Should any TFC Classes be limited?

[old.+SA+Eliminator]

Im sure you will agree with me that this subject has caused many Servers, leagues (including the BWTFCL) and players to voice their concerns and feelings. Some players despise of the numbers of Heavy Weapon Guys and Snipers that are allowed to play on each team, some servers have acted by putting limits on thoese classes, but is it right to stop a potential frst-time player from choosing his/her favourite class. I am now going to carefully look into this and construct my own report. I will be using the column on the BWTFCL site as a place for you to see how the report is coming along and I will be posting some forum messages and talking to Admins and the TFC community to find out what the general view is on this matter. Please post your views on this so my report is as accurate as it can possibly be, remember you are the Catalyst in this report.

 

[old.[RA]Ring Peace]

Class limits have been talked about on many forums and opinions always seem to differ. It is probably true that having classes limited would give a better game but deciding what limits to have is hard.

For clan matches I think having any class limited is ridiculous, it should be the clans decision how their offence and defence is set up. The strange thing is it really is only HW and snipers that annoy people, probably due to the frustration of being killed so easily by them, but once they have been evaded they are pretty much useless. Noone seems to complain when 5 soldiers are on one team or a four man offence made up of medics, and the frustration of attacking a 5 man engy defence is immense.

However, for pub servers it is a different matter. When you join a server and find your team consists of 3 HW and 4 snipers and you it is probably best if you just leave. I think having HW and sniper limited to 2 per team is best and with engy restricted to 2 aswell. Trouble with it though is that there are some ppl that are v good snipers and HW that play a team game, and you just know they aint gonna get that chance.

There is another choice to class limits and that is turning off lag compensation on the server, that would be the best coz all those HPW's can reuse their "LAAAAGGGGGGG" binds

 

[old.Techno]

As I posted on the TF Outpost forums, what people fail to realize is that every class has a counter. Not just one counter, but at least three.

Here's a chart for counters, based mostly on personal experience:

Spy -
Loses vs: Scout, Medic, Demoman
Wins vs: Pyro, Soldier, Engineer

Scout -
Loses vs: Soldier, Engineer, Demoman
Wins vs: Spy, Medic, Sniper

HWGuy -
Loses vs: Medic, Soldier, Pyro
Wins vs: Demoman, Engineer, Sniper

Medic -
Loses vs: Scout, Soldier, Demoman
Wins vs: HWGuy, Pyro, Spy

Pyro -
Loses vs: Spy, Soldier, Medic
Wins vs: HWGuy, Engineer, Sniper

Soldier -
Loses vs: Sniper, Spy, Engineer
Wins vs: HWGuy, Pyro, Medic, Demoman, Scout

Demoman -
Loses vs: Soldier, HWGuy, Engineer
Wins vs: Scout, Spy, Medic

Engineer -
Loses vs: Pyro, Spy, HWGuy
Wins vs: Scout, Soldier, Demoman

Sniper -
Loses vs: HWGuy, Pyro, Scout
Wins vs: Soldier

Guh...? Erm.. i must've miscounted somewhere... According to this, the Soldier is strongest and the Sniper is the weakest class...

I think I confused a few Sniper and Soldiers somewhere, 'cause I'm pretty sure they're all even. Ah well, reguardless.... Enjoy!

 

[vuz]

wow for that answer techno
BUT

HWGuy -
Loses vs: Medic, Soldier, Pyro
Wins vs: Demoman, Engineer, Sniper

aint right, Pyro vs HW Guy, pyro annoys HW Guy, HW Guy decides to use that big old gun of his, Pyro screams and dies a horrible death
Also engineer does well vs HW Guys with the emps...

Sniper -
Loses vs: HWGuy, Pyro, Scout
Wins vs: Soldier

Hmm, Pyro's do well vs Snipers i agree but the chances are another class on the sniper's team will give the pyro beats first
the soldier is very good against snipers i reckon....

Pyro -
Loses vs: Spy, Soldier, Medic
Wins vs: HWGuy, Engineer, Sniper

Pyro looses (full-stop)


bleh

 

[Tui]

People will always blame something else being at fault, never their inability to work as a team or lack of skill. Now it’s the sniper and hardware guy. Whatever you can say about them can be applied to the other classes, someone has already mentioned the engineer. Why? Simply because they can do their job easily and effectively. So, does this mean people want to restrict all classes and force the way they think the game should be played on other players?

 

[exxxie]

*scoff* *chortle* *wheeze*

HWGuy Vs Pyro

Pyro flames away for 10 minutes and lobbs various grenades at the fat fcuk. HWgay eventually notices, spins AC for .43 seconds and pyro seemingly disappears.

Get a grip please!

I dislike intensly all HWGuys except JohnQ who only plays the class in clan matches and is without doubt the finest example of the breed. Pub playing HWgays do me head in, its takes very little skill to be average, thats the main problem here imo. And if I see one with a flag I try desperately to guess the rcon command for the server for the rest of the map. L - A - M - E

Serious bit:

You cant limit ANY classes in matches, dont be silly. (Pub limits are great, come to Shadys and youll find limits on snipers HWguys and Engys. 2 - 2 and 3 respectively).

 

[old.Techno]

What you people don't seem to understand is that I rated the class as a whole (Special abilities and all) when deciding counters.

Except HWGuy versus Engineer. At least, last I played, a HWGuy could go one-on-one with a L3 Sentry Gun and win.

As for Pyros versus Snipers, umm, gee, Incindiary rockets into the nests, anyone? Keeps Snipers pinned easily.

As for HWGuys vs Pyros, simply put, the rockets can keep them in the air and burning and Pyros are much faster than HWGuy's. Haven't you people heard of something called "Circle Strafing"?

I personally never play HWGuy unless I need to take out an annoying Sentry gun.

What you people fail to realize is that each class, yes, even the "invincible" HWGuys and Snipers, have their weaknesses, and a lot of them at that. HWGuys fall prey to rockets, infection, and fire. Snipers can't handle getting blown out of their nests. One solid hit kills most Scouts.

Classes should not be limited. What should happen is those who make teams of only one class should be punished by the better players.

 

[vuz]

HW Guy may beat a l3 sg, but the actual engi has a good chance, and if the sg has any sort of defence...

 

[Tui]

Exactly ViRuZ, people assume it's always 1 on 1, whereas it's a combined effort by a side that provide the strength.

 

[old.+SA+Eliminator]

If you wish to read the completed report then head over to my Column on the BWTFCL site

 

[Tui]

Just to let it run on further

If the quotes you posted are indicative of those in favour of class limits then they really don’t have a case. Saying there is a difference when limits are imposed is stating the obvious as removing any aspect of a game will change the way in which it is played. The general complaint people have about the number snipers and hwguys comes down to them not able to handle being killed every time they try and get passed. Whoever said “it is rather sad to see a newbie with 15 more kills than a trained clan member” has the same problem, shows their lack of understanding the game and should do as they say, “deal with it”.