Politics So...Europe then?

[DaGaffer]

Trouble is, nobody has voted on it.

Well, except us that is

Anyway, a federal Europe is inevitable, and wouldn't be a bad thing if it was done properly and fairly...which it isn't.

Yes, they did. Every country voted on Maastricht. It was quite the thing at the time.

 

[Raven]

What?

Are you actually attempting to suggest that because governments (not people) decided to sign the Maastricht treaty, in 1992, 25 years ago, that is the same thing as people voting to become part of a federal Europe/have a united military (pretty much the same thing) in 2020ish?

You aren't...are you? You can't be...

 

[DaGaffer]

What?

Are you actually attempting to suggest that because governments (not people) decided to sign the Maastricht treaty, in 1992, 25 years ago, that is the same thing as people voting to become part of a federal Europe/have a united military (pretty much the same thing) in 2020ish?

You aren't...are you? You can't be...

Yes. There were referendums on Maastricht all over Europe. The UK didn't have one, because democracy is so super-important to the British of course. But yes, there was a load of stuff inside the Treaty and one section was to allow for a European military. End of the Cold War, made perfect sense. It wasn't the most important aspect of the Treaty; which was of course the ERM and the road to the Euro, but that too was a long-term aim. The original projections were that it would take at least a decade to achieve monetary union, and they did it in seven years. God forbid that people be asked to vote on long-term plans.

Unlike the UK, which continued in wilful denial about the EU ("its just about trade" they wail. No, its not and it never was), most other Europeans are well aware of the actual point of the EU. Which would probably explain why there have been about 25,000 EU soldiers acting as a combined EU military battlegroup for more than a decade, working under an EU, not NATO or local, command structure.

 

[Job]

Combined military battlegroup....doing jack shit...really JACK SHIT.
I'm glad they're admitting to their continuing plans, not because I'm arsed about a federal Europe, it's just the remoaners can now go fuck off about hysterical brexiters and their federal EU/Army fantasies.

It won't work of course, there is no chance whatsoever of it working, not a fucking hope, the creatures in my back garden have got more chance of getting together and building a working model of a nuclear power station.
They will fall out, make up fall out, have a meeting, then a crisis, then a small war, then another country will go bust, a scandal, try to take in Morrocco and Algeria, riots, the facists will take half the bloc, they'll send their Dads army on some ridiculous agenda ridden scuffle and they'll come back with every country blaming the other.
Popcorn time, we're better off just watching from the sidelines with our head down.

 

[DaGaffer]

Combined military battlegroup....doing jack shit...really JACK SHIT.

Which is relevant...how, exactly?

 

[BloodOmen]

James O’Brien Keeps His Cool During Encounter With Irate Brexiteer - LBC

Most brexiters in a nutshell.

 

[Job]

I mean really, he asks people to phone in and someone gets a bit excited..its hardly Kissinger in Stalingrad.

 

[DaGaffer]

I mean really, he asks people to phone in and someone gets a bit excited..its hardly Kissinger in Stalingrad.

"Kissinger in Stalingrad"? What?

 

[Gwadien]

Do you reckon it would be a quicker Brexit if we had a referendum on each question and then each country in the EU had a referendum to respond to the British responses to said questions?

Just do it in online rather informally.

In fact, why don't we just invite everyone to Freddyshouse and we could sort it out here quicker.

 

[Job]

In much more important news...the fourth renaissance begins.

Deutsche Bank's CEO hints half its workers could be replaced by machines

 

[Job]

France's opposition set to lurch toward far right by electing new leader

 

[Raven]

What, actual far right cunts in European politics?

 

[Job]

Baby steps, but they'll get there eventually..the EU Fatherland.

 

[Raven]

UK jobless, lowest since 1975.

Thanks to Brexit, reference remoaner logic.

 

[Scouse]

UK jobless, lowest since 1975.

Thanks to Brexit, reference remoaner logic.

Funnily enough tho - all this seems to be true too:

• Average weekly pay reached £478 which is the lowest since February 2006.
• The number of people claiming unemployment benefits rose by 5,900 to 817,500 in November
• The number of people in employment also dropped, down by 56,000 to 32 million

The number of people in employment dropped, yet the jobless rate is lowest ever eh? That's the problem quoting the headline figures @Raven - it doesn't paint the whole picture. That jobless rate being low includes people working 15 hours a week in zero-hours contracts who'd desparately love a proper job but can't get one.

Looks good tho eh? Especially when you consider our average wage has only just returned to what it was over a decade ago.

Things are clearly rosey.

 

[Gwadien]

Funnily enough tho - all this seems to be true too:

• Average weekly pay reached £478 which is the lowest since February 2006.
• The number of people claiming unemployment benefits rose by 5,900 to 817,500 in November
• The number of people in employment also dropped, down by 56,000 to 32 million

The number of people in employment dropped, yet the jobless rate is lowest ever eh? That's the problem quoting the headline figures @Raven - it doesn't paint the whole picture. That jobless rate being low includes people working 15 hours a week in zero-hours contracts who'd desparately love a proper job but can't get one.

Looks good tho eh? Especially when you consider our average wage has only just returned to what it was over a decade ago.

Things are clearly rosey.

This, absolutely.

I've been doing some shit dead-end jobs (which stress the fact they're not dead-end) before I start my teaching job in Jan and it's hilarious how much employers take the piss when it's an employers market.

Stuff like 'split shifts' with half an hour between breaks - so the employer can avoid paying for a 15 minute break.

Stuff like giving people shifts which vary between 5 hours and 30 hours a week.

Absolutely agree with Scouse - rose tinted glasses, has nothing to do with Brexit - has more to do with the Tories encouraging these forms of employment.

Oh, and Agency employment for factories and stuff, that's the best form.

 

[Bodhi]

This, absolutely.

I've been doing some shit dead-end jobs (which stress the fact they're not dead-end) before I start my teaching job in Jan and it's hilarious how much employers take the piss when it's an employers market.

Stuff like 'split shifts' with half an hour between breaks - so the employer can avoid paying for a 15 minute break.

Stuff like giving people shifts which vary between 5 hours and 30 hours a week.

Absolutely agree with Scouse - rose tinted glasses, has nothing to do with Brexit - has more to do with the Tories encouraging these forms of employment.

Oh, and Agency employment for factories and stuff, that's the best form.

I did some dead end jobs in the mid 00's after I finished uni - pretty much everything you say went on then as well. Clearly still TEH TOARIES!"!!"!" fault, even though they weren't in power then. But y'know, Thatcher. And Stuff.

 

[Scouse]

I did some dead end jobs in the mid 00'

Yeahhh. You had a shit time after Uni @Bodhi. Yeah! It makes all the points I made above NOT REAL! YEAH!

FAKE NEWS BABY YEAH!!!!!

Good that wages are still the same as they were in the mid-noughties too eh?

 

[Raven]

I did loads of shit jobs when I left school, before finding a proper job, actually for a few years as I was pretty much a bum moaning about how the world owed me something between 16 and 20ish. Crappy agency work in factories and warehouses were about then, they are about now and in a few years they will be done by robots. There will be zero work for people...Uneducated or lazy, or people wanting flexible working won't find a job, there wont be jobs for them.

Who will we moan at then!?!?!

Part time warehouse work is how you get your shiny things so cheap, especially at this time of the year, do you think a business in the business of making money (OMG TEH EVILS!) is going to take on an army of perms to cover flexible seasonal work?! get out of town.

Also, its already been discussed how zero hour contracts suit loads of people in society today, countless times, every time it is pointed out that people want them and in cases when given the choice, actually vote to keep them. It is a completely stupid argument.

You said yourself @Gwadien you are working a shit job until you start a proper job in Jan, you have chosen to take on a temporary contract, because it suits you. OMGERD why not take on a permanent role?! It works both ways.

 

[Job]

All self employed people are on zero hours and they are the backbone of the economy.
I dont have set hours and its quite simply fucking fantastic.

 

[Scouse]

I did loads of shit jobs when I left school

Good that you ignored all the relevant points and that @Bodhi came to your rescue to switch the focus of the argument. Let me bring it back:

• Average weekly pay reached £478 which is the lowest since February 2006.
• The number of people claiming unemployment benefits rose by 5,900 to 817,500 in November
• The number of people in employment also dropped, down by 56,000 to 32 million

 

[Raven]

Exactly, in the same way as UBER drivers, most delivery drivers and quite a lot of people in the catering industry are, work when they want for as long as they want, if they want.

Its not my cup of tea but for a lot of people its what they want.

Except now they are getting more rights (rightfully so) in relation to holiday/sick pay etc. Whereas a traditionally self-employed bod doesn't.

 

[Scouse]

Still ignoring the facts there @Raven...

...but hey ho. To be expected. You have a world view and it's unshakeable.

 

[Job]

Well an economist on R4 has just said everyone is confused by wages staying low while employment is so high..its called the phillips scale and atm its on its head.

 

[Raven]

Applying to stay in UK 'will take minutes'

Reciprocal too, it seems...well assuming the bullshit by committee lot agree.

 

[Bodhi]

Yeahhh. You had a shit time after Uni @Bodhi. Yeah! It makes all the points I made above NOT REAL! YEAH!

FAKE NEWS BABY YEAH!!!!!

Good that wages are still the same as they were in the mid-noughties too eh?

I wasn't even referencing your post you melt. I was making the point that the "flexible" labour laws Gwad was complaining about have been in place for quite some time, and very little to do with the current government.

So back in your box.

YEAH!

 

[Scouse]

I wasn't even referencing your post

For good reason @Bodhi. For good reason.

Same as why you've ignored the wages being the same today as when you left university.

 

[Bodhi]

For good reason @Bodhi. For good reason.

Same as why you've ignored the wages being the same today as when you left university.

Mine aren't though Mostly because I've worked over a few years to get myself into a better position, which is always an option if people want more money.

But then I do agree that wage stagnation is an issue, but it's a worldwide issue, and probably not one we are going to fix on a computer games forum...

 

[Raven]

FAKE NEWS

Facebook: Just three Russian Brexit ads

 

[Wij]

FAKE NEWS

Facebook: Just three Russian Brexit ads

Um - that's Facebook Ads only. From Russian accounts only.

Facebook tried that approach in the senate hearing on the US election and got the hairdryer treatment because they deliberately left out posts and likes by bot or puppet accounts which aren't ads and are pretending not to be Russian. Tip of the iceberg.

/edit: Also them Kremlin-bots were aching for Roy Moore to win today to make western politics look even shitter:
Russian propagandists are pushing for Roy Moore to win