Season 6

[vuz]

The BWTFCL admins noticed that BWTFCL has slowly but surely turned into a large scale league that, while perhaps offering a better service than some, has gotten worse in terms of the quality of service and what we offer to clans. BWTFCL started out because UKTFCL was crap (no offence to current UKTFCL team who are doing a fantastic job running a v nice league), and at the time we sorted that having a very nice league in which all problems were solved within minutes and we got not a single complaint.

However, BWTFCL grew and grew and the admins got more and more frustrated at severe lack of time and constant private messaging on IRC - we don't reply to all private messages and sort all problems because there simply are to many. The following is how we intend to sort this so that we can truly be the best bloody league TFC has to offer.

Season 6 Proposals
We want to create:
- a league where we can help clans more easily and sort thier problems out with ease.
- a league which is slightly different, more fun to compete in, better quality all round.

So, following talking to head admins, and then a larger meeting of all admins earlier this evening the following proposals have been finalised for season 6 and are what we will be working with to sort out season 6 in time for a fairly swift in early 2002.

We will get rid of the current huge league.
We will create a smaller league.
We will run a tournament along side it which could be compared to the FA Cup in english football.
We will also run fun tournaments along side both of the above.

League Layout
The league will be 72 clans, split up as follows:
Premiership: 12 clans
Division 1: 12 clans
Division 2a: 12 clans
Division 2b: 12 clans
Division 3a: 12 clans
Division 3b: 12 clans

2a and 2b, and 3a and 3b, are of equal standard and will both lead to promotion to div 1/div 2 but there will not be playoffs like this season. The promotions and relegations will be handled as follows:

The bottom 4 clans from prem go down, the top 4 clans from division 1 go up.
The bottom 4 clans from division 1 go down, the top 2 clans from each division 2 group go up.
The bottom 3 clans from each division 2 group go down, the top 3 from each division 3 group go up.

The current 3/2/1/0 point scoring will be replaced by 3/1/0/-1.

Fixtures
Currently we allow clans to arrange their own fixtures and this is the single area where most problems are caused:
- Clans don't arrange their fixtures on time
- Clans don't turn up to their games or cancel with very little time beforehand
- Referees don't sign up for fixtures, partially because they don't appear for so long.

So, instead we will go to a fixed fixture structure, whereby we arrange the fixtures:
- Premiership use the servers on Sundays.
- Division 1 use the servers on Wednesdays.
- Division 2a use the servers on Mondays.
- Division 2b use the servers on Thursdays.
- Division 3a use the servers on Tuesdays.
- Division 3b use the servers on Saturdays.

All games will be played at 8pm UK time - there are 6 games every evening and we will no longer have the need for (and will return to BW) 8a/8b.

Serious Tournament
The main tournament that takes place during the season FA Cup style will use the following layout:
Week 1 of Season: -
Week 2 of Season: -
Week 3 of Season: Round 1: All div 3 clans and 8 picked randomly from Div 2 (16 games)
Week 4 of Season: Round 2: Rest of Div 2 clans vs the above winners (16 games)
Week 5 of Season: Round 3: The winners and all Prem/Div 1 clans compete (16 games)
Week 6 of Season: Round 4: The winners compete (8 games)
Week 7 of Season: Quarters: The winners compete (4 games)
Week 8 of Season: Semis: The winners compete (2 games)
Week 9 of Season: Finals The winners compete (1 game)
Week 10 of Season: -
Week 11 of Season: -

All clans within the league will automatically be entered for this tournament. It will run on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays with games starting at 9:30pm.

Fun tournament
A variety of fun tournaments will run at the weekends using the servers from 9:30 onwards on Saturday and Sunday evenings - whether or not you have to be in the league to enter these depends on the individual tournaments but clans will not automatically be entered into this.

The first fun tournment will be a 4 team tournament, it will start with between 32 and 128 clans and probably work in a format whereby it is knockout through out - the top two teams go through - the teams who get knocked out in the first round get a 'second' chance in the 'silver' cup as opposed to the main 'gold' cup.

Admins
The admins will be restructured and only the best will be used:
- vuz overall top guy sorting stuff/site/etc.
- Fonz will be helping sort the site, and possibly others.
- Jesta (possibly with help from Bovi or Xia) will be running the league.
- Demo will be running the serious tournament.
- Various people running fun tournaments, the 4v4v4v4 tournaments will be run by fade.

As well as:
- 6 night league admins, 1 for each division/group - the admins are responsible for answering questions AND for being online and available to sort out all problems on each night. These will be like head admins and will sort out all the problems on any one night.
- 4 night tournament admins, 1 for each night similar to above.
- 1 Ref Admin for replacing any referees who leave.
- 16 league referees each to be assigned to 2 games a week.
- 8 tournament referees each to be assigned to (up to) 2 tournament games a week, and cover league referees who go away.

Generally there will be a lot less admins and a lot less work, which overall leads to a much better organisational structure (which is good ).

Site
The site will remain of the same look but we will be using the BarrysWorld (no TFCL) database of players and clans. This will mean the site does need to be redone to an extent - however it will not be the same as now - the complex fixture/server/ref systems can go out the window (Clans don't need to log in!! all their changes can be made through BW's system and they don't need to do anything other than add players and change simple details!!), and while I doubt we'll have quite such a nice automated site in some areas it won't be any where near such a problem to keep up to date.

The database and coding will be handled by BW's system 'Neville' and then the 'night' admins will input all results and changes at the end of each evening (referee's will inform these admins of results).

Clans dropping
Another rule that will come in is that if you miss you first week game we will straight away replace you with a back up clan. From then on we will not replace clans (possibly in week 2, certainly not later) but will remove any clan who misses more than 1 game in a row, or 3 games within the whole season.

Clans joining
The clans we feel we want in our league the most from season 5 will get first dibs into season 6, from then on we will test out clans through making them play games etc to see if they are of the standard required.

Don't wanna play on BWTFCL servers!
ALL games will be on BWTFCL servers, if your clan doesn't wish to play on BWTFCL servers you will be told not to join. If there are on-the-night problems this will be sorted by postponing games til a later stage.

Don't wanna play on the allocated night!
Same as above, if you can't do it the message will be - don't join. Div 2/Div 3 standard clans will be able to say what night they would prefer to play on from the two on offer.

The servers are in use every night other than fridays on which we'll either use them for fun tournaments or let admins/referees/pickups/whatever use them.

Season 5
Season 5 will continue to run as current - however there will be no playoffs to sort out relegations. Title playoffs will occur and we will look at how clans do when allocating spaces within divisions next season - however we will not be able to guarantee that high spots in any division means promotion for season 6.

We apologise for this but hope you agree that what we are trying to sort is a much better league for everyone which is more fun to compete within which division you're in.

soooooooo...
That kinda rounds up the decisions, I'm tired and haven't written as much as I would like but I hope you agree with our decision that this will lead to a much more structured league which in turn is more fun to play in and any hassle factor of arranging games or sorting other problems goes out the window

Thanks,

vuz

 

[old.Roundie]

/me pads Vuz and the rest of the admins.. VERY nice work.. This will be great!

 

[old.[SCW]Fonz]

You should have bolded and change the colour on the playing on a particular night stuff and the servers thing

I agree with most of the points above This season has not been a bed of roses for the admins or the players. I have seen this from both sides of the fence, in a clan that plays in the league and being a ref.

RAH lets hope season 6 rocks cause season 5 has lost a lot of BWTFCL magic.

 

[old.Wriggly40]

One question. What happens to div 4 clans? Will they be offered to stay on & join div 3 a/b or will they be dropped totally?

What i mean is.. will the (like it stated at the start of the season) top 6 in the div 4 playoffs go into div3? Or will they be dropped!

 

[vuz]

the clans that go into season 6 will be the 'best' clans in the sense of the word best referring to whether we beleive they will compete well and not drop from the league mid season. Clans that are in season 5 and have been around the longest will get the first places, and any clan whose been in more than one past season of BWTFCL is almost certainly going to be offered a place. After that it will not be judged on skill but how good clans are at arranging and playing their games (while I know that arrnaging won't be such a problem in season 6 it shows that they can organise stuff and are are thus more likely not to quit or split).

In theory we are just as likely to offer a division 4 clan a place as any division 1 clan - the only advantage div 1 clans have is the fact they have (on the whole) been around longer in order to reach their current standard

 

[1Jesta]

I personally cant wait, the idea of a league run very similar to the old wp league structure with "fun" tournaments run alongside will offer something new and mebbe inject a bit of refreshed love of the game back into it.
Having played a few murderball games and a fair few 4v4v4v4 tournaments in the past few weeks , it certainly has done that for me.
Anyhoo /me packs bags and comp up for i9, see you there

 

[old.eH_SimoN]

Damnit this sounds class.
Always thought "hmm" about the playoff idea. And while im not too keen on playing Wednesdays or Thursdays i think its fair enough.

And 3/1/0 points....Ownage.

 

[old.Wriggly40]

Yeah.. i find the times for the matches very restrictive. Most of my clan either work or are busy in the weekdays & therefore can only play on the weekends!!!

Which leaves us hoping (if we do get chosen) to play on saturdays.

I would prefer if the dates for the matches were chosen by the clans, and since the clans are supposed to be "more professional" then it should be easy to set up times.

This is our first season & I have not had any major probs with setting up times (apart from one match).

plz keep the current clan (dates) match system in place!!

*beg beg*

 

[vuz]

Hmm, well clans arranging their own fixtures leads to the following problems:
- Clans can't arrange games problems
- Clans forget to put it on site
- Referees don't see games
- Games don't get referees
- Games don't get servers
- Servers are all in use 1 day and empty the next

There are way too many site problems which are partially down ot the site and partially down to clans just not taking the time out to use it.

Also the current system means that servers are being used v unefficiently which isn't fair on BarrysWorld.

-> I think this is one of the points that we will certainly use, there are too many advantages, its a shame that for a few clans like your own this will be a problem but I think its more important to have a better league than current system.

HOWEVER: when signing up to a league using the BW system you state which day you prefer to play on, we can see which divisions have the most clans wanting to play on particular days and structure accordingly (although its possible everyone'll put down sunday which would makes the results useless..)

 

[old.k70]

Sounds nice, looks like the BWTFCL is getting the best european league. Shame that the connections of the BW host to some foreign countries got worse and we can't participate

GL & HF =)

 

[old.[SCW]Fonz]

Still think you should do the -3 points for not turning up

That was a class idea.

 

[old.Coss]

Looks very nice.
I like the idea of the fixed fixture structure, but i dont think the every match at 8pm thing will work, mebbe u should let the clans arrange the time.

 

[old.Carwash]

Sounds good on the whole. The only thing i have a prob with is this::

So, instead we will go to a fixed fixture structure, whereby we arrange the fixtures:
- Premiership use the servers on Sundays.
- Division 1 use the servers on Wednesdays.
- Division 2a use the servers on Mondays.
- Division 2b use the servers on Thursdays.
- Division 3a use the servers on Tuesdays.
- Division 3b use the servers on Saturdays.

Fair enough, ur wantin to sort it out so ppl play there matches etc. But how many ppl want to play on sats? I'd rather go out saturday night than stay in and play TFC, as would most ppl in my clan / other clans.

But then u go on to say::

Don't wanna play on the allocated night!
Same as above, if you can't do it the message will be - don't join. Div 2/Div 3 standard clans will be able to say what night they would prefer to play on from the two on offer.

Does this mean that if ur in Div2 u can play on Mon OR Thurs? and Div3 Tues OR Sat?

I was considering of pulling my clan (Max8) out of BWTFCL next season, but it's sounding like it's gonna be a lot better next season. Just the nights of play thats got me concerned atm.

[-M8-]Carwash

 

[old.TGC Snow]

sounds good but i think you should have sunday set aside for one of the lower divisions as they tend to have more problems playing midweek

prem clans can play on saturday none of their players have lives

 

[old.Quist]

The idea as a whole sounds good but there are a few things a like to comment on.

Setting a special weekday for each division will only give you more cancelled games and according to your rules more clans leaving the league. I suggest that you devide up the days among the division so each division have at least two or three days for playing their matches on.

Once upon a time the BW-server were looked upon as the best servers in Europe and almost everyone pinged good to them. That isn't the case anymore and loads ppl have unexplanable high ping to them and ploss. My clan VABQ have played all our wars this season on other UK-servers that we have managed to dig out from somewhere. When you enforce a rule that all matches need to be played on BW-servers you really need to look into your ISP because what they deliver today isn't good.

Then I have a question: If one takes part in the "serious" league, do one have to participate in this so called FA-cup? Because the time that is set for those matches might be good for uk-clans. But think of your foreign clans that are 1 and in some cases 2 hours ahead of gmt. This means we have to start wars at 10.30 PM resp 11.30 PM local time. That is too late for my clan and me.

I understand that you have decided on these changes to make the league more enjoyable and easier to handle and in genreal it sounds very good but I hope you can stretch some of your stated rules to make it easier for "euro"- clans to participate.

Cheers Quiz!

 

[old.Roundie]

Qiuz: Name of the league is Barrysworld TFC league.. They sponsor all of it.. Therefore they also have some say in what to do.. It is as simple as that. Playing games on other english server could in the end result in BW removing their support for the league and the community. Sure the new host is'nt as good as the old one, but atm noone can do anything about it.. if you are'nt gonna follow the rules then play in another league.. yea it sounds hard.. but when BW support at league as much as they do in this case it is'nt fair to go and sh*t on them by playing on server from a competing firm.

 

[old.[748]ash]

The only thing I can see as being a bit dodgy is the forced times that we'd have to play matches. Forcing the date is good, but for multi-country clans (like ours) and/or clans who have mostly an older membership who work for a living (like ours) it isn't always easy to make an 8pm start.

More leeway for that part perhaps?

Other than that I am very pleased with all the new features. It should give the whole thing a perhaps needed boost.

Nice one.

 

[old.Quist]

Roundie:
I am not saying that Bwtfcl are wrong in forcing everyone to play their games on BW-servers but if BW doesn't do anything about their routing and isp the league will loose lots of clans including mine. I don't know if BW knows what ppl think of their servers today but I haven't heard one positive thing said about them after the summer.

You don't need to sound hard because ping is the only issue here really. Do you think its fun playing TFC with high ping and some loss and ploss added to that ? Any normal player will say no and that's just what my clan have been doing this season and what will stop us from entering the league next year if the serversituation remains.

Cheers

 

[old.Roundie]

I agree with ouy most of the way Quiz, but in the end we all have to adapt to the surroundings and rules, not work around them coz they dont fit us.. if the shirt dont fit, dont wear it

 

[old.Quist]

I am 198 cm long so my first criteria when it comes to shirts is if they have my size and then if it looks and feels good. My point with all this is that maybe the designers are in for a tough period selling their products.

 

[old.[748]ash]

Basically it's up to Barrysworld and who they want to reach. If they are happy promoting their product in the UK exclusively then there's not alot can be done.

Although it's not only players out of the UK who are experiencing problems with the new servers :/

It would be bad if we lost the non-UK clans due to ping problems.

 

[vuz]

ok, time for a quick round up of posts since my last reply:

I like the idea of the fixed fixture structure, but i dont think the every match at 8pm thing will work, mebbe u should let the clans arrange the time.

The only thing I can see as being a bit dodgy is the forced times that we'd have to play matches. Forcing the date is good, but for multi-country clans (like ours) and/or clans who have mostly an older membership who work for a living (like ours) it isn't always easy to make an 8pm start.

Well basically we need to have a set time, 8pm is perhaps too early or too late so perhaps there is a better time - however if we change the time it does affect other events such as the 'serious tournament' and it can make the server use inefficient. It also means that sorting out referees well in advance is a pain up the backside as compared to the hugely simple set time, and it requires site coding and more. The second clans have to arrange the time there can be problems about what time the game was supposed to be played and clans/referees not turning up/games not starting on time etc....

Fair enough, ur wantin to sort it out so ppl play there matches etc. But how many ppl want to play on sats? I'd rather go out saturday night than stay in and play TFC, as would most ppl in my clan / other clans.

sounds good but i think you should have sunday set aside for one of the lower divisions as they tend to have more problems playing midweek

I know that there are clans out there that like to play on saturdays, call them sad etc but they do. What needs to be done is to errase the pre arranged days per division and then allow clans to tell us which clans they can play games on.... that way we can sort out the best divisions for each night.

Does this mean that if ur in Div2 u can play on Mon OR Thurs? and Div3 Tues OR Sat?

It would mean you can request to play in one of the two groups in each of the two divisions, each group would have a set date and obviously a limit as to how many clans can actually get in.

Setting a special weekday for each division will only give you more cancelled games and according to your rules more clans leaving the league. I suggest that you devide up the days among the division so each division have at least two or three days for playing their matches on.

I think this is... wrong - you will get less cancelled games because cancelling games is not an option and both clans will be well aware of the fixture time and date well in advance. Cancelling will not be an option, you will get -1 points for not turning up if you can't get a team. The only time games will be cancelled/postponed is when there are server problems or other problems not caused by clan problems.

Dividing up the days between divisions is not an option, that means that everyone wants to play on sunday or whatever and it may as well be back as it is today - it is a heck of a lot easier to tell a clan they play all matches on a specific day rather than juggling it around each week - better for everyone : trust me

My clan VABQ have played all our wars this season on other UK-servers that we have managed to dig out from somewhere. When you enforce a rule that all matches need to be played on BW-servers you really need to look into your ISP because what they deliver today isn't good.

I am not saying that Bwtfcl are wrong in forcing everyone to play their games on BW-servers but if BW doesn't do anything about their routing and isp the league will loose lots of clans including mine. I don't know if BW knows what ppl think of their servers today but I haven't heard one positive thing said about them after the summer.

Basically it's up to Barrysworld and who they want to reach. If they are happy promoting their product in the UK exclusively then there's not alot can be done.

Although it's not only players out of the UK who are experiencing problems with the new servers :/

It would be bad if we lost the non-UK clans due to ping problems

I am as upset as everyone else at the poor routing to BW atm from a lot of ISPs and european countries, this is down to other companie's routing and unfortunately other than nagging other companies to sort it there is nothing that BW can do. Hopefully the new deal with BT will give them much better routing, we will wait and see.

Obviously it is the BWTFCL and I am still 100% sure its better we stick with BW rather than desert them and get clans to sort their own servers, the actual hardware at BW is fantastic (ie. not like Jolt whereby servers are unplayable with more than 10 players in them) - just some routers need sorting.

Unfortunately I then have to say that if your clan can't currently play on BW servers then you'll have to not compete in this league until a time where it is sorted, it is a shame and I don't like losing european clans.... it will always be the case that euro clans can join but it is 100% their choice dependent on the server performance for their players.

Then I have a question: If one takes part in the "serious" league, do one have to participate in this so called FA-cup? Because the time that is set for those matches might be good for uk-clans. But think of your foreign clans that are 1 and in some cases 2 hours ahead of gmt. This means we have to start wars at 10.30 PM resp 11.30 PM local time. That is too late for my clan and me.

There will be a space in the tournament provided for them, but they could opt not to play and we would decide to do based on how many clans took this option. Hopefully only a few clans would do this and thus we can just give byes to the the other clan.


And as a final point, a lot of people seem to question the idea of set nights and times and seem convinced that due to the fact they've been used to deciding times and dates in leagues such as BWTFCL and UKTFCL that this will not work. However it has been used and tested in many many leagues (BWCSL, WPTFCL, GWTFCL) and while those leagues may not be perfect for a lot of other reasons 99% of the clans within them will agree that set dates and times are a good thing for everyone

 

[old.[K20]EUROnator]

Setting fixed dates sounds good as long as we wont end up in Fri-Sat evenings

When you set fixed time I hope it will not be set later than 8pm GMT since Finland is GMT+2 and my crew has jobs/school not to mention the fact that games *NEVER* start on time.
Yes, I know what the rules say but reality is not as sweet.

Get somekind of rule for the clans that quit in the mid tournament.
Shut em out from the next season or sumtin .

[K20]EUROnator

 

[vuz]

really has to depend on the reason they quit, but yeah tis a decent idea... on the whole we're going to have so many top quality clans on the waiting list there should never be a problem that we 'have' to accept clans to fill spaces or anything

 

[old.Oddball]

I've been asked to post by rebo ([LoG]s CL because the numpty has forgotten his passy ) regarding LoG not being invited into next season when we have played every game and very nearly earned a place in the playoffs for promotion into the prem.
Thanks .

 

[vuz]

Basically the situation is that there is no option as to keeping the league in its current size, the admins are not happy as to the poor quality service we provide to this quantity of clans. We decided to drastically reduce the number of clans and 72 was the decided number.

Following that we have to decide on how clans get in as we obviously will have more clans wanting to join than we have spaces, we believe that clans with the longest history in BWTFCL should get the spots - no clan would be happy if a new clan from the waiting list got in before them having competed in season 5, and as such clans that have competed in 2 seasons will get first chance to join prior to those who have just competed in one season.

We hope that over time all clans who want to will get the chance to compete in BWTFCL, but we just aren't willing to return to the currently sized league while we concentrate on offering a league which is both fun to run and fun to compete in.

Meanwhile there are many other leagues we will happily give you links to, the list of UK leagues isn't as large as it has been in the past but UKTFCL is still going strong (http://uktfcl.far2cool.com/), Clanbase offers a fairly steady ladder (http://www.clanbase.com/), WPTFCL should be starting up again soon (http://www.tfc-league.co.uk/) and I think the ladder is still running (http://www.tfc-ladder.co.uk/). Jolt (http://www.jolt.co.uk/) are in the middle of a 2fort tournament and will no doubt run a league sometime in the future, and there are numerous foreign leagues ...

Its a shame we can't cater for everyone but the decision was quality against quantity, and we chose quantity.

It should be noted that the list shown isn't the list of definite clans competing in the season, we simply don't know how many of those clans will wish to compete in season 6, after that clans who have competed well in season 5 will be given a chance based on:
- How friendly they are
- How likely they are to get 8 players for every game
- The standard of team we need to fill spaces left

 

[old.sabotini]

Posting on Rebo's behalf cos the forums are b0rked for him:



ViruZ the thing is I dont think you have looked at all the clans individually as you should, we are a clan that has been together for over a year and virtually never given away a DW or missed a league match in that time and as our standing in the league s5 goes, we have done well only missing out off a play off place by 3 caps in total.

There are clans in our group who havent play all there games and seem to have been offered a place for div 1. No disrespect to CD and BD as they are nice clans but they are not div 1 quality... Should they really be offered a place in div 1?

2ndly id like to point out MDB another long running successful clan who won the group hasnt been offered a place either and to me this seems ridiclous. Its like saying to all these clans that there is no point in competing and playing every match as in s6 we are going to chose who gets in just via the arbitary rule that they have played 2 seasons previous at any time.

I feel that the way this is being handled is going to piss off alot of prospective talented and sporting clans and the method of chosing clans who enter hasnt been discussed enough

 

[vuz]

Hmm

Fair enough, OK: Basically we'll have an admin meeting and look at any clans who haven't competed in BWTFCL s5 as they should have done and knock them off the list completely

Clans who have competed well in s5 as well as playing in a previous season will still be given preference.

 

[Afx]

All sounds pretty good cos i do feel the leagues got too big but i also hope that the new rules that are put in place dont scare away any of the non uk clans..The fact that you play diverse clans that you perhaps dont have much chance of playing elsewhere is a strong attraction of the bwtfcl so i hope that isnt lost.

 

[old.killeh]

i strongly believe [MDB] should be offerred a place in season 6 because:
We are over 2 years old
Never in my 2 months in the clan give away a default in any competition or friendly
We completed all our games on time and won our group, hopefully going on to win division al going well
And lastly we are very nice ppl, ask anyone thats played us or just take ur game with us vuz, or maybe thats a bad example