certainly doesn't mention race...or are you trying to suggest ethnic minorities are a brand new "thing"

I think its in the spirit of keeping communities together rather than housing people in any random sink estate, so people live near family and friends.

 

[Scouse]

And in response to your edit. Yeah a pretty badly worded item but I don't think even that is racist, not really.

It doesn't have to mention skin colour to be clearly racist. If they did then they would be locked up for it - remember, we don't have freedom of speech in this country.

I don't think the majority of UKIP supporters are racist - just disenfranchised and, frankly, dumb. They can't see the party for what it obviously is.

That policy clearly discriminates against people of colour, immigrants and minorities. It is a policy the BNP used to have. And it's not the only policy they have that works like that.


As for the European thing - I don't really care. It's a non-issue for me. Vote away if you want to. But to support the trashing of so much of what this country is supposed to stand for just to bring about a single-issue vote is the standpoint of a fool IMO.

 

[Raven]

I am not going to be voting UKIP...

My point is that a lot of people will be voting UKIP, and for good reason. The people have clearly shown that a vote on Europe is what they want as representatives of the people all parties should be offering the choice and thus creating the debate.

Burying our collective heads in the sand isn't going to force Europe to change, maybe the threat of it burning to the ground will. The UK isn't the only country utterly fed up with the bloated, unfair, pile of shit that Europe currently is.

I think people are just fed up of being told that "we know best" from the establishment.

 

[Scouse]

I wasn't saying you were going to vote UKIP m8 - or calling you a fool.

I'm saying this:

My point is that a lot of people will be voting UKIP, and for good reason.

isn't true.

The single-issue Europe thing isn't big enough to justify voting for this shower of fetid cunts.

Europe is NOT a good reason to vote for them - because you're also voting for everything else they stand for. UKIP voter's reasoning is the reasoning of an idiot.

 

[throdgrain]

I am not going to be voting UKIP...

My point is that a lot of people will be voting UKIP, and for good reason. The people have clearly shown that a vote on Europe is what they want as representatives of the people all parties should be offering the choice and thus creating the debate.

Burying our collective heads in the sand isn't going to force Europe to change, maybe the threat of it burning to the ground will. The UK isn't the only country utterly fed up with the bloated, unfair, pile of shit that Europe currently is.

I think people are just fed up of being told that "we know best" from the establishment.

I feel very much the same. I don't actually want to leave Europe, I want it to change, and if it doesn't, then we must leave. I may well vote UKIP. I doubt that many people that will vote for them want Nigel Farage to win, but they do want change, they want parties that represent what they think, not what they are supposed to think. As Raven said, I don't think the Labour party give a toss what you think , they just want you to do and think as you have been conditioned to do. I don't think that will work any more.

 

[Scouse]

As Raven said, I don't think the Labour party give a toss what you think

I don't think any of them really give a toss what you think. They're just saying and doing stuff to get / keep themselves in power.

That goes triple for UKIP, however. Their policies change on a daily basis and are obviously changing based on the way they're being received (scrap the NHS and make it toally private? Oh? Mistake - the plublic doesn't like that - ok - we'll put "protect the NHS" in our manifesto instead)

They're a lying, racist, shower of cunts who represent the worst of society who are exploiting people's genuinely-held beliefs about Europe - a single issue - whilst gaining the BNP vote.

UKIP are the bin that every retard we actually hate votes for. It's the wrong moral choice to vote for them. Vote Tory instead if you must - they'll give you a referendum without as much of the horrendous crap that UKIP will deliver. Either that or they'll paint themselves into the Lib-Dem corner of "not fulfilling promises" and find themselves unelectable for a long time...

 

[throdgrain]

I don't know where you get it all from Scouse.

 

[Scouse]

I don't know where you get it all from Scouse.

It's really easy to verify the veracity of what I said there m8.

 

[Urgat]

Serious question...

If "Enough" people actually spoilt there ballot paper in protest... What would happen?

Also... What would be "enough"

Facts please, not conjecture. (If it isn't something that is actually defined... clear then fair enough)

 

[Gwadien]

Serious question...

If "Enough" people actually spoilt there ballot paper in protest... What would happen?

Also... What would be "enough"

Facts please, not conjecture. (If it isn't something that is actually defined... clear then fair enough)

Nothing I believe, which should be changed.

 

[Scouse]

Facts please, not conjecture.

It's never happened - so giving anything other than conjecture is difficult

A large spoiled ballot would, however, demonstrate a clear dissatisfaction with all politicians. It gets recorded and reported. I suspect in practice a significant spoiled ballot vote would enable comentators to press leaders very strongly on the legitimacy of their mandate.

 

[Urgat]

It's never happened - so giving anything other than conjecture is difficult

A large spoiled ballot would, however, demonstrate a clear dissatisfaction with all politicians. It gets recorded and reported. I suspect in practice a significant spoiled ballot vote would enable comentators to press leaders very strongly on the legitimacy of their mandate.

Ahh. I thought perhaps there might be a proccess set in place to account for the eventuality.

Sad times.

 

[Raven]

A spoiled ballot is better than not voting. Not voting demonstrates apathy and allows governments to get in with only a tiny minority actually wanting them in. They are fine with that...

 

[Gumbo]

A lot of the recent posts are why Russell Brand is a monumental fucktard.

 

[Scouse]

Not voting demonstrates apathy

It can.

However, it's also the *only* way to register your disafection with the system itself. A spoiled ballot shows your problem with the parties, not the system.

Non-participation in a system you abhor is a perfectly valid choice.

 

[Raven]

I disagree. Not voting just means they don't need to bother with you. Better a non vote than a vote for the other guy.

I totally agree that the current system is a pile of bollocks but its all we have atm. Non participation is not going to change that.

Spoiling your ballot means that you still want to participate but vote for nobody. I genuinely think that if enough people spoiled their ballot they would have to start listening.

...maybe that's the optimist in me

 

[Bodhi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...d-for-you-but-irritates-the-right-people.html

This bloke has it spot on, would never vote Ukip, but do enjoy how much they annoy the group think Common Purpose morons who seem to make up most of the media and Twitter these days.

But then, I was told how to think, rather than what to think....

 

[Bodhi]

It can.

However, it's also the *only* way to register your disafection with the system itself. A spoiled ballot shows your problem with the parties, not the system.

Non-participation in a system you abhor is a perfectly valid choice.

It is. But in this situation, its also a really fucking retarded one. Not voting just shows you don't care, spoiling your ballot or protest votes show your contempt for the system in a way that will actually get picked up.

Not voting just makes the people who do get in think they can do what they want.

 

[Scouse]

Disagree.

Spoiled ballots show contempt for the politicians but also show your belief in the system.

Spoiled ballots are active participation in our 'democracy'.

 

[Bodhi]

And not participating in the system just makes them think you don't care. If you weren't being so obtuse you would see that.

 

[Scouse]

And not participating in the system just makes them think you don't care. If you weren't being so obtuse you would see that.

I don't know why you think I'm being obtuse - I'm just talking to you. in fact I agree with yours and ravens point about the effects of spoiled ballots.

As for people who don't vote - I imagine they think that politicians don't give two hoots either way. Or that the democracy we have cannot bring about the sort of change they would be interested in.

Who knows - they may be right. Either way - a person's continued participation in a system simply legitimises it. if you think something is illegitimate then you don't participate - regardless of what other people might think...

 

[ECA]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/incredibly-awkward-interview-with-natalie-bennett-105384#KBiswSjQ6LtMIy9D.97

Ain't no carcrash like a green party car crash.

 

[Scouse]

lol

they may manage to get rid of trident with plaid n the snp if there's a hung parliament...