Politics So...Europe then?

[dysfunction]

Oh so now freedom to moan about it has also left the UK?
If we just shut up and don't voice our opinions then we won't get the best deal out of this bad situation we find ourselves in.

I would like to moan so much so that we get a deal with EU that pretty much equates to being in the EU!

 

[dysfunction]

A completely spontaneous rally that has ready made flags and placards lol

It wasn't spontaneous. It was planned and then "rejected" because they didnt have proper permissions.
They went ahead with it anyway!

 

[DaGaffer]

I never elected Farage. Nor did I vote for him. Stop this fucking shit. I am one of the 17 million that voted to leave but for some reason you do not get it.

Ah, so Farage saying the NHS was going to get 350m a week didn't influence any leave voters then? Righto.

 

[Moriath]

It wasn't spontaneous. It was planned and then "rejected" because they didnt have proper permissions.
They went ahead with it anyway!

The woman at the beginning being interviewed said it was spontaneous. I was just taking what she said and saying it was a binch of crap

 

[Moriath]

Ah, so Farage saying the NHS was going to get 350m a week didn't influence any leave voters then? Righto.

The leave camp said that farage probably cost them 2% in the vote. Can take that with whatever pinch of salt you want.

 

[BloodOmen]

I don't agree with that @Deebs - you're entitled to your opinion as is every other person in this country. When a vote is literally swung by 2 promises that were literally u-turned hours later, it shouldn't even count as a vote, it was nothing but an absolute farce so people like Farage could 'Stick it to the man' and now the poor are going to be saddled with the consequences. People that even voted LEAVE have started to come forward and say they feel robbed.

I hope Parliament overturns it, I really really do.

 

[caLLous]

The leave camp said that farage probably cost them 2% in the vote. Can take that with whatever pinch of salt you want.

The Leave camp will say anything to distance themselves from Farage but the fact is, there wouldn't have been a referendum without him and he said lots of things before and throughout the campaign that stirred up the right kind of people to vote Leave.

 

[Deebs]

Ah, so Farage saying the NHS was going to get 350m a week didn't influence any leave voters then? Righto.

Not me. I have told you my vote was always about the right to govern one selves. Never have I mentioned anything else.

 

[DaGaffer]

Not me. I have told you my vote was always about the right to govern one selves. Never have I mentioned anything else.

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[Deebs]

I don't agree with that @Deebs - you're entitled to your opinion as is every other person in this country. When a vote is literally swung by 2 promises that were literally u-turned hours later, it shouldn't even count as a vote, it was nothing but an absolute farce so people like Farage could 'Stick it to the man' and now the poor are going to be saddled with the consequences. People that even voted LEAVE have started to come forward and say they feel robbed.

I hope Parliament overturns it, I really really do.

The point is my vote was not swayed by anything any politician said. It was about the rule of the land. I want the UK to rule the UK not the EU. Simple.

 

[Deebs]

That doesn't answer my question.

Yes it does. I don't give a fuck if it was 1 quid or 5billion quid. My vote was based on something entirely different.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes it does. I don't give a fuck if it was 1 quid or 5billion quid. My vote was based on something entirely different.

That still doesn't answer my question. I said, "Ah, so Farage saying the NHS was going to get 350m a week didn't influence any leave voters then? Righto." Not you, any of those 17m voters? No? Do you really believe that?

 

[Deebs]

That still doesn't answer my question. I said, "Ah, so Farage saying the NHS was going to get 350m a week didn't influence any leave voters then? Righto." Not you, any of those 17m voters? No? Do you really believe that?

Um I cannt answer for anyone outside of me. I voted based on my beliefs 2 years ago when I first heard an EU referendum was going to be held. My mind was made up then. I cannot answer for anyone else and why should I?

 

[Moriath]

That still doesn't answer my question. I said, "Ah, so Farage saying the NHS was going to get 350m a week didn't influence any leave voters then? Righto." Not you, any of those 17m voters? No? Do you really believe that?

So osbourne saying that people would be worse off by x and that he would have to call an emergency budget didnt sway and in voters? Osbourne has said there will be no budget until the usual scheduled ones.

Both sides lied. It was a dirty, threatening campaign. You can say it was one side that got votes with half truths and lies when both did so it kind of evens out.

 

[DaGaffer]

Um I cannt answer for anyone outside of me. I voted based on my beliefs 2 years ago when I first heard an EU referendum was going to be held. My mind was made up then. I cannot answer for anyone else and why should I?

Because no man is an island? You don't have to answer for anyone else, I'm just asking a very simple question; do you think the promise of millions for the NHS swayed any voters? Do you think promises of immigration control swayed any voters? Do you think claims we could get preferential access to the single market without free movement of labour swayed any voters? Do you think any of the 8-9 core Leave promises that have subsequently proven to be flat out lies swayed any voters? This isn't asking for you to speak on their behalf, its just your opinion.

 

[DaGaffer]

So osbourne saying that people would be worse off by x and that he would have to call an emergency budget didnt sway and in voters? Osbourne has said there will be no budget until the usual scheduled ones.

Both sides lied. It was a dirty, threatening campaign. You can say it was one side that got votes with half truths and lies when both did so it kind of evens out.

People are worse off. Instantly. And Osbourne's recession promises have plenty of time to come true.

 

[caLLous]

So osbourne saying that people would be worse off by x and that he would have to call an emergency budget didnt sway and in voters? Osbourne has said there will be no budget until the usual scheduled ones.

Both sides lied. It was a dirty, threatening campaign. You can say it was one side that got votes with half truths and lies when both did so it kind of evens out.

He's the Chancellor ffs. He's said today that there will have to be tax rises and spending cuts. If he felt like the economy would be damaged by a Leave win (which experts - uh oh there's that word again - pretty much universally said would be the case), he's well within his rights to say there would be an emergency budget and tax rises.

Leave lied across the board and have backtracked and watered down their "promises" across the board since winning.

 

[Deebs]

The people have voted. Move forward it. I have. it is not hard.

 

[georgie]

Out of curiosity (cos it doesn't seem to be going away) where did Farage pledge £350M for the NHS? Not that Farage presumably has the authority to pledge anything, but still.

 

[Scouse]

Democracy. The majority voted regardless of what was said. Deal with it and move forward. I am so fucking ashamed at the sore losers. Don't like it fuckoff to something like North Korea. The majority of the UK made their say. Time to unite and move forward.

we who agreed with this majority verdict must accept that it was not entirely overwhelming.

There were more than 16 million who wanted to remain. They are our neighbours, brothers and sisters who did what they passionately believe was right. In a democracy majorities may decide but everyone is of equal value

So, not far off 50-50 and a tiny majority should drag half the country down an unknown path?
http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/jsmill.htm
Tyranny of the majority in action. With what is effectively a hung vote then making very very sure that's what we want to do is a sensible course of action.
http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/jsmill.htm
I know you've got the "result" you want. But it's prudent to make *really* sure on the big decisions...

 

[Moriath]

Out of curiosity (cos it doesn't seem to be going away) where did Farage pledge £350M for the NHS? Not that Farage presumably has the authority to pledge anything, but still.

I think sometime back in jan 2015.

 

[Moriath]

So, not far off 50-50 and a tiny majority should drag half the country down an unknown path?
Tyranny of the majority in action. With what is effectively a hung vote then making very very sure that's what we want to do is a sensible course of action.
I know you've got the "result" you want. But it's prudent to make *really* sure on the big decisions...

If they had put that it waas required for x percentage majority in law. Then i would accept it. But the referendum was held on a simple majority. Nothing more. So blame the government that set up the legislature for the vote for not seeing that far ahead.

Not the people who participated in it.

 

[georgie]

X percentage participation doesn't work if one of the options is the status quo anyway. 30% or 25% or whatever% of the population could hold the rest hostage by simply not voting thereby making it not count.

 

[georgie]

I think sometime back in jan 2015.

Ah okay, I'm assuming it's something other than that "Farage Exposed" video thing, cos it aint in there.

 

[caLLous]

What pissed me off was Boris driving around in a bus with £350m on the side of it for who knows how long during the campaign and then the very fucking day after the poll (literally hours after the win was declared) Farage is on GMTV (iirc) saying that that was a "mistake". He wasn't very vocal about the "mistake" during the campaign.

 

[Raven]

Ah, so Farage saying the NHS was going to get 350m a week didn't influence any leave voters then? Righto.

Some, not all.

But then lots of bollocks also influenced remain voters.

 

[Scouse]

Not the people who participated in it.

There's no "blame" being apportioned in that post.

I'm just saying the will of the people is split. Near as damnit 50-50. And on such a massive decision that's not good enough to warrant shutting down counter argument.

If it was 70-30 then I doubt the discussion would be even being had. But it wasn't - and add to that the Leave campaign sprinting away from their moblising claims seconds after the results were in then it's perfectly reasonable to kick up a stink.

The fight isn't over. As much as the "victors" would like it to be.

 

[DaGaffer]

But then lots of bollocks also influenced remain voters.

Really? Like what? Project Fear? Turning out to be pretty much on the money as far as I can see.

 

[Raven]

In the extreme short term, yes. Markets are already showing signs of recovery, less than a week in.

In the long term it doesn't matter anyway because the EU project has failed and is about to come crashing down. And don't think for one second, those that have prospered from the EU haven't just made an absolute fortune from the crash.

 

[Moriath]

Ah okay, I'm assuming it's something other than that "Farage Exposed" video thing, cos it aint in there.

Yeah i not seen it just i heard some time over a year ago he said it. That exposed video he only talks about 10bn and says if he had his way he would do xxxx. But he doesnt have a say in spending it and he knows it.