Sept. 11th

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by Stu-

The existence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda is a direct result of American funding of guerillas to shift the (entirely legitimate) former Soviet communist regime in Afghanistan. Without the intervention of the United States in a foreign matter that they had absolutely no interest in

ROFL No No and another no. The Taliban as a organisation did not exist until after the soviet occupation. The US had an interest: keeping soviet forces occupied, draning them etc. The Afghan war is one of the reasons why the USSR doesn't exist anymore. Making the US the only superpower in the world. So I would say the US had an interest.
As for your comment about oil, yes they have a large part of the world oil reserve and if they wouldn't sell they would create a severe economic recesion, but the ME couldn't keep the embargo for 6 months second and other nations would love to jump into the gap created by the ME.

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by Mr.Blackshirt


ROFL No No and another no. The Taliban as a organisation did not exist until after the soviet occupation. The US had an interest: keeping soviet forces occupied, draning them etc. The Afghan war is one of the reasons why the USSR doesn't exist anymore. Making the US the only superpower in the world. So I would say the US had an interest.

Errr, you do know that Usuma BinLaden was trained DIRECTLY by the CIA right? Sheesh

 

[mr.Blacky]

Errrr, was saying the Taliban not Bin Laden. Unles you are saying that Bin Laden belongs to the Taliban? If so then the US have a much better legitimate reason to attack them. They are using the fact that some aid was given by the Taliban to Bin Laden as reason enough to attack.


Ok and now something else I have seen a lot of US bashing here, and now I am wondering. If not the US then who should be the most prominent country in the world? Most governments I wouldn't trust with a match so why attack the US so much. Unless its about the tall tree's catching the most wind.

 

[Perplex]

Their foriegn affairs policy for the past 200 years has been so bad it defies words.

They are arrogant beyond a scale measurable within the realms of the imagination.

They don't take the role of worlds 'big brother' gaciously and with restraint. They shove it down everyones throats, constantly trying to exert their superiority and constantly flexing their military muscles.

One of a billion examples would be the agreement Clinton made with the world pollution committee, and the agreement that America would make an attempt to adhere to the conditions and try to reduce their pollution. Bush steps in and gives the entire rest of the world the middle finger.

You look at this all far too 2-dimensionally.

 

[Scouse]

Just a strange and v.thinly related one....

They say they've failed to recover the remains of about 1000-1500 people.

Now, 1500 people adds up to a rather large stack of meat. So where the smeg did that all go?

(And DON'T tell me that the NY hot-dog vendors were making a killing).......

 

[Embattle]

They are still going through many body parts found but you've got to remember not much would remain after 1.8million tons of rubble fails on you.

Another two stories regarding the US Mistakes & Screwage:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_2020000/2020068.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_2018000/2018991.stm

 

[Scouse]

They are still going through many body parts found but you've got to remember not much would remain after 1.8million tons of rubble fails on you.

I think you're wrong there - there'll be 270,000 pounds of spam....

 

[Scouse]

And yup, nice links - the US Armed forces love being gung-ho don't they.

How come you never hear about the French/British/Canadian/anyone else's forces caught shooting their allies in Afghanistan?

I bet that Canada were pleased as punch that the first casualties they took since Korea were caused by the Yanks.....

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Perplex
One of a billion examples would be the agreement Clinton made with the world pollution committee, and the agreement that America would make an attempt to adhere to the conditions and try to reduce their pollution. Bush steps in and gives the entire rest of the world the middle finger.

Clinton was an asshole. Actually America is still reducing its pollution in line with previous commitments, they have simply withdrawn from Kyoto because the costs are too prohibitive, and the rest of the world isn't doing the same.

Kyoto was a giant pie in the face for America delivered by the eco-nazis, there was no intention to reduce world pollution, just hurt America and the West financially, Clinton was weak and took it on the chin, whereas Bush stood up to the bullshit, the world has more immediate problems.

I actually wish Britain had the bollocks to do the same

 

[Scouse]

Kyoto was a giant pie in the face for America delivered by the eco-nazis, there was no intention to reduce world pollution, just hurt America and the West financially

By eco-nazis you must mean us. If you look at the history of the thing the west is the driving force behind all this....

And - do you think it's OK for 25% of all greenhouse gasses to be produced by the good ole US of A?

 

[Big G]

Here's a message to everyone arguing on this thread:

*NO*

 

[PR.]

Last time that was posted it was deemed inappropriate.

I found the quote amusing though...

Just a warning

 

[Munkey-]

n1. Bodhi used it
n2. dont make fun of people who havent had the same chances as us
n3. this thread is gay

 

[Embattle]

It has been removed in the pass.

 

[Big G]

oh come on, total lack of sense of humour here.

You may only take the moral high ground if:

1. you've never called anyone a spaz
2. you've never made a "mongo" face/noise

I very very very much doubt anyone on this earth has adheared to the above.

Gaz

 

[Scouse]

After my spam comment I find it hard to believe that Trebz is censoring things...

someone PM me what he said - want to see if Trebz had a sense-of-humour failure

 

[Perplex]

Trust one retard to come along and ruin what was an extraordinarily intellectual thread for this forum

 

[Scouse]

Don't kid yourself. I've seen more intellectual discussion going on between my two infant nieces

 

[Durzel]

This entire thread leaves a very nasty taste in my mouth.

Whilst the events of 11/9 didn't directly affect me, I sympathised with the families of those affected by the tragedy. That truly was about the extent of my involvement with it, and aside from observing the national silence I went about my business in the normal fashion.

What I find distasteful about this whole debacle is the notion of "blame" - either expressed or implied. Saying things like "they didn't deserve to die" and then pointing out that the US "got some of its own medicine" in the same sentence beggars belief. I would personally rather see people have courage in their convictions in saying they either clearly sympathise, or don't, with what went on. Claiming that the people didn't deserve to die and then saying that America, collectively, got a taste of its own medicine (which is a cold, cold way of putting it) indicates that any sympathy expressed is both disingenuous and hollow.

No one deserves to die through the actions of a government, whether they be Palestinian, Jews, Americans, Afgans or whatever. There is no justification for what happened on 11/9, just as there is no justification for the many wrongs the US has committed against other nations, factions and parties.

Saying things like "they got a taste of their own medicine" is an inexcusably callous thing to say.

 

[doh_boy]

I think they just put wrongly, I think the jist of what they meant is that now the US "brought in on themselves" by the way they have gone about their foreign policy. Saying that their actions were a main factor in the reason why the terrorist did what they did doesn't prevent people from expressing their condolences to the people effected.

It was a horrible thing to happen but the americans have been disliked in a lot of poor countries(some african as well not all middle-eastern) due to not only the government but the actions of us (ok ok AND British) companies bad treatment of poorer countries. Also the fact that it took something like this to make america realise that terrorism is a problem for everybody is a bit sad.

all in all, this black cloud may have some silver lining after all. If the americans now use their global power more responsibly it may improve life for a great many people.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Scouse
By eco-nazis you must mean us. If you look at the history of the thing the west is the driving force behind all this....

And - do you think it's OK for 25% of all greenhouse gasses to be produced by the good ole US of A?

Maybe you don't realise what the problem is, not that the USA produces so much "gas", but the fact the rest of the world is too poor to do the same.

"Greenhouse gas" is not the same as "pollution", the levels of airbourne pollutants have been in constant decline for the last 50 years and continue to do so, the west _has_ cleaned up its act. "Greenhouse gas" is a partial myth, possibly related to global warming and its impact is unscientifically proven, our only evidence is dodgy computer models based on worse-case scenarios.

Kyoto penalises "greenhouse gas" producers, unfortunately this has far more impact on developing countries than the US, but that's okay for eco-nazis because poor people don't pollute, so they like to keep them poor and starving.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Durzel
What I find distasteful about this whole debacle is the notion of "blame"

It's the same old story, my opposition point to Perplex is about his notion of the "jewish domination" myth, something that has perpetuated for hundreds of years and is unproven and unfeasible.

The sad fact is even when blame doesn't exist, people will find any excuse.

 

[old.Chimp Choker]

Once again Perplex you spout fanatical Arab rantings on these forums .
Do the honourable thing take your RAGHEADED arse on the next flight out of the UK to Palestine when you arrive strap much explosive to your miserable body make sure no one is within a mile of you and blow yourself up .
Then the rest of us will not have to put up with fanatical rantings anymore .

 

[Durzel]

Originally posted by doh_boy
Iall in all, this black cloud may have some silver lining after all. If the americans now use their global power more responsibly it may improve life for a great many people.

Never a truer word spoken.

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by Durzel
Never a truer word spoken.

Unfortunately I doubt it will last long.

 

[stu]

Originally posted by Mr.Blackshirt
ROFL No No and another no. The Taliban as a organisation did not exist until after the soviet occupation. The US had an interest: keeping soviet forces occupied, draning them etc.

The Taliban grew out of the Pakistani intelligence/secret service. Which was directly funded, supported, and trained, by the USA.

The Afghan war is one of the reasons why the USSR doesn't exist anymore. Making the US the only superpower in the world. So I would say the US had an interest.

True, I phrased it incorrectly, and in fact you've done me a favour - the USA did not really have a LEGITIMATE interest in the domestic affairs of Afghanistan. Unless you think it's legitimate foreign policy to unlilaterally decide to openly undermine and subvert the influence of another country, to the extent of going to war against its perfectly legitimate territories/interests, simply because you don't like their beliefs and are scared they might have more money than you. But without having the guts to declare war on the country itself, for fear it might actually do you some damage. Oh, hang on, that's exactly what they're doing with the Middle East at the moment... good to see they've learned, anyway.

 

[stu]

Originally posted by Chimp Choker
Once again Perplex you spout fanatical Arab rantings on these forums .
Do the honourable thing take your RAGHEADED arse on the next flight out of the UK to Palestine when you arrive strap much explosive to your miserable body make sure no one is within a mile of you and blow yourself up .
Then the rest of us will not have to put up with fanatical rantings anymore .

"Irony in motion" (ibid Bodhi)

 

[xenon2000]

Thanks for the quality and well informed argument, Chimp Choker. Shame you couldn't have posted it somewhere where people might actually give a fuck about what half-arsed rambling insults you have to put forward.

 

[Munkey-]

i reccomend JOLT!

 

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by Stu-


The Taliban grew out of the Pakistani intelligence/secret service. Which was directly funded, supported, and trained, by the USA.

this is true, but does the CIA have control over the Pakistani IS? no. even the government of Pakistan has hardly got any control over their IS.

to openly undermine and subvert the influence of another country

the Taliban were never accepted as the government of Afghanistan, so in fact you could say the US has restored the legitimate government

the USA did not really have a LEGITIMATE interest in the domestic affairs of Afghanistan

see above with the adition that the recognised government agreed to the presence of US/UK forces. But otherwise the only reason I can come up with is that the Taliban helped Al Quada with the attacks, and seeing what is known about the relationship between them it would not surprise me.


Chimp Choker :
You fall in the same categorie as all the other fanatics, so please go away.