Politics So...Europe then?

[Deebs]

I agree with the law making part, I really do but what's just happened is... we've lost Europe (in 2 years), we're going to lose Scotland and we're going to lose Northern Ireland, the NHS WILL be sold off under Boris Johnson, especially given the financial state the UK will be in, the UK won't be able to support it anymore... was it really worth it?

The UK has always been destined to break up. Scotland has been forced to join us. Not sure about Wales and NI. The empire died many years ago. So what if we are not centre stage anymore. We did our bit, other smaller countries get on just fine in the world.

 

[BloodOmen]

The UK has always been destined to break up. Scotland has been forced to join us. Not sure about Wales and NI. The empire died many years ago. So what if we are not centre stage anymore. We did our bit, other smaller countries get on just fine in the world.

We'll see, have no choice but to sit back and wait now. Not holding my breath though.

 

[Deebs]

We'll see, have no choice but to sit back and wait now. Not holding my breath though.

I wouldn't. It is going to happen and was destined to when Scotland had the first referendum. It is just something else that life throws at us. We will learn to cope.

The thing I don't understand is where all the hatred comes from from the losing side. There was always going to be a losing side. Just pick yourself up and move on. All I wanted to do is send a message which my vote did. I do not want to be part of a United States of Europe but would happily sign up to a trade agreement without all the laws and shit.

 

[Gwadien]

From my perspective @Deebs it's not an election, it's a massive change, it was a risky change too.

If Leave wanted to leave Europe so desperately and abandon it to what ever it may become, then why can't I do the same thing to the UK, why do I get judged for it?

In my perspective, this vote showed to me the true point of view of the masses of the UK, whilst I may have more sympathy for those that have true anti-European points of view, IE the stupid laws that are created and general euro-sceptic point of views, the two views which I saw come to light as yesterday approached was one of anti-immigration, and the other one, which is even more frustrating is to get back at Cameron & the Labour party and a lot of people (not all, maybe still a minority, but still) aren't even fully aware of what they voted for, and I know for a fact some of these people will be on Facebook within a couple of years time STILL moaning that they can't get their council flat, even though we're meant to be living in a golden era.

Then you get the older generations who I described before who are happy and content with life because they lived through free education and the glory days of the EU but when push comes to shove they want out, because they MIGHT get richer out of it, and if there's a financial crash, there's no real worries because they're in relative financial security - so yeah, lets fucking do it!

The Britain I believe we had, which is constantly reiterated in schools is one of acceptance, tolerance and a massive amount of grit & determination; not to run away from a problem as soon as one arises because it's an 'easier' option. But the Leave vote proved to me that I was completely wrong, that we're in actual fact inward looking, arrogant and think we're far more important than we actually are, and that in actual fact, the in depth analysis into people's thinking which @Job offers may in actual fact be a reality, and it's that which frustrates me.

TL;DR - It's not so much that we're leaving; it's more the realisation of the real core views and values (Which is above mere party politics) of British people which has extremely disappointed me.

 

[Moriath]

Tell me where the financial support from the NHS is going to come from then?

And Scotland leaving is a given, Nicola Sturgeon is already pushing for a new Scottish referendum, Northern Ireland are saying they will use this to break free and unite all of Ireland again + they want to be a part of the EU still, so actually, it's not scaremongering, its reality, a harsh one at that.

To start with scotland has to be invited into the eu. That isnt a given. If they are it could come with strings. Like having to give up their currency and taking the euro. Then theres the complication of border security that has to be put in place. And scotlands wealth generator the oil isnt all that healthy at the moment. Meaning they ould probably have to raise taxes to compensate which wouldnt be popular.

Thats if they get permission from westminster to hold a vote in the first place.

 

[Moriath]

From my perspective @Deebs it's not an election, it's a massive change, it was a risky change too.

If Leave wanted to leave Europe so desperately and abandon it to what ever it may become, then why can't I do the same thing to the UK, why do I get judged for it?

In my perspective, this vote showed to me the true point of view of the masses of the UK, whilst I may have more sympathy for those that have true anti-European points of view, IE the stupid laws that are created and general euro-sceptic point of views, the two views which I saw come to light as yesterday approached was one of anti-immigration, and the other one, which is even more frustrating is to get back at Cameron & the Labour party and a lot of people (not all, maybe still a minority, but still) aren't even fully aware of what they voted for, and I know for a fact some of these people will be on Facebook within a couple of years time STILL moaning that they can't get their council flat, even though we're meant to be living in a golden era.

Then you get the older generations who I described before who are happy and content with life because they lived through free education and the glory days of the EU but when push comes to shove they want out, because they MIGHT get richer out of it, and if there's a financial crash, there's no real worries because they're in relative financial security - so yeah, lets fucking do it!

The Britain I believe we had, which is constantly reiterated in schools is one of acceptance, tolerance and a massive amount of grit & determination; not to run away from a problem as soon as one arises because it's an 'easier' option. But the Leave vote proved to me that I was completely wrong, that we're in actual fact inward looking, arrogant and think we're far more important than we actually are, and that in actual fact, the in depth analysis into people's thinking which @Job offers may in actual fact be a reality, and it's that which frustrates me.

TL;DR - It's not so much that we're leaving; it's more the realisation of the real core views and values (Which is above mere party politics) of British people which has extremely disappointed me.

There are many differently educated people on both sides. You cant tar everyone with the same views or reasons as one person you disagree with

 

[Gwadien]

There are many differently educated people on both sides. You cant tar everyone with the same views or reasons as one person you disagree with

It's not about education, it's about the shift of general political views, it's happening right now.

I'm not talking about agreeing with Corbyn or agreeing with Cameron, I'm talking about the 'centre' of politics is shifting, and leaving the EU so convincingly is one which has given the nod to allow it to happen.

 

[Moriath]

Whats wrong with shifting political views? We live in a dynamic world. Things change. They are changing to something you dislike. Given time they will change back again.

 

[Gumbo]

Tell me where the financial support from the NHS is going to come from then?

Wait. The EU fund the NHS at present? Fuck me.

 

[Deebs]

I am off to get pissed and think about other stuff. You lot have fun. Got so much TV to catch up on.

Just one thing, please keep your personal feelings out of it. One side won. One side lost. We are both needed to progress forward. (Hmm could I trademark that?)

 

[BloodOmen]

Wait. The EU fund the NHS at present? Fuck me.

I never said it did? I was implying that there is going to be so much financial hardship now until the UK sorts itself out, the NHS is going to miss out on funding, so as I said, where is the funding going to come from? because it's not going to come from our government, they cannot afford it, they couldn't even afford it realistically being part of the EU, what makes you think they can afford it with the state the economy is going to be in for the next decade or so?

 

[BloodOmen]

I am off to get pissed and think about other stuff. You lot have fun. Got so much TV to catch up on.

Just one thing, please keep your personal feelings out of it. One side won. One side lost. We are both needed to progress forward. (Hmm could I trademark that?)

Way ahead of you, captain morgan is around my house tonight.

 

[Gumbo]

I'm sure a bit of the £120odd million a week (yes not £350mil) might find it's way that way. And who knows if the economy is going to be fucked for a decade, it might all be cool. Chill Winston!

 

[Moriath]

I never said it did? I was implying that there is going to be so much financial hardship now until the UK sorts itself out, the NHS is going to miss out on funding, so as I said, where is the funding going to come from? because it's not going to come from our government, they cannot afford it, they couldn't even afford it realistically being part of the EU, what makes you think they can afford it with the state the economy is going to be in for the next decade or so?

DOOOM. DOOOOOOOOM. DOOOOOOOOOOOM. Or you know it might be ok.

 

[BloodOmen]

I'm sure a bit of the £120odd million a week (yes not £350mil) might find it's way that way. And who knows if the economy is going to be fucked for a decade, it might all be cool. Chill Winston!

Come on be real, £120,000,000 wouldn't even touch the sides of the NHS

 

[Deebs]

DOOOM. DOOOOOOOOM. DOOOOOOOOOOOM. Or you know it might be ok.

Let me open my arsehole for those who are afraid. Feel free to wander in and have a feel. It's ok, promise.

 

[georgie]

Way ahead of you, captain morgan is around my house tonight.

??

Spoiler

That's Wes Morgan, Captain of Leicester City FC btw.

 

[old.user4556]

Moot point because no one is having a second one.

au contraire!

*dances*

 

[ECA]

Sturgeons just fishing.
There's no plaice for another vote, it'd just flounder.

 

[old.user4556]

That's not what Alex Salmon said.

 

[Sturty]

A vote for Scottish independence is as much of a shot in the dark as voting to leave the EU. In many ways it's alot more risky .

I doubt Europe will offer the amount of subsidy to Scotland that it currently enjoys.

Perhaps because I no longer live north of the border my views and sentiment have changed but I feel a vote to leave the union is very short sighted.

People will chose to leave because if perceived possible (noone really knows yet) financial hardship to land themselves in what I am only see being a much worse financial situation.

The SNP aren't doing what's best for the people of Scotland, they're doing what it takes to ensure their place in the history books.

Sure, Scotland will have the ability to rule itself, until of course, it joins the EU and has to give that 'freedom' up to be accepted.

I think the UK is the first rat off the sinking ship and the possible collapse of the EU is no reason for the British people thst wanted to leave to have voted to remain.

 

[Sturty]

On a different note, I know people that have voted to remain because they fear MORE immigration.

 

[Calaen]

Well I welcome the change.

 

[Job]

I think Boris Johnson, when he came out of his house, had that 'wtf have I done!' Look.

 

[caLLous]

I heard someone calling him a cunt live on Sky News.

 

[Job]

Seriously, people are acting like the country is fucked just because the pound has dropped...ALL the stock markets have crashed..cos you know..investors.
The European market is still there, we haven't sailed off into the atlantic, and everyone seems to be ignoring the fucking financial shistorm that is the EU, Germany props the whole thing up, they are printing money faster than the central bank can add 0's to the account balance.
Staying in is just as much of a financial risk as leaving, the whole world is on the brink of a recession anyway.
It would seem people believe the EU held everything together for us and leaving will have us wandering around looking for mummy.
It actually hardly figured with any meaning in our lives...trade agreements and open travel...except we still had passport control anyway.

 

[dysfunction]

I wouldn't. It is going to happen and was destined to when Scotland had the first referendum. It is just something else that life throws at us. We will learn to cope.

The thing I don't understand is where all the hatred comes from from the losing side. There was always going to be a losing side. Just pick yourself up and move on. All I wanted to do is send a message which my vote did. I do not want to be part of a United States of Europe but would happily sign up to a trade agreement without all the laws and shit.

That's fine but equally you have dragged half the population into something they do not want.
I'd be happy to sign up to something that equates to being within the EU which I hope is what happens.

I really can't see the UK making massive deviations away from the EU status quo anyway.
If we do any kind of business with the EU we will have to follow their rules.
They are our biggest customer but we are a long way away from being a major supplier.

So this whole Brexit shite has been a complete waste of time and money.

If I didn't have a family and responsibilities I would move to Ireland in a heartbeat.

We should have stayed in Europe and if it "got out of hand" then leave.

Leaving now was the worst decision this country has made and was driven by UKIP and the like.

If I knew the UK would leave the EU before I moved here I would have gone to Ireland.

 

[Calaen]

we wouldn't have left though Dys, it'd be the same shit over and over again. I didn't make my vote to leave because of UKIP I detest them.

 

[dysfunction]

If Europe got to be the "disaster all consuming evil empire" then I would have voted to leave but it's not.

It has many faults but none so bad as for us to leave now.

 

[BloodOmen]

How the fuck can you take him seriously?