Politics So...Europe then?

[Scouse]

Austrian far right candidate lost by 0.6%, a divided country, not a good sign.

Shhh. The brexit stuff has nothing to do with right-wing views on the rise across Europe. Just ask Raven. It's irrelevant.

 

[Embattle]

I find this £350m figure the out campaign is using is pissing me off each time I see it.

 

[Raven]

Shhh. The brexit stuff has nothing to do with right-wing views on the rise across Europe. Just ask Raven. It's irrelevant.

You're a fucking simpleton.

A huge amount of left wingers want out of Europe. If Corbyn wasn't labour leader, he would be campaigning for leave.

Your black and white view of everything blinds you to both argument and facts.

Europe's inability to deal with issues are responsible for both the rise of the far right (and far left actually... You know, Nazi types, about as far left as you can get) and the wish to burn it. They are not the same thing though.

 

[Scouse]

You're a fucking simpleton.

Queue faux outrage about "insults" etc. yadda. wtfrofl.

Oh wait. You're right. Brexit is nothing to do with reactionary right-wing types, nationalism or low-rent xenophobia. There's no relation, and in fact most of these people definitely want to stay in Europe. Definitely.

Your cogent argument against the obvious evidence has proven this. Well done, sir. Well done!


Edit: Ah, your edit habits.

Nazi's are far right. I know you see the term "socialism" in their party name, but no, they're far right. But then I'm a simpleton...

 

[Job]

The guy with the swastiks outside his house made a good point how everyone is concentrating on small gains or losses to the economy, and doing it to keep peoples minds off what a fundamental vote this is on our relationship with a federal EU and our basic freedoms, all the exiters need is the Braveheart speech the night before the vote.
'Yes, you'll live, but when you are dying in your bed, you would give every day from now till then for freedom!!!!!'
Has that roused you?

 

[Raven]

And you are just an other mouth with no actual argument of your own, angry shouty man who doesn't understand the issues.

 

[Scouse]

And you are just an other mouth with no actual argument of your own, angry shouty man who doesn't understand the issues.

Actually, whilst I find Job's views ridiculous in the extreme and his logic utterly bereft of reason I think he knows what he is and at least attempts to engage.

 

[Raven]

From the guy that refuses to answer posts, makes stuff up and gets himself in a complete tangle when challenged.

I put this question to you, directly, in the simplest form possible.

Are you saying the Brexit campaign has caused the rise of the far right in Europe?

 

[Raven]

Nazi's are far right. I know you see the term "socialism" in their party name, but no, they're far right. But then I'm a simpleton...

Actually, they began and got into power as an ultra left wing party, after which it didn't really matter what they were.

 

[Scouse]

Are you saying the Brexit campaign has caused the rise of the far right in Europe?

That's utterly retarded. How can you even draw that comparison from what's been said. Is it not obvious that that's ridiculous to all?

No. Brexit is related to the far right all over Europe. Like the rise of UKIP. The rise of arguments against the Human Rights legislation. The general predictable race to the intelectual bottom in political argument.

Brexit is a result of far-right influence.

But I guess it should have been obvious to me that you'd take the obvious and see it in exactly opposite terms. I mean, you think the Nazi's are a far-left party.

/mind: Boggles...

 

[Raven]

But they were a left wing party, that is factually correct, they gained power on a left wing mandate. Completely and utterly left. After the night of the long knives...not so much.

The leave campaign and the rise of the far right have come from a growing discontent with a corrupt, unaccountable organisation that for all intents and purposes does exactly what it is told by multinationals, the EU-US trade deal just the latest in a long line of obvious shenanigans.

They are not the same thing though, plenty of left wing organisations want out too. Your assertion that it is only right wing idiots that want out is just plain wrong.

Its your usual cop out argument, omg racists, omg little Englanders etc etc, you believe if you shout it load enough and long enough people might believe it. Its getting old and doesn't actually change anything.

 

[Scouse]

Your assertion that it is only..

You are the one who keeps seeing arguments made with very different language in absolutes.

The only thing I'll bother responding to is this:

The leave campaign and the rise of the far right have come from a growing discontent with a corrupt, unaccountable organisation

No, the rise in the far right has predictably come from economic devestation (as it always does) and the leave campaign has risen after and along with that.

The problems with europe have long been known but the leave campaign , stoked by it's *majority* (see what I did there, very clearly for you) far-right backers, have used this to help achieve their aims. (As have other far-right political parties, gaining ground all over europe).

And the UK public are suckers for it. Especially the ones who've suffered most economically (the Ukippers and their idiot ilk) - the desire to brexit and low rents go hand in hand - *though not exclusively* (see what I did there again?).

And if they get their wish they'll have less employment rights, less legal protection, yadda yadda yadda. Sure, they'll have a "more directly electable" government - one that, like Europe, will still be told what to do by multinationals and elites, but one with the power to properly fuck over the working class.

Fucking woo-hoo! Joy.

I hate 'em both. But the lesser of two evils, which is all we're being given a vote over, is to remain. It sucks, yes, but less than the alternative. And I'm not stupid enough to cut my own nose off to spite my face...

 

[ECA]

The communists in russia who killed more than hitler were the authoritarian left.
Hitlers party was the national SOCIALISTS.

Seems more like the left wing that are the violent ones

 

[Scouse]

Get hung up on a word, eh? Jeeez.

No wonder politicians don't bother with nuance.

 

[throdgrain]

STILL?!?!? Fucking STILL??

 

[Scouse]

STILL?!?!? Fucking STILL??

Vote's not for ages budlar

 

[Access Denied]

For me what it all boils down to is one question.

Do I trust our Government (Doesn't matter what party is in power) to act in the best interests of the people?

I don't think so. The Tories have spent their time doing their level best to fuck anyone who isn't rich with a rusty chainsaw and since I'm of the opinion that all politicians are the same, I'm voting to stay in because I like our Government having some form of oversight.

 

[Job]

The rise of the right is caused by immigration..full stop.

 

[Scouse]

The rise of the right is caused by immigration..full stop.

No. It's mainly the fallout of the the financial crash in 2008.

Times get hard, idiots blame immigrants.

 

[Job]

No one is that simple, it's pure xenophobia and the sheer feeling of overcrowding in this country, you can't have green spaces all over the place being built on for more housing and not have a backlash against immigration, peoples welcome to those 'in need' has long eroded and when they finally end up surrounding the gated communities of the liberal elite, then the fun begins.

 

[Raven]

I actually have a problem with all population growth. People who have no intention of ever working giving birth to 10 kids who are indoctrinated to do the same, generations of idle wasters.

 

[Scouse]

Happened in 1920's / 30's Europe.

 

[Job]

Yes...and there was a big movement to sterilise the poor supported all the way to the top.
The poor take the brunt of immigration, while the liberal middle classes just cannot understand their racism, because Mr Obulunka, the Oxford educated heart surgeon they invited to their dinner party is such a lovely chap.

 

[DaGaffer]

No one is that simple, it's pure xenophobia and the sheer feeling of overcrowding in this country, you can't have green spaces all over the place being built on for more housing and not have a backlash against immigration, peoples welcome to those 'in need' has long eroded and when they finally end up surrounding the gated communities of the liberal elite, then the fun begins.

What a load of shite. The working classes never used those "green spaces" anyway. Immigration is a symptom, not the cause, just like always, blaming the "other" is a simpleton's solution that avoids the real issue, which is inequality. The rise of the right, the rise of the left, is always about wealth (or more importantly, lack of it), not immigration.

I actually have a problem with all population growth. People who have no intention of ever working giving birth to 10 kids who are indoctrinated to do the same, generations of idle wasters.

Once again, real population growth is a function of poverty, give people wealth and the birth rate drops, its been proven time and time again. Of course you're not really talking about all the people in the third world having 10 kids, you're talking about home grown wasters, but really, they're not worth worrying about, they're noise in the system.

 

[throdgrain]

What a load of shite. The working classes never used those "green spaces" anyway. Immigration is a symptom, not the cause, just like always, blaming the "other" is a simpleton's solution that avoids the real issue, which is inequality. The rise of the right, the rise of the left, is always about wealth (or more importantly, lack of it), not immigration.



Once again, real population growth is a function of poverty, give people wealth and the birth rate drops, its been proven time and time again. Of course you're not really talking about all the people in the third world having 10 kids, you're talking about home grown wasters, but really, they're not worth worrying about, they're noise in the system.

It's not a load of shite. It's absolutely 100% correct.

 

[Job]

1984 or sensible free speech limits?

Facebook and Twitter promise to crack down on internet hate speech

 

[Scouse]

1984 or sensible free speech limits?

By definition speech isn't free if you have limits.

 

[fettoken]

By definition speech isn't free if you have limits.

Free speech-isch doesn't have the same ring to it. Perhaps in a couple of hundred years future generations will all be laughing at 'The huge hate-ban of 2020' or something along those lines.

 

[Ormorof]

I agree with scouse but also have no problem with what Facebook is doing, its not a public space its a privately run social network, you have the right to free speech but no right to expect anyone to listen

 

[Raven]

Facebook can allow what they want, its a privately owned company, you are the commodity. If they don't want "hate speech" then they do not have to put up with it.

It should not be up to government though.