Politics The General Election 2015

[Mabs]

last time i looked, there were more brits working overseas than migrants in this country, if you could magically "reset" it, we would be worse off
and "you" is people, not specifically YOU
leaving the EU is economic suicide, were not fully in with currency etc, yea it has probs, but disengaging from it would be massively damaging

 

[Bodhi]

really ? what do you want me to say ?

if they wrote their manifesto in crayon it wouldnt look any worse. "omg muslims did it " , "omg migrants did it", THERE IS ENOUGH RESEARCH AND PROOF THAT IT IS ALL SHIT.

either you choose to educate yourself, or you dont, its very simple. if you are an ignorant bigot then the truth doesnt factor into your decision making, so yea, if thats how you roll, vote UKIP, fill your boots.

Hmm. Good way to prove you don't argue against Ukip voters by shouting them down and calling them names...by shouting them down and calling them names.

Madskills.

 

[Scouse]

Hmm. Good way to prove you don't argue against Ukip voters by shouting them down and calling them names...by shouting them down and calling them names.

I posted an argument that showed that UKIP policies are racist.

People didn't argue against the facts - they just complained that I was calling UKIP racist - despite the fact that I'd presented it with evidence.

Who's shouting whom down?

 

[Bodhi]

I posted an argument that showed that UKIP policies are racist.

People didn't argue against the facts - they just complained that I was calling UKIP racist - despite the fact that I'd presented it with evidence.

Who's shouting whom down?

Er my post was in reply to Mabs...its not all about you you know.

 

[Gwadien]

Er my post was in reply to Mabs...its not all about you you know.

Scouse is life

Scouse is love.

 

[Scouse]

Er my post was in reply to Mabs...its not all about you you know.

I know, but it's fun to see that the UKIP apologists on this forum aren't practicing what they preach - and just because a reply is to mabs doesn't mean I can't enter into the discussion...

There is reasoned debate available - evidence has been put forward - but that evidence is conveniently ignored and never rebuffed with alternative evidence.

UKIP are a racist party for racists. That's not just name calling or shouting people down - them's the evidenced facts - if people want to deny them they need to prevent evidence to the contrary...

 

[Raven]

I posted an argument that showed that UKIP policies are racist.

People didn't argue against the facts - they just complained that I was calling UKIP racist - despite the fact that I'd presented it with evidence.

Who's shouting whom down?

No, you said they were racist so regardless of what they had to say your argument was just na na you're racist na na. Which is basically my point.

Oh and calling everyone UKIP apologists because they happen to think that UKIPs existence is healthy for British politics is kind of funny too.

As said, the debate needs to happen one way or another, two sides just yelling insults at each other isn't working.

I want a referendum on Europe, its come to the point that it is the only way to move forward. Europe in its current form just doesn't work. Ignoring it is not going to fix it.

 

[Raven]

last time i looked, there were more brits working overseas than migrants in this country, if you could magically "reset" it, we would be worse off
and "you" is people, not specifically YOU
leaving the EU is economic suicide, were not fully in with currency etc, yea it has probs, but disengaging from it would be massively damaging

Then you were looking in the wrong place, net migration accounts for over 50% of population growth in the UK and has done for 10 years, around 300k a year. You can check the ONS website if you wish.

...and before you stick your fingers in your ears and start shouting na na you're a racist na na. I think immigration is healthy and something that Britain is built on, both socially and culturally but at the moment its simply too many at once.

 

[Scouse]

No, you said they were racist so regardless of what they had to say your argument was just na na you're racist na na. Which is basically my point.

No - I showed they were racist with evidence.

It's encumbant on you to rebuff that evidence with evidence to the contrary. I can now say "they're racist" and if you don't come up with the evidence to prove otherwise then that argument stands.

Evidence has to work both ways - it can't be "scouse provides evidence but raven doesn't have to".

I'm supportive of your referendum on Europe - but unlike you I'm not prepared to ignore the fact that UKIP are racist to get that.

Your defence of UKIP despite evidence showing that they're racist makes you the very dictionary definition of an apologist


...so you're basically wrong on all counts there.

 

[Raven]

No - I showed they were racist with evidence.

It's encumbant on you to rebuff that evidence with evidence to the contrary. I can now say "they're racist" and if you don't come up with the evidence to prove otherwise then that argument stands.

Evidence has to work both ways - it can't be "scouse provides evidence but raven doesn't have to".

I'm supportive of your referendum on Europe - but unlike you I'm not prepared to ignore the fact that UKIP are racist to get that.

Your defence of UKIP despite evidence showing that they're racist makes you the very dictionary definition of an apologist


...so you're basically wrong on all counts there.

ofc you can call them racists, that's fine but to refuse to even listen to anything they have to say because some of their policies are borderline racist is just plain daft. It's certainly not challenging them or convincing its voters that maybe they might be wrong.

The over use of the race card is basically destroying any attempt at stopping racism.

 

[Scouse]

ofc you can call them racists, that's fine but to refuse to even listen to anything they have to say because some of their policies are borderline racist is just plain daft.

Disagree. I'm happy to debate alternative policies - but not at the expense of the viability of UKIP.

Being a racist political party isn't like being a racist human - if you're a racist political party then you rule yourself out of the narrative - if people don't treat them like that then they legitimise a party that is racist.

A racist human? OK - I can think he's a cunt, but there are other facets to his personality that may make him worthwhile.


Funnily enough - you, more than anyone on this board, like to have a pop at Job for being racist and discount everything else he says because of that. But you won't do that for UKIP - despite UKIP being far more dangerous than Job could ever be.

Your desire for EU change blinds you to this and turns you into a hypocrite.

 

[Mabs]

urgh i agree with scouse, afk killing myself

 

[Raven]

Disagree. I'm happy to debate alternative policies - but not at the expense of the viability of UKIP.

Being a racist political party isn't like being a racist human - if you're a racist political party then you rule yourself out of the narrative - if people don't treat them like that then they legitimise a party that is racist.

A racist human? OK - I can think he's a cunt, but there are other facets to his personality that may make him worthwhile.


Funnily enough - you, more than anyone on this board, like to have a pop at Job for being racist and discount everything else he says because of that. But you won't do that for UKIP - despite UKIP being far more dangerous than Job could ever be.

Your desire for EU change blinds you to this and turns you into a hypocrite.

No, I call Job a racist but I never tell him to shut up. He can say what he likes and I can call him a cunt for it. (I would hardly say I even do that all that often, check recent threads with his particular brand of idiocy.

...and as I said, UKIP are good for one thing, they have brought the discussion that desperately needed to happen to the front of politics. You cannot ignore an issue and hope it gets better, it won't.

You can either just sit there shouting racist over and over again like the Greens do without actually coming up with anything even resembling an opposing opinion or any actual facts or you can become part of the discussion.

 

[Mabs]

No, I call Job a racist but I never tell him to shut up. He can say what he likes and I can call him a cunt for it. (I would hardly say I even do that all that often, check recent threads with his particular brand of idiocy.

...and as I said, UKIP are good for one thing, they have brought the discussion that desperately needed to happen to the front of politics. You cannot ignore an issue and hope it gets better, it won't.

and similiarly you cant get a big rubber stamp , and use it to write IMMIGRATION on everything. for gods sake the man is a city-banker-tory, what do people see in him ? it boggles the mind.

 

[Raven]

I have no idea, I can't stand him or his party but he has every right to exist and so does his party.

 

[Scouse]

You cannot ignore an issue and hope it gets better, it won't.

Like UKIP's racism?

The issue of the EU is now front and centre. UKIP needs to die, preferably horribly. If you're not against them you for them.

i.e. - if you're not now anti-UKIP you're for a racist party.


The EU issue doesn't justify your stance.

 

[Raven]

That's because you're a fascist. Silence those that do not tow the line, right?!

 

[Scouse]

That's because you're a fascist. Silence those that do not tow the line, right?!

No - I argue against you with evidence, you've yet to even bother trying that - but it's easy to see why - because you've no evidence to support your argument.

So you're whining like a little bitch instead, whilst defending a racist party

 

[Raven]

The evidence is on the ONS website, as already stated.

As for the fact the left refuse to debate and just want to silence those who disagree with them, you only need to open your eyes to see that.

I am also not defending UKIP, I am defending their right to say what they say

You can carry on implying racism on me all you like, it just shows how utterly empty your argument is.

 

[Scouse]

The evidence is on the ONS website, as already stated.

As for the fact the left refuse to debate and just want to silence those who disagree with them, you only need to open your eyes to see that.

I am also not defending UKIP, I am defending their right to say what they say

You can carry on implying racism on me all you like, it just shows how utterly empty your argument is.

1) I'm defending UKIP's right to free speech - I stated explictly above (and many times) that all speech should be free and unfettered.
2) Point 1 clearly shows that I don't want to silence anyone (and secondarily shows you clearly struggle with your reading and remembering)
3) You *are* defending UKIP - in the very same sentence you deny it.
4) I'm not and have never said you're racist - I'm saying UKIP clearly are, and you're defending racists - which you are - just for a pishy vote on the EU.
5) My argument is backed up with the evidence presented by UKIP in their own racist manifesto - what backs up yours?

 

[Raven]

The office for national statistics...

Just because I say that some of what UKIP say is factually accurate does not mean I am defending them. It just means I am not saying na na you're racist na na.

or...would you knee jerk disagree with everything someone says if they occasionally say something inaccurate?

 

[Scouse]

The office for national statistics...

Link and specific argument please - rather than just saying ONS OMGZ0R!

Just because I say that some of what UKIP say is factually accurate does not mean I am defending them. It just means I am not saying na na you're racist na na.

or...would you knee jerk disagree with everything someone says if they occasionally say something inaccurate?

Please be referred to my argument above about political parties vs individual humans. It answers this entirely.

If you would like to move this conversation forward please rebuff what I've said therein...

 

[Ormorof]

they'll probably do ok in this years election but then once people realize they dont really offer anything the support will fade, here in finland the PS (True Finns) party gained almost 20% of the vote last time round but seeing as all they've done since is racists gaffes (one minister refused to condem one of his staff for suggesting all foreigners should wear armbands to identify their non-Finnishness, along with a plethora of other stupid things)

The problem is what happens to all the votes they got previously? Do all those people go back to mainstream parties? There just is no alternative right now and it is pissing people off

Im against UKIP because of their policies and generally what they stand for, but it is refreshing to see that it is possible to come in and shake up the political situation a little - especially in a system as stagnant as it had gotten in the UK

 

[Mabs]

on the subject of writing your manifesto with crayons
http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/11887329._/

 

[Scouse]

on the subject of writing your manifesto with crayons
http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/11887329._/

That's more to do with the fact that we have raving zionists in all our political parties.

How else does Israel get such an easy ride?

But I did like that he posted: "the almost absence of white faces in Ilford is worrying" on twitter

 

[Mabs]

That's more to do with the fact that we have raving zionists in all our political parties.

How else does Israel get such an easy ride?

But I did like that he posted: "the almost absence of white faces in Ilford is worrying" on twitter

thing is, as much as i dont care for their policies at all, if your PROFESSIONAL POLITICIANS dont have a shutoff valve between their biggoted minds and their mouths, they have no business running for parliament as it shows them for what they are, rank amateurs

 

[Scouse]

thing is, as much as i dont care for their policies at all, if your PROFESSIONAL POLITICIANS dont have a shutoff valve between their biggoted minds and their mouths, they have no business running for parliament as it shows them for what they are, rank amateurs

I kind of like that they're dumb enough to do it. What I don't like is that UKIP is polling so high because we've got too many people dumb enough to either agree with their views or ignore that they have them..

 

[Scouse]

 

[Raven]

Link and specific argument please - rather than just saying ONS OMGZ0R!


Please be referred to my argument above about political parties vs individual humans. It answers this entirely.

If you would like to move this conversation forward please rebuff what I've said therein...

Here are a few.

Net Migration increasing year on year

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_396645.pdf

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migra...-feb-2015.html#tab-1--Net-migration-to-the-UK

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-to-uk-higher-than-when-coalition-took-office

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30224637

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom#European_Union

quick figure, 1.5 million people between 2004 and 2009.

If you think those sort of figures are sustainable then you are nuts.

but na na racist na na

Then the amount of money that gets poured into Europe, and for what exactly? Its certainly not helping the poorer countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

 

[Bodhi]

I kind of like that they're dumb enough to do it. What I don't like is that UKIP is polling so high because I don't like democracy when it gives a different answer to the one I want

Fixed that for you m8.