Politics So...Europe then?

[Raven]

Uh-oh, Doom and so on.

UK unemployment falls to 11-year low - BBC News

Crikey, France sitting pretty with 10% unemployment, no wonder the right are getting out of control.

EU: unemployment rate 2016 by country | Statista

 

[Gwadien]

Uh-oh, Doom and so on.

UK unemployment falls to 11-year low - BBC News

Crikey, France sitting pretty with 10% unemployment, no wonder the right are getting out of control.

EU: unemployment rate 2016 by country | Statista

Nothing has changed though.

So like let's say for argument's sake we don't leave the EU until 2019, there's a GE and then Labour are voted in. Does that mean if the country crashes everything will be blamed on Labour because brexit happened 4 years ago?

I hate democracy. I'm slowly becoming more and more in favour of autocratic rule.

 

[Raven]

Everything has changed. We are leaving, businesses are preparing for it now - if they thought it was as bad as remoaners thought then they would not be recruiting, natural redundancy is by far the best choice, so they would not be replacing leavers.

Autocracy is the choice of the weak and those that have lost the argument. While I know the left find a different opinion abhorrent and they want nothing more to shut down discussion and democracy, it is not the answer and has never worked...funnily enough, the same as socialism.

 

[Exioce]

I hate democracy. I'm slowly becoming more and more in favour of autocratic rule.

Here's a timely article to disavow you of that notion.
China’s Great Leap Backward
China's Great Leap Backward

 

[Bodhi]

Nothing has changed though.

So like let's say for argument's sake we don't leave the EU until 2019, there's a GE and then Labour are voted in. Does that mean if the country crashes everything will be blamed on Labour because brexit happened 4 years ago?

I hate democracy. I'm slowly becoming more and more in favour of autocratic rule.

Hmm left-wing autocracy. Has that ever been tried? 20 million + dead Russians would suggest that it has....

 

[Gwadien]

Hmm left-wing autocracy. Has that ever been tried? 20 million + dead Russians would suggest that it has....

The democracy point was a joke.

My point being you, it's a the whole immediate rewards thing - New Labour did well early days due to the foundation which the Tories had created; my point being will the same thing be recognised or will it always be in hindsight when the public are actually aware of what these parties are doing. Not just the educated few?

 

[Raven]

You might want to actually meet some of "the public" and not just from your usual circles. Plenty of working class people (working, people) know exactly how governments and their choices effect them...because they tend to bear the brunt of it, or reap the benefits.
The idiocy of disregarding what they have to say is what has got us into this mess and it is not just here it all over the west. Ignore them or shut them down and we are completely fucked. It is not about an ideological utopia where everyone gets along, its about paying the mortgage and putting food on the table, which is getting harder and harder for lots of people in the "real world".

Governments all over the world are ignoring huge swathes of voters, tradition media and people who think very highly of themselves because they think that reading and regurgitating the Guardian makes them "educated" sneer at them and now we are all getting gang raped for it. If you cannot offer an opposing opinion without insulting someone or dismissing them as "idiots" or "uneducated" then your argument is literally worthless. Edit, not you but people.

If you want positive change, then listen, take on board, possibly empathise and see why someone feels a particular way, only then try and convince them otherwise, it's as simple as that.

 

[Job]

Of course the western world is quite rightly shit scared of war..and persecuting minorities is the first step, but blanket ban of every opinion, giving them status light years beyond their numbers and influence only breeds the contempt they are trying to eliminate.
It's hardly rocket science and I can only conclude the liberals have spent so long in their imagined high ground, infiltrated every aspect of employment law, introduced thought police and actually believed it was all in the bag.
Talk about Emporers new clothes

 

[Scouse]

Uh-oh, Doom and so on.

UK unemployment falls to 11-year low - BBC News

Apart from the fact that we've not brexited yet - look at the type of jobs that are being offered.

You get 5 or 6 hours of zero-hour contract lecturing per week and you don't count as unemployed. People with PhD's earning as little as 3 or 4 grand a year.

I stopped giving a fuck about unemployment figures when the government (think it was labour when I first noticed) quite overtly keeped changing the way the figure was come to...


Edit: Oh.

its about paying the mortgage and putting food on the table, which is getting harder and harder for lots of people in the "real world"..

Which is it? Getting harder or getting better?

 

[Raven]

Harder, fuck all to do with Europe, its been getting worse for a decade (at least)

You do know two things do not necessarily have to be linked...right? And that house prices are not tied to wages and employment...right? ofc you do.

Edit, rough figures, because I can't be arsed with you and you are incapable of understanding the facts.

United Kingdom Average Weekly Wages | 2000-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar

Average UK house price rose £17,000 in year to June, ONS figures show

 

[Job]

My mother worked for the Tax..she said in the 80s they just kept renaming the unemployed to get them off the figures.
All kinds of bizarre pseudo working titles were given to people who were obviously still on the dole.

 

[Raven]

Direct question to @Scouse

Lets do a little bit of roleplay.

You are 25 years old living in Leicester and earning average wage for the city (16-24k) Take home being roughly 13-19k

You pay the average rent of 5k pa

You want to buy a house, the average price being 176k

You need a 10% deposit (and that is being optimistic, you would be very lucky with 10%) so 17k

How would you save up 17k for a deposit on a house?

I would be interested to see how you somehow manage to link that to Brexit too, in any way. I am guessing you just deflect and blame it on "omg racist idiots omg"

 

[Raven]

Councils spent £3.5bn on temporary housing in last five years - BBC News

Makes no sense at all, whichever way you look at it. 3.6 billion on putting people in bedsits?! That could pay for a fuckton of affordable housing. Might upset the buy-to-let vultures a tad though...

 

[Job]

Direct question to @Scouse

Lets do a little bit of roleplay.

You are 25 years old living in Leicester and earning average wage for the city (16-24k) Take home being roughly 13-19k

You pay the average rent of 5k pa

You want to buy a house, the average price being 176k

You need a 10% deposit (and that is being optimistic, you would be very lucky with 10%) so 17k

How would you save up 17k for a deposit on a house?

I would be interested to see how you somehow manage to link that to Brexit too, in any way. I am guessing you just deflect and blame it on "omg racist idiots omg"

The problem is people do...and that keeps house prices stupidly high.
Behind every estate agent window is hundreds of people maxing themselves out to buy a house, signing up for 25 years of crippling debt..and everyone loses, too many people in the country, just chained worker bees for the super rich.

 

[Scouse]

Direct question to @Scouse

Again, your roleplay is irrelevant. Of course people can't save for a house. That's not the argument.

The argument was: You posted that there's no "doom" from brexit because unemployment figures were UP - therefore more people are in jobs, therefore things are getting easier. Then you posted that things were getting harder So which is it? Your arguments or points are contradictory.

From my POV - obviously things are getting harder - my post shows that employment figures are bullshit because the jobs and working conditions themselves are shit and getting worse (and Brexit strongly hints, actually shouts loudly, that the protections we do have are going to be further eroded).

 

[Raven]

erm...the two things aren't connected.

Just because more people are in work, does not mean housing is more affordable. However, it does mean more people are in work... which is what I said.

The fact that housing is not affordable and isn't regardless of government is one factor in why the people you disregard as "idiots" have just said "fuck you system" both here and in America. THey have nothing at all to lose, so may as well fuck the system that is grinding them into the floor.

 

[Raven]

Also, if anything any so called doom situation is probably excellent for housing affordability. House prices desperately need to come down, by a lot.

What has happened is that government have hoped that people would use housing ownership as a pension and not rely so much on the state, except is has back fired spectacularly and is actually costing local government more. They thought private house building would sustain a steady market and while a decent capital investment would be reasonably affordable. The housing companies don't see it that way and have drip fed supply to keep it well below demand and thus make them more money. The caveat that they have to build X (10% is it?) amount of "affordable" houses per new build is a joke.

The government need to build millions of affordable homes and they need to do it fast. Yes it will crash the housing market and make peoples pension pots disappear but tough luck.

 

[Raven]

Oops. VW to cut 23,000 jobs in Germany. Now, how many remoaners would pin that on Brexit if it happened here?

 

[caLLous]

Assuming they can read and have any idea of what happened to VW over the past 18 months, probably not very many.

 

[Raven]

Yeah except its part of a general reshuffle and refocus and not directly linked to their idiocy (which is not unique to VW anyway) Sales have been temporarily effected by the diesel issues but it won't hurt them in the long term...even in the short term they have only seen a ~20% fall.

Diesel cars are about to be reamed because of the horror show that comes out the exhaust, all diesel sales will be down, especially fleet, which is their bread and butter.

 

[dysfunction]

But then there is this

UK will have EU bills after Brexit, German finance minister says

And Brexit will be a doddle....

 

[Job]

German Finance minister.. he says lots of things.

 

[Raven]

But then there is this

UK will have EU bills after Brexit, German finance minister says

And Brexit will be a doddle....

Angry, spurned, German politician says blahblahblah

Who care what he says...

 

[Gwadien]

Angry, spurned, German politician says blahblahblah

Who care what he says...

Why did you even try and pretend to be neutral about Brexit? It's pretty clear you're a staunch 'out' voter.

Everything you've posted so far isn't concrete evidence that the UK is going to be a wonderland post-brexit, yet everything someone has posted which is negative about Brexit you've responded with 'bullshit lel!'

 

[dysfunction]

Angry, spurned, German politician says blahblahblah

Who care what he says...

Because what he says matters.
There is a good case for taking an extremely hard line against the UK from an EU perspective.
So yes it could have a major impact on what happens to the UK.

It may seem all nice and rosy now but who knows what Brexit will bring.

If the UK is lumped with expenses they thought they would save for use elsewhere could be quite damaging.

 

[Job]

I know this is my favourite post, but where has our spirit gone?
It's a disease of liberal post reality.
We voted to start the argument, to sort out the legal squirming, to battle out the rules, to leave the EU ..not because it's the easy way, but because we are making a stand against a German led EU with a taste for power WAY beyond it's remit.
We were ridiculed for saying they wanted an army, and are ridiculed for suggesting they want to destroy the nation state..that is next step...and all the moaners can do is fret that we might be a little less rich as a result.
We should hold our heads high for saving Europe from itself again.

 

[Raven]

Why did you even try and pretend to be neutral about Brexit? It's pretty clear you're a staunch 'out' voter.

Everything you've posted so far isn't concrete evidence that the UK is going to be a wonderland post-brexit, yet everything someone has posted which is negative about Brexit you've responded with 'bullshit lel!'

Actually, I voted remain. However...there is little point bitching about it now, it is what it is. Might as well try and make it work.

We will make it work as a country, remoaners will find themselves left behind.

Most of what the desperate remoaners have posted is theory, mostly theory that has so far been proven to be utter nonsense. If you look at their narrative, we should really be living in mud huts by now...trouble is that reality has got in the way of that and as it turns out Britain is a hell of a lot stronger than they would like and will remain so.

Business is booming, unemployment has fallen, consumer confidence has grown, investment is up. You can carry on whinging about it if you like but you will just become that mad bloke that every town high street has, screaming at random people about god smiting them. Everyone has a laugh at you before going back to watching I'm a celebrity.

The funny thing is, remoaners are free to fuck off and live in the EU if they want, there is literally nothing stopping them. Odd that they don't, but there it is.

 

[Raven]

Because what he says matters.

Actually, no it doesn't..not even a little bit.

 

[Raven]

Also, meanwhile, the right continues to grow in Europe, unemployment continues to rise and the debt blockage continues to wobble, it's about to come lose with Spain and Italy keen to drag the rest of the Euro currency countries with it. When it flushes, it will flush hard.

But it's all good, Junker is running the show...a man that built his carrier on tax evasion and cosying up to corporations.

 

[dysfunction]

Actually, no it doesn't..not even a little bit.

I knew you would say that. And your going to disagree with this as well. I won't respond after this on this.

Not if what he says comes to fruition. Then you will find it means quite a lot.
It's not something to bury your head in the sand over.

It's a warning sound as to what to expect in Brexit negotiations.

Also, meanwhile, the right continues to grow in Europe, unemployment continues to rise and the debt blockage continues to wobble, it's about to come lose with Spain and Italy keen to drag the rest of the Euro currency countries with it. When it flushes, it will flush hard.

But it's all good, Junker is running the show...a man that built his carrier on tax evasion and cosying up to corporations.

All the more reason for the warning about a hard line over Brexit to ward off other leavers.