Politics So...Europe then?

[Scouse]

Progression is inclusiveness, not leaving people out.

This. The alternative are the childlike retrograde steps of nationalists.

@throdgrain - do you prefer 'keep your friends close but your enemies closer'?

Cultural change only comes about through (often painful) integration. The alternative solution if far, far worse.

 

[Raven]

Second Senior BCC Spokesman Publicly Endorsed Remain

Something about that seems incredibly fishy. Chairman of neutral organisation is forced out of his job for having an opinion, yet 2 people in the same supposedly neutral organisation have the opposite opinion, yet are still there.

Hmmmm.

Unsurprising really.

Sadly it is predictable that the whole thing is going to be a one sided affair.

 

[Embattle]

Second Senior BCC Spokesman Publicly Endorsed Remain

Something about that seems incredibly fishy. Chairman of neutral organisation is forced out of his job for having an opinion, yet 2 people in the same supposedly neutral organisation have the opposite opinion, yet are still there.

Hmmmm.

To be expected, pillars of so called free speech tend to be rather selective depending on the subject.

 

[throdgrain]

This. The alternative are the childlike retrograde steps of nationalists.

@throdgrain - do you prefer 'keep your friends close but your enemies closer'?

Cultural change only comes about through (often painful) integration. The alternative solution if far, far worse.

I don't need change. Why do you assume that everyone looks at life through the same rose tinteds as you do? Things are fine as they are for me, thanks very much. Muslims can carry on killing and raping and bombing each other for ever as far as I'm concerned.

Islam doesn't want to integrate with us, it want us to integrate with them.

 

[Job]

Greece is bust again and now the Spanish foreign minister has said Spain will occupy Gibraltar if we exit the EU, probably a sound bite, but still, just sums up the reality behind the cordial relationships of this abortion of a union.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't need change. Why do you assume that everyone looks at life through the same rose tinteds as you do? Things are fine as they are for me, thanks very much. Muslims can carry on killing and raping and bombing each other for ever as far as I'm concerned.

Islam doesn't want to integrate with us, it want us to integrate with them.

So what do you say to those very much Westernised muslims in Turkey which REALLY want to join the EU?

 

[DaGaffer]

So what do you say to those very much Westernised muslims in Turkey which REALLY want to join the EU?

Get rid of Erdogan, stop sponsoring ISIS and we'll think about it.

 

[Shagrat]

Get rid of Erdogan, stop sponsoring ISIS and we'll think about it.

Yep.

 

[throdgrain]

So what do you say to those very much Westernised muslims in Turkey which REALLY want to join the EU?

Hmmm ... fuck off springs to mind

 

[Scouse]

rose tinteds as you do? Things are fine as they are for me, thanks very much. Muslims can carry on killing and raping and bombing

Apart from your incredibly short sighted, morally abhorrent fuck-the-world attitude (do you not care about innocents, rape victims or understand that we're a target?) how is an understanding that integration is 'often painful' rose tinted??

Even if you think it is, I'd rather be progressive than denialist...

 

[Scouse]

the Spanish foreign minister has said Spain will occupy Gibraltar if we exit the EU.

So, what you're saying is that we're going to go to war with our European neighbours without the EU?

/Thread, tbfh.

 

[Gwadien]

Funny how no-one posted this

EU referendum: Boris Johnson tells staff to back his stance - BBC News

 

[Raven]

So, what you're saying is that we're going to go to war with our European neighbours without the EU?

/Thread, tbfh.

Nope, just more empty threats from an increasingly desperate country that can see one of its teats being removed, and is terrified.

Ignoring the fact that even if they did throw some of their pretend soldiers onto Gibraltar, it would be against various international laws. Not only that but would also be the aggressor and we would be well within our rights to remove them by bullet.

Not that I imagine anyone important from Spain said that anyway...or that they would be stupid enough to try it.

 

[Raven]

Apart from your incredibly short sighted, morally abhorrent fuck-the-world attitude (do you not care about innocents, rape victims or understand that we're a target?) how is an understanding that integration is 'often painful' rose tinted??

Even if you think it is, I'd rather be progressive than denialist...

Then they need to change their culture. Even if we had the will, Europe could not even come close to taking in all these innocents that you speak of. if the innocents are a small number then that would lead me to believe their culture is broken and we should not want anything to do with them.

The reason moderate cultures integrate so well, Sikhs, Hindus, Africans, Chinese etc is that generally they aren't stark raving mad.

Aside from that, why should I change to suit a culture that hates women, hates freedom of thought and wants nothing more than to spread their evil religion? Its very hard for them to change, it is culturally acceptable to kill people that turn their back on Islam...how is that a starting pount for integration? If we want to help them then we need to do it in situe

 

[DaGaffer]

Aside from that, why should I change to suit a culture that hates women, hates freedom of thought and wants nothing more than to spread their evil religion? Its very hard for them to change, it is culturally acceptable to kill people that turn their back on Islam...how is that a starting pount for integration? If we want to help them then we need to do it in situe

Interestingly, back in the days of the Raj, it was the Hindus that the British had the most trouble with; Islam was understandable to Victorian Christians, whereas Hinduism was bonkers (suttee and all that stuff). And in the here and now Hindu nationalists in India are a pretty nasty lot; and just as bad in their own way as their muslim equivalents; they just don't export their bullshit.

As for Islam changing its culture; I agree, but, what's going on in the Islamic world is also in large part down to western foreign policy over the last century; starting with Sykes-Piquot and Ibn Saud through Aramco and the Shah of Iran, using Islam as an anti-communist tool, to the Iraq invasion; we've thrown fuel on the fire of Islamic fundamentalism at every turn (NB. Israel could be added to that list, but I actually think it's a different issue), and now we're reaping the whirlwind. The problem is its going to be so hard to put the genie back in the bottle that we may have to accept another 30-40 years of low level warfare across the middle east until we shift entirely away from oil and the region ceases to have any value to us. Its brutal but I doubt there's a "solution" out there. Having said that, someone needs to figure out a way for us to stop backing the Saudis and get closer to Iran.

 

[Bodhi]

So, what you're saying is that we're going to go to war with our European neighbours without the EU?

/Thread, tbfh.

Tbfh, if the countries we are in union with have decided to start invading territory just because we'd like an amicable parting of ways, then I'd question if they're the kind of countries we want to be in a union with in the first place.

Tbfh.

 

[DaGaffer]

Greece is bust again and now the Spanish foreign minister has said Spain will occupy Gibraltar if we exit the EU, probably a sound bite, but still, just sums up the reality behind the cordial relationships of this abortion of a union.

He said nothing of the sort; "we’ll be talking about Gibraltar the very next day" is not "we'll be invading Gibraltar the very next day". The key is the word "talking", and the other key is don't get your news from Sun headlines.

 

[Gwadien]

No-one replied to what I posted.

and the main focus of this thread has been the 'bias' so far.

Ironic.

 

[Embattle]

Boris Johnson: EU referendum gag email was 'cock-up' - BBC News

 

[Raven]

When forming an opinion on the most important decision in generations, I think it's probably best to avoid any Guardian or Express editorial, both with agendas or Sun or Mirror editorial, both factually inaccurate.

 

[Bodhi]

Only reasonably balanced reports I've seen on the matter come from The Times and FT but as both are behind paywalls you're kind of reduced to people with Agendas. The BBC get a shedload of funding from the EU so you can forget them as well.

Only question is who the hell are left? Telegraph is usually factually accurate but definitely leaning towards Leave, The Guardian loves the EU as it enables then to keep up their deeply dubious tax affairs (and lecture The Mail on theirs), the Indy is pretty much defunct and the rest are a joke.

So where in the hell do you go? US Media?

 

[throdgrain]

So what do you say to those very much Westernised muslims in Turkey which REALLY want to join the EU?

I don't care about them. I'd say, no you can't join, your country is not of the same economic level as ours, and Islam is fundamentally incompatible with western civilisation.

Or something like that.

 

[throdgrain]

Apart from your incredibly short sighted, morally abhorrent fuck-the-world attitude (do you not care about innocents, rape victims or understand that we're a target?) how is an understanding that integration is 'often painful' rose tinted??

Even if you think it is, I'd rather be progressive than denialist...

You're mad. Why do you think you have to give all your stuff to other people? Particularly ones who don't even really like you. Would you do that with your neighbours?

/edit On a personal scale, all the rape death etc is terrible. On a global scale it is irrelevant. We're a target? No shit.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't care about them. I'd say, no you can't join, your country is not of the same economic level as ours, and Islam is fundamentally incompatible with western civilisation.

Or something like that.

Then they say 'Oh shit, if the West won't accept them, we'll revert back to our backwards religion at its most fundamental routes, which means we must attack non-Muslims!'

Then you'll come here raging with your BNP & BF posts

 

[Raven]

Just because one does not want mentalists over here, does not make them racist. It makes them quite happy with the way things are, thank you very much.

We do not owe them anything, if they do want to come over then they should leave all the head swivelry behind, just like we left ours in the distant past.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm not on about 'over here' I'm on about accepting a country into the EU for their betterment and for global improvement.

I don't think all the people in Turkey want to join the EU so they can all emigrate to the UK, they don't seem to have a problem moving to Germany now...

 

[throdgrain]

Then they say 'Oh shit, if the West won't accept them, we'll revert back to our backwards religion at its most fundamental routes, which means we must attack non-Muslims!'

Then you'll come here raging with your BNP & BF posts

Such bollocks

 

[Embattle]

I'm not on about 'over here' I'm on about accepting a country into the EU for their betterment and for global improvement.

Yeah it has worked wonders for countries like Greece and thus the EU having such idealism while ignoring practical realities, so you would have to ignore an larger amount of fundamental rights/policies to accept a country such as Turkey into the EU.

 

[Gwadien]

Yeah it has worked wonders for countries like Greece and thus the EU taking such fuzzy ideals.

Greece taking the Euro is very different to getting Turkey into the EU.

 

[Job]

He said nothing of the sort; "we’ll be talking about Gibraltar the very next day" is not "we'll be invading Gibraltar the very next day". The key is the word "talking", and the other key is don't get your news from Sun headlines.

You're right, it was the Gibraltar minister who called it a pounce.