Sept. 11th

[L_Plates]

Yes i am 25 .. i just dont think the same as others .. yes i am blind to politics as i have said .. no i never dropped out of school .. im just a regular bloke in a regular . No kids have a wife well soon to be ... Anything else ?


All in all perplex everyone is different m8 .. Liek me and you is that wrong ?

 

[old.Mat88]

Well TBH I think it was a bad thing that happened I dont mind ppl still mourning it. The only thing that is annoying me is the fact of all the companies that keep using Sept 11th for an excuse why their profits falling they are using ppl deaths as a scape got even for things that it would not affect thats whats annoying and sick.....................

 

[*charlton_thd*]

Is world peace a no-hoper in the turbulant world we live in?

 

[L_Plates]

i hope not .. but i suppose u wont belive me

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by Damini
P.S. Perplex, I likes you, but I think if we ever got to talking politics at a Barry Beer I think we might need our own moderators

Heh

I can visualise and take onboard all your pointS Dami - I'm hearing ya. I just have 0 empathy or sympathy fo the american nation as a whole. It's the American nation (as a whole) that has been taken over by the Jewish lobby. It's the american nation (as a whole) that has been brainwashed into thinking it's the Palestinians at fault (by the Jew owned and run media). It's the american nation as a whole that has single-handedly supplied Israel with its entire defence budget for about 50 years.

This defence budget covers such items as tanks (the ones that Israeli soldiers have been strapping Palestinian women/children to the front of, to protect their tanks from snipers). It also covers the helicopters that they've been using to target 'military' buildings - shame so many have missed and hit civilian targets.

It also covers the bulldozers that have been run into all the Palestinian cities, leveling entire homes, flats, schools, and hospitals to the floor.

It also covers the cost of the M16 machine guns that the Israeli soldiers carry. The ones they use to shoot at children with (for fun). Yes, the very same gun that shot my 12 year old cousin in the head on his walk home from school.

And the funny thing is, Israel follow in their benefactors footsteps - it's all a war on terror!

My previous words are cold, and I still stand true with that. But let's look at the picture a little closer. You claim that the civilians in america should not have been made to pay the price for their leaders. Well, I refute your point with the simple example of Iraq. It's a fact that hundreds of children are dying daily in Iraq from very simple ailments, because the sanctions imposed by the UN (read: america) means they are not allowed medicine, food, aid, vaccines etc.

America is essentially killing the Iraqi nation on the basis that their leader made a goof. The medicine crisis in Iraq is so bad they are now trying desperately to synthesise medicine that is available EVERYWHERE else in the world, in the hope they can copy it and give it to their dying children.

I say this with no remorse, no sarcasm, and no superficial malice. I'm glad the americans got a taste of their own medicine, I'm just dissapointed that the didn't learn a thing from it. In fact, it made them worse

 

[Damini]

But Perplex, you don't kick a swarm of wasps to pacify them.



On the iraqi topic; Iraq needed to be stopped. The job was hashed, and to compensate for the fact that they could not topple a dictatorship they instead are trying to cripple him with their trade embargos. That's wrong, because the people punished are not the leaders but the little people. I can understand the logic though, of trying to provoke civil unrest and an environment that is ripe for social upheaval, bring a country to its knees, blah blah but the wrong people are being pushed and punished. I don't contend that at all. But these people being hurt and no more or less human than the people in america. In an ideal world global politics would cut out the middle men entirely, and the leaders would meet in a room together and use shotguns or germs at twenty paces. I just honestly can't see how you can feel no emotional draw to the people murdered in america when you so vehemently argue the cause for those being killed in Iraq. I hate to sound like a Readers Digest Guru, but we are all human.

 

[L_Plates]

Nobody is perfect.

British , Americans , Iraq and so on we all have done wrong and no doubt we will agin

We just have to live with the fact we are the only living thing on the the face of the earth that kills for fun / pleasure or hate. Sad but true.

 

[Perplex]

Dami, I wish I could be as idealisitic as that, and in my heart of hearts I am. However, this is not Utopia, it's the harsh reality that in the cold light of day, nobody cares about the others. Simply because America is such a high profile country makes this tradgedy an international disaster. One that the planet will be made to live, relive, and watch on TV for decades to come. However, if the Israelies had killed 3000 palestinians in one foul swoop I can absoloutly garuntee you that the world would have forgotten about it now (due to the Jew owned & run world media). Oh, hold on, I forgot the Israelies indirectly culled/massacred/destroyed/raped/tortured 8000 palestinians in the Sabra & Shatila refugee camps for 'kicks'. Hey, there's no shit on TV about that. There's no gushy mushy tributes and memorials.

The american nation care for nothing but their own self-interests. As such, I have taken a vow to care nothing for them, their woes, or thier current affairs. The world it seems to be eating from the hand of America, and I pity them all equally

/* edit: typo-tastic today Also, I likes you too Dami - I actually enjoy reading the majority of your posts, and you have a really unique writing style. I'm not trying to be offensive for the sake of it, or to troll. I'm being as honest as I can be */

 

[L_Plates]

I know we have not agreed in this topic Perplex .. But you slagged me down for not caring to much for the afganistans .. but you just said you couldnt care less for the americans .. i aint slagging you for that .. im just gonna say like i have said b4 .. Everyone thinks different .. Agreed?

 

[Perplex]

No, I didn't slag you off for not liking the Afghans. I slagged you off because you blather on incoherently (it takes me a few minutes to work out what each of your sentances is supposed to say) without fact, reasoning, or basic intelligible debating skills.

You plough into what is a serious discussion with infantile and purile rants, which are 100% misinformed and wholly ignorant.

Get educated, get a clue, read up and find out what is going on in thye world - you'll look *a lot* less stupid. You may have an excuse for a poor education, but you have no excuse for not learning about the world you live in. The very fact you're posting here indicates you have internet access, and as such you have the worlds largest library at your fingertips. Get reading

 

[Sar]

I agree with Perp on this one tbh. America seem to be trawling for the worlds sympathy, trying to make it out as if this is the worst event that has ever happened to humanity, and that a terrorist attack is for some reason "unique" and worthy of constant going over, again and again...

Like Dams however I do feel sympathy for the families of those that died on 9/11, but nothing more. I feel no sympathy for Amerikkka as a nation, because largely their own blundering into foreign affairs will likely have been the root cause of all their "woes".

And things aren't going to get better - Now that Ole George Dubya is in the Whitehouse things are just going to get worse, because he's just as big a shit stirrer and selfish bastard as his good old pop was.

 

[Damini]

But what you are under stating Perplex is the power of the media as a method to invoke empathy. It's not simply an American thing that makes this high profile, its the ability to *show* that suffering to the world.

How many people here would recognise the famous shots of Vietnam? The POW being shot, the children running naked, suffering horrific burns... Its the fact that we can see these peoples terror and pain starkly before us that moves people. The Vietnam war is not an issue of my generation, beyond the dissection of american foreign policies and the films, but I know those pictures as I'm sure most people here do. I have no pro or anti vietnamese rhetoric, all I know is that people suffered horribly and that touches me, as those photos touched a lot of people back then.

If the world was shown live footage of people being raped and slaughtered in the refugee camps I'm sure the response would be the same. Humans have an amazing ability to moderate or tone down horror stories they hear - for example the german refusal to acknowledge the POW camps until the imagery was thrown into the public domain. Seeing is believing and all. I think this is another reason why the twin towers was such a world wide issue - because it unfolded in real time before us.

I'm not totally soppy. You'd better believe that if anyone did anything to hurt people I cared about I would become vengeance personified, but I'm a firm believer in addressing issues where they are deserved. I don't think you're trolling Perps, but I do think its sad when you are so angry that you can totally blind eye so many people dying and being so terrified before they died.

 

[L_Plates]

yes i am not very well educated, yes i suppose im ignorant. Not everybody has a silver spoon up there ass when they are born ( Im not saying you had )

I dont think the way i was educated was wrong yes it wasnt the best in the world but i know this nobody will ever make me feel like i should never say what i feel.

Look im sick of arguimg about this lets just say .. WE AGREE TO DISAGREE and enjoy the rest of our evening here on the BW forums

Well ?

 

[doh_boy]

I think the americans lost all credibility in world politics when they "Went off on one" with all the crap in afganistan because they can hardly tell israel or the palestinians to stop fighting coz they have done the exact same thing.

My point of view on the Twin Towers is that it was an act of terrorism, the americans tried to make it something of a global thing which it blatently wasn't. I'm sorry about the amount people dead but it has to be put into context. Innocent people die all around the everyday, we don't know/care because we don't know about it, some situations are not "our" fault some are but most countries around the world try to live their lives and get on with it. It doesn' t make them any the less sad/affected but they realise that "fighting fire with fire" just makes a bigger fire.

Most of america's problems stem from their patronising view of other countries, they seem to think that what they do is better and that they are always "right", most other countries resent this and this only breeds contempt and hatred. Also bear in mind that america has managed to wage war a hell of lot for such a "peace loving country".

As for world peace, it's highly unlikly when your country spends so much on it's "defence" Budget.

I know this may sound stupid or hypocritical since I'm english and the english were far worse than america could ever hope to be. The boer war giving hitler some of his "better Ideas".

My point is The twin towers is american news NOT World news. As many people have said we've been bombed left right and centre(and I have my very own 5mins away from a bomb story myself), that has probably left us a little flippant about terrorism. And the fact that if it wasn't for america the IRA would not have survived is just a mild hypocracy.

Saying innocent people deserve to die is and always shall be wrong.

Differentiating people with race/religion/[any other arbitrary thing] will only ensure the tensions between you survive. Things like apologising to the jewish community for mentioning "the war" is pointless as is mentions of "the jewish media", marking people out due to these things only makes it easier for them to segregate themselves from society. To a lesser extent the english muslim community is doing this, they feel separate coz people treat them differently coz they do things slightly different. And we all know what happened there.

ps. I apologise for this being so stilted and it may seem in the wrong order but I was just writing my thoughts as they came to me. and for l-plates: the hitler comment was based on the fact that you seemed to be the sort of person who thinks that whatever their politicians do is right and that patriotism is agreeing with the politicians/leaders. When it really means "to love ones country" and I don't think I need to tell you that a country is the people not the politic.

*gets off his soap-box

/edit sorry it's so long

 

[L_Plates]

Originally posted by doh_boy
l-plates: the hitler comment was based on the fact that you seemed to be the sort of person who thinks that whatever their politicians do is right and that patriotism is agreeing with the politicians/leaders. When it really means "to love ones country" and I don't think I need to tell you that a country is the people not the politic.

*gets off his soap-box [/B]

True. In a way im being educated by you all tonight , i know more than what i did when i 1st posted.

I just dont want to be seen as nazi or a person full of hatred ! I do love my country yes and dont like it when it is hurt by another, that aint wrong as im sure you all agree. I am not a nasty person.

im just not as clued up as most ppl and yes i do jump in withoput all the facts i apollogise !

 

[Perplex]

Dami - I'm not so jaded as to feel nothing. I do genuinely feel sorry for the individuals that were caught up in the events of Sep 11th, and all the other events stemming hundreds of years before and to come. I do however feel they were sacrificed indirectly by their own government - one they and their ancestors formed and maintained, and as such this could have been a wake-up call to the rest of their nation that their country is run by buffoons. Unfortunately this is not how events transpired, mainly due to the fact that the Jew run media machine saw it as an ideal opportunity to further taint the american populace against arabs (even though Afghanistan is not an arabic nation - Americans are dumb enough on the whole to confuse religion with race)

Very nice post Doh_Boy, with some nice points. If only you realised that this whole facade stemming back to the turn of the century is pretty much all to blame on the Jewish hardcore. I started to read a fantastic book (but never finished) called "The Holocaust Industry", written by a jewish bloke, slagging off all the Jews for using the Holocaust to get whatever they want from most westernised nations in the world. This pretty much sums it up.

 

[Munkey-]

reason why most arab countries hate us is beacause we treat/ed them like shit.

Britain ruled some countries out here (qatar as case in point) and left it fucked over, not allowing it to develop properly etc. when they pulled out.


Now they have oil we now act the complete opposite. thinking their little bastards who deserve no place on this planet but still kissing their ass.

(saw program few years ago about this)

Coloniolism effected our image badly and the problem is, a large majority of people still act like this (especially out here). They act like their superior, treating both arabs and indians/pakistanis (as well as a few others) like shit even though they work harder, encourage their kids better at school and will fall over themselves to help you in a crisis.

that explains about britain. america requires too much typing about israel and palestine (something i dont understand that much)


btw, do excuse me if the above sounds wierd. but v.tired and aint making any coherant remarks

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Perplex
I can visualise and take onboard all your pointS Dami - I'm hearing ya. I just have 0 empathy or sympathy fo the american nation as a whole. It's the American nation (as a whole) that has been taken over by the Jewish lobby. It's the american nation (as a whole) that has been brainwashed into thinking it's the Palestinians at fault (by the Jew owned and run media). It's the american nation as a whole that has single-handedly supplied Israel with its entire defence budget for about 50 years.

The most powerful people in America are often Arabs or Iranians actually, the "jewish lobby" argument is just a repeat of the "order of sion" propaganda rubbish that inspired the Russian pogroms and Hitler, there is no factual proof that jews control America or any other country besides Israel, the brainwashing is on your side.

Arabic countries and Iran contain no internal production facilities for their weponry, it all comes from the outside, you can level the blame equally at China, Russia and other countries for arming Israel's enemies too.

Originally posted by Perplex
My previous words are cold, and I still stand true with that. But let's look at the picture a little closer. You claim that the civilians in america should not have been made to pay the price for their leaders. Well, I refute your point with the simple example of Iraq. It's a fact that hundreds of children are dying daily in Iraq from very simple ailments, because the sanctions imposed by the UN (read: america) means they are not allowed medicine, food, aid, vaccines etc.

America is essentially killing the Iraqi nation on the basis that their leader made a goof. The medicine crisis in Iraq is so bad they are now trying desperately to synthesise medicine that is available EVERYWHERE else in the world, in the hope they can copy it and give it to their dying children.

Sactions dont cover food and medicine, your argument is false, as is your assumption that UN = America, in fact the USA has departed from UN policy on many occasions.

Iraqi policies are causing needless death, the Iraqi government are the ones refusing to spend oil money allocated to medicine.

The Iraqis are especially good at synthesising stuff, they created some very effective poisons they tried out on Kurds many times, wiping out whole villages.

I'm no big fan of Israel, their style of politics and warped sense of democracy sickens me, but I don't associate America with Israel's actions, and I don't believe you should alienate an entire countries population and citizens simply because of a loose association with your oppressors.

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by camazotz

The most powerful people in America are often Arabs or Iranians actually, the "jewish lobby" argument is just a repeat of the "order of sion" propaganda rubbish that inspired the Russian pogroms and Hitler, there is no factual proof that jews control America or any other country besides Israel, the brainwashing is on your side.

Wrong.
http://globalfire.tv/nj/e2001/politics/taki_sharon.htm

And a little quote to rub salt in your wounds:

New York's Free Weekly Newspaper - Volume 14, Issue 41
Thursday, October 11, 2001
Le Maitre
Taki

Sharon & God

Ariel Sharon has to be the most myopic and pig-headed Israeli prime minister ever. I am sad to say it, but his arrogance borders on insanity, and it will cost America, as well as Israel, dearly.

Let’s face it. Without America Israel would not exist. It would never have survived 50 years of Arab aggression, and it is high time that Israelis and Jews the world over came to realize that Islamic fundamentalist fanatics hate America for its support of Israel. Continuing to play hardball to satisfy a small core of Israeli voters is craven and eventually self-defeating. Sharon and his clique do not seem to realize that more people were killed on Sept. 11 than in all of Israel’s wars since independence in 1948. Equally ironically, both Sharon and bin Laden share the belief that the Israeli lobby in Washington controls American foreign policy.

I can't believe you are that unknowledgable on current political sub-plots. I've always respected your posts highly for your informed and well written points of view. Even the Israeli prime minister admits that the Jewish Lobby pretty much runs Americas foriegn affairs in regards to the middle east.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1969000/1969542.stm
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/gordonoct98.htm

Originally posted by camazotz
Arabic countries and Iran contain no internal production facilities for their weponry, it all comes from the outside, you can level the blame equally at China, Russia and other countries for arming Israel's enemies too.

Wrong.
http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1988/04/mm0488_05.html - and a quote:

As in past years, the bill devotes more than one-fifth of the total foreign aid budget to Israel--about three times what the United States will spend on all of sub-Saharan Africa next year. American assistance will equal roughly 11 percent of Israel's gross national product, and will pay for more than a third of Israel's defense budget

http://www.incite-national.org/issues/opposeaid.html - and a quote:

5. US Foreign Aid to Israel Maintains the Military-Industrial Complex Here in the US. The US requires Israel to use 75 percent of all the military aid it receives to buy US-made arms. Consequently, every year billions of dollars are funneled from US taxpayers to hundreds of arms corporations, who then wage lobbying campaigns pushing for even more foreign military aid. The results of this policy are two-fold: it not only diverts much needed funding from domestic education and social programs, but it makes US citizens complicit in the abuses committed by the Israeli army.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/terroraid.html
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/lastaid.html - and a quote (this is a jewish website by the way)

The administration requested $1.98 billion in military aid and $840 million in economic assistance for Israel

So, you're saying that US pumping 2 billion dollars in one year into the Israeli defense budget is them not fathering them? Ok, sure. Strange perspective on reality huh.
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html - and a quote:

Moreover, unlike Israel, which receives nearly all its aid from the United States

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html
That basically demonstrates that the US gives Israel over 3 billion a year in 'aid' (this is a back door for military defence aid)

Originally posted by camazotz
Sactions dont cover food and medicine, your argument is false, as is your assumption that UN = America, in fact the USA has departed from UN policy on many occasions.

Iraqi policies are causing needless death, the Iraqi government are the ones refusing to spend oil money allocated to medicine.

The Iraqis are especially good at synthesising stuff, they created some very effective poisons they tried out on Kurds many times, wiping out whole villages.

Wrong.
http://www.iacenter.org/iraqchallenge/richardwalton.htm - and a quote:

This is not about Saddam Hussein, although American politicians and many ordinary Americans argue that it is he who is responsible for the death and misery caused by the most draconian sanctions in history. Saddam, to be sure, will have to answer to history, and his own people, for his actions over the decades, but it is the United Nations, with the United States as the driving force, that established the economic blockade that for a decade has led to the death of more than a million people, most of them children under the age of five, and suffering of many kinds not much better than death. I argue that we, too, will have to answer to history. We are not responsible or accountable for what Saddam has done; we are responsible and accountable for what we have done

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/depts/clinic/ihr/hrcomments/1996/sept11-96.html - and a quote:

Lost amid our cruise missiles and no-fly zones in Iraq has been another, more devastating measure: the President's insistence on postponing a U.N. oil-for-food deal, that would allow Iraq to sell oil to buy desperately needed food and medicine

Why are sanctions deadly? During the war we bombed Iraq's water and sewage systems. Ever since, U.N. sanctions have banned Iraq -- whose economy depends on selling oil -- from selling or buying anything. In theory, an exception was made for food and medicine. But since Iraq could not sell oil, it lacked the money to buy them. Or to repair water and sewage systems.

So Iraqi children, weak from malnutrition, drink water contaminated by their own sewage. They get diarrhea or infections. But when they go to the hospital, doctors lack medicine for diarrhea, antibiotics for infections, or . . . you name it.

One example: before the war, Baghdad had fifty ambulances. Now, reportedly, it has only two that run. Yet when a Canadian group last month tried to donate an ambulance, the U.N. turned it down as not "essential."

Originally posted by camazotz
I'm no big fan of Israel, their style of politics and warped sense of democracy sickens me, but I don't associate America with Israel's actions, and I don't believe you should alienate an entire countries population and citizens simply because of a loose association with your oppressors.

I've pretty much refuted every last ill-informed opinion you had to offer. It's not like you to make such ill-informed posts, as I said, I've always enjoyed your posts for their obvious background knowledge and clarity of expression.

It saddens me that even one that I thought to be the more enlightened is in actual fact shrouded in the shadows of ignorance

 

[Sawtooth]

I know who Id have liked to be in the twin towers that day.
Its always the people that pay for politicians mistakes.

 

[xane]

You've made a poor choice of examples for your opinion that "jews run america", my point is that this is a simple conspiracy no different to what has gone before, if you look at the "credibility" of your links then maybe you'll see what I mean.

http://globalfire.tv/nj/e2001/politics/taki_sharon.htm

Look further at this website, its a religion-obsessed looney bin of extremist opinions, I don't doubt you would find support for your views here.

http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/gordonoct98.htm

This is a confusing link, the article describes how a small lobbying group is attempting to change the views within jewish organisations, not America. The article mentions that "the majority of Jews vote for Democratic candidates", yet the ruling party in america is Republican. Again, this is actual evidence of a schism within jews in america, rather than how they are united and control the show as is imagined.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wo...000/1969542.stm

The dear old BBC, but the article shows support for jewish groups from _christian_ organisations ! If the jews were so powerful why do they need support ? It comes as no surprize to me that fanatic christian groups in america have changed into anti-muslin mode after 09/11, still no evidence of a jewish-run america.


The rest of your evidence does not counter my claims, I make no suggestion that america does not fund israel, I do not dispute that claim, but I do suggest that israel's enemies are being funded too, but no-one seems to want to attack those suppliers of death.


http://www.iacenter.org/iraqchallenge/richardwalton.htm

Bloody hell, does this guy know what a paragraph is ? I've seen countless examples of essays explaining how sanctions have indirect effects on the causes of death, yet many don't simply hold water.

For example, the above essay mentions "Because water-purification and sewage-treatment plants could not be rebuilt, infectious disease became rampant", but Iraq has a very small coastline and a large amount of fresh water from two big rivers, unlike many other gulf states it is not dependent on water purification to provide clean supplies, so how this relates to large numbers of deaths is questionable.

Again the website chosen is a poor example, http://www.iacenter.org describes itself as "Information, Activism, and Resistance to U.S. Militarism, War, and Corporate Greed, Linking with Struggles Against Racism and Oppression within the United States", hardly an unbias source.

Why don't you choose a better more informed example, lets take this one: http://www.un.org/News/ossg/iraq.htm

The actual UN website listing sanctions against Iraq, take a look at Resolutions 661 (1990), 712 (1991) and 986 (1995), all of which specifically allow oil-for-food and humanitarian supplies to Iraq.

Interesting your example does not link back to this page, in fact surprizingly I've yet to see a "sanctions are killing Iraqi kids" style essay that does.

I've pretty much refuted every last ill-informed opinion you had to offer. It's not like you to make such ill-informed posts, as I said, I've always enjoyed your posts for their obvious background knowledge and clarity of expression.

Yes, we all know about "ill-informed posts" don't we ?

 

[Munkey-]

no offence chaps. but this argument will continue on for ages.....and ages.........and ages.........without no proper end conclusion. each believing themselves right and the others wrong

 

[old.Fweddy]

let them carry on if they want to. its interesting.

 

[Munkey-]

its just that I have to go through this at least once a week. same argument, same opinions

 

[mr.Blacky]

http://globalfire.tv/nj/e2001/politics/taki_sharon.htm

ohhh it is a funny site.

 

[xane]

I'm not sure if it's the same person, but it certainly reads like the "Taki" reknowned in the british press for his rather eccentric views, i.e. Taki Theodoracopulos, columist for the Spectator.

Western culture was built on religion and will survive because people believe in themselves and in God. Atheist societies have never made it. Secularists may try to poison our youth all they want, but the proof is in the pudding. Atheist societies wither, their birth rates decline as they choose comfort over procreation. Art and literature turn decadent and pornographic, and the people turn to drugs and excessive alcohol-consumption.

strange words from a man himself caught "chasing the dragon".

 

[Perplex]

You'll have to excuse the quality of my links, but I started writing that post at 4am. Anyway, I'm beyond the point of effort to actually sit back and search quality resources for the time being as I'm far too busy today. Maybe towards the latter part of the weekend.

 

[old.Arienh]

I will start off by saying that I don't usually read forums and I try hard to stay away from topics as disturbing as this one, but unfortuanetly, my husband was borrowing my computer and he does read them. This thread happened to be up on my screen.

Reading about half of this instilled feelings of disbelief and anger. I am an American married to a German man, currently living in Germany and over the past few years of being away from the states, I can honestly say that I miss it. I miss the way of life that I am used to. But I don't miss the political screw-ups, the abuse and atrocities that an unintelligent jerk of a 'president' is able to commit, and the overwhelming violence. I am not a fan of fanatical patriots- of any nationality or religion.

That being said, I was appalled to read so many people writing here that all of those people who died- including CHILDREN- deserved it!! How dare you say that we are being dramatic Americans? How can you dare to say that we had it coming? The people responsible for the crimes committed against others are the ones who deserve the punishment- NOT 2 month old babies and people traveling home to loved ones!!

My aunt had an appointment scheduled within the World Trade Center that morning, but for some miraculous reason, she had decided to reschedule until later that afternoon. A friend lost his dearest buddy in that tragedy and another lost his entire lot of co-workers! How can anyone say that these people deserved their fate, or that they should just move on, that they are just being melodramatic? My mother was there, at ground zero after this, a friend having lived just across the water. Nothing but black smoke for days in his apartment and with the phone connections being so bad after the planes crashed, we could do nothing but wait for three days to hear if loved ones were alive! Now tell me that they deserved it.

I realize that the ignorant little monsters who posted such filth will most likely take the opportunity to flame a little more, but I couldn't just sit back and say nothing. My heartfelt thanks to those who took the time to post links and who opposed the lunacy of the juveniles claiming that the violence was justified.

 

[Perplex]

Nobody said they deserved it. My point was that this sort of thing has been happening to other nations for decades, and the americans havn't cared one little bit. Suddenly when it happens to them they expect the whole world to cry and grieve for them.

America has done worse to other nations for decades, yet they get a taste of their own medicine and they don't like it. I don't advocate the death of innocent individuals at all. Please stop being so overly emotional in such a stereotypical american way.

 

[old.Aird Fitzdeagle]

Perplex and the jewish world conspiracy... wee...

Let me guess... you like the color brown, your hair short and Hitler had just the kinda attitude you like...

What did you say? "I don't like the american attitude" something?
Well, what's their attitude?
What's the average englishman's, french's, german's attitude?

You try to sound like a smart guy- but all you do, is to bash one sterotype with the other *insert sarcastic applause here*

3000 human beings died... not "americans"..
people from ALL OVER THE WORLD worked in the twin towers...
not "just" americans.
And even if it had been all straight redneck cowboys... what difference does it make? Victims...

God, how full of shit does one have to be to compare a number of victims with the other??
5000 die in Afghanistan... 3000 in NYC... Beg your pardon?
Does the average Joe Smokey have any say where the US Air Force blasts off?

People like you and their little ideologies/stereotypes make me sick.
Yes, a lot of americans are very patriotic... and you want to deny them being proud of their country?
Well, so tell every patriot across the globe to stop loving his/her country... sheesh, what would that be... ah, FACISM... now there was the word again...

Being melodramatic about it? If someone had parked a Boeing in the City of London... dunno.. would you call it melodramatic if people were still shocked after 10 years?

Americans are no aliens from a different planet. They have every right to be deeply in shock... and they have every right to strike back. Does that justify killing civilians.. of course not!
But what would you suggest?
"Ah, Usama... bad juju there in NYC... but we'll let it go this time."???

I hardly ever use bad language, kid. But you are one sack full of crap....