SPAM random annoying things

[DaGaffer]

Not really, it's costing the publishers money. Developers get paid anyway. You need top level games to get any kind of sales back to the devs

Developers get paid this time. If they keep punting out shoddy work publishers will move elsewhere. The attitude "I'll get paid anyway" is written on the headstones of failed businesses right through history.

You should consider the tribulations though, you are never promised a perfect product and by now people should know it.

Actually rules about about merchantable quality apply to games just as much as they do to toasters or frozen calamari; if you put out something that doesn't actually work, customers have the right to get their money back.

Especially since we're talking about unreasonable expectations.

How is "it should fucking work" an unreasonable expectation?

Just to clarify on your original post; a company releases a game buggy because they have to, not because they want to and if they spend more money in the next 6 months to fix those bugs then it's a -good- thing. They can't turn into money/extra workers to "fix what should've been fixed" because they -can't-.

Then they need to get better developers and they need to factor in support into their business model. The idea that you have to put something crap out and the customer can just live with it is ludicrous, and the games industry only gets away with that shit because of the historic tolerance of its audience, not because its the right way to do business. This is an area where gaming still shows its immaturity as an industry. Unfortunately, the audience for games is no longer fellow programmers loading up Jet-Set Willy on tape; its 30-something adults who don't have the time to deal with bullshit excuses and don't give a flying fuck about the business models, any more than they give a fuck about Toyota's supply-chain problems if their Prius sets on fire, they just want what they paid for to work.

 

[Raven]

A fair amount of the blame can be levelled at publishers though, what with unreasonable deadlines and such.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If there's a game that doesn't work, then yes you have a point(as does Scouse), but how often is that the case?

More often then not the complaints aren't about a product not working, it's about not working perfectly.

Then they need to get better developers and they need to factor in support into their business model.

People work with the money they got. They can't just "hire better developers", or add extra QA.

If you want a 100% bugfree game 100% of the time, you'll be waiting for games a year longer at double the price. I'm guessing that would be fine?

On an added note; every developer out there -wants- you to have the best product possible and games being released buggy as f*ck bother them more then the players each time.

 

[old.Tohtori]

A fair amount of the blame can be levelled at publishers though, what with unreasonable deadlines and such.

I'd love to make a 100% bugfree game with all bells and whistles that would cater to all players around the world and that would cure aids if you played it, but i don't have millions, i need a publisher, when that money runs out i have two choices;

A: Release the game as is, what was humanly possible to do (and some, some projects i've worked a month straight with no days in between) and hope that the entertainment outweighs the bugs(which are always there).
B: Don't release due to not being happy with the product(you never are), get funding cut, lose my job and live in a box WHILE the publisher -still- launches the product.

When someone pays for your bills, you have no choice in the matter.

 

[DaGaffer]

If there's a game that doesn't work, then yes you have a point(as does Scouse), but how often is that the case?

Well, given the day Scouse posted, he was referencing the Sim City debacle, and yes, it didn't work. Although to be fair, it looks like its more a publisher than developer issue in that case.

More often then not the complaints aren't about a product not working, it's about not working perfectly.

No, I don't think so. Gamers cut publishers some slack, and they cut developers a lot of slack (although this is starting to change). Yes you always get the whiners on forums who complain about absolutely everything, but the fact is, publishers do foist a lot of really badly QA'd stuff onto players; not so much on console (although it happens), but on PC there's a really bad attitude that effectively regards released games as an extended beta.

People work with the money they got. They can't just "hire better developers", or add extra QA.

If you want a 100% bugfree game 100% of the time, you'll be waiting for games a year longer at double the price. I'm guessing that would be fine?

Well, actually yes, they can hire better developers. And they can add extra QA. Its just most of the time they don't want to. I don't agree that a game would be double the price, but yes, it might be a longer leadtime. (and QA gets outsourced to cheaper countries all the time)

On an added note; every developer out there -wants- you to have the best product possible and games being released buggy as f*ck bother them more then the players each time.

Once again, customers don't really give a fuck that you feel their pain. They'd be more impressed if developers stood up to publishers rather than constantly playing the victim; I for one have heard the pity the poor developer spiel rather too often down the years.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, given the day Scouse posted, he was referencing the Sim City debacle, and yes, it didn't work. Although to be fair, it looks like its more a publisher than developer issue in that case.

No, I don't think so. Gamers cut publishers some slack, and they cut developers a lot of slack (although this is starting to change). Yes you always get the whiners on forums who complain about absolutely everything, but the fact is, publishers do foist a lot of really badly QA'd stuff onto players; not so much on console (although it happens), but on PC there's a really bad attitude that effectively regards released games as an extended beta.

My annoyance wasn't with the whole of community, just the unreasonable whining. Just to clear that, i know that mostly gamers aren't that annoyed with minor issues and whining about things that are there for a reason(like launchday dlc).

Well, actually yes, they can hire better developers. And they can add extra QA. Its just most of the time they don't want to. I don't agree that a game would be double the price, but yes, it might be a longer leadtime. (and QA gets outsourced to cheaper countries all the time)

Once again, customers don't really give a fuck that you feel their pain. They'd be more impressed if developers stood up to publishers rather than constantly playing the victim; I for one have heard the pity the poor developer spiel rather too often down the years.

On the first; it's down to money again. They -can't- hire better people and they can't hire more qa since the budget is what it is. It's not about not wanting a 25 member qa team to test out one shotgun, its about not being able to afford it.

On the second, the "spiell" is true 9 out of 10 times. Ridicilous demands, changes to the core game mid-production, deadlines that aren't possible without 16 hour days for people(which ofcourse is done with an 8 hour pay) and so on and so forth.

People don't have to believe the spiels, but that doesn't make them any less true.

And yeah, customer don't really give a f*ck about anything else except what they get...so what makes (edit: those) players think they earn any respect back?

 

[DaGaffer]

People don't have to believe the spiels, but that doesn't make them any less true.

Who says people don't believe them? The woes of the developer may be entirely true, but the customer shouldn't have to care. All that should be invisible to the customer.

And yeah, customer don't really give a f*ck about anything else except what they get...so what makes players think they earn any respect back?

Who gives a fuck about the respect of developers? You're there to provide a service and you're paid for that. If you're not being paid enough, that's your problem. Look, I do actually understand your issues, and I actually share lots of the same problems (I'm trying to wrestle a store focused business into an e-commerce environment and its incredibly difficult to do with the budget we have), but I recognise that I can't simply say to a customer "sorry we don't sell x product, that's a concession and we can't get a stock feed etc. etc." because the customer neither understands or gives a flying fuck, they just want to order their products in the channel of their choosing, so its my job to go back to the business and either work around the problem or fight for the resource to do it right (usually a little from column a, a little from column b). Sometimes, you're right, the money simply isn't there, but that doesn't mean I have the right to the customer's sympathy. And if the business ultimately fails because its not offering the service customers expect, then its the businesses fault.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah i get that, there's no right either way, but it can still be a random annoyance. It was mostly venting a bit of frustration(to lack a better term).

On the reply to Scouse, which i could've written with more thought(my bad for sure), i always try and explain how the gamedev world works so that people get a better view and perhaps are more lenient.

Though i have to say, sometimes the customer isn't right and that comes up many times when talking about games. Sometimes devs listen way too much to players.

 

[Ormorof]

i must admit its been a long time since i hit a game-stopping bug in a major release

see it in MMOs more i think when some questline doesnt trigger for example

Only recent one i can think of is in Mass Effect 3 DLC Leviathan where there is a ladder that can only be used in 800x600 resolution (so you have to change resolution, climb down then switch back) which is a bit odd but i guess its to do with some trigger point rendering in wrong place on some settings

they dont really have that problem on consoles because games always are played on same settings

 

[DaGaffer]

Every game-related show-stopper I've ever had has been DRM-related. There have been bugs that annoyed the fuck out of me, and more importantly, exploits in multi-player games that made the game unplayable once the tards discovered them, but its only DRM that's actually stopped me from getting the game to work.

 

[Cadelin]

On a business trip. At 6"1 I am above average height but hardly tall. While there is enough leg room the head rest on the seat is digging into my back and doesn't even get up to my neck.

Arrived at hotel and practically fall in the toilet because it is designed for someone with a square kilometer arse.

Why is the world seemingly designed for short fat people?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Why is the world seemingly designed for short fat people?

Nothing seemingly about it, you know the dwarves are behind it, pulling the strings, gathering the diamonds, digging too deep.

I dare anyone to go out tomorrow and see the world from the eyes of a dwarf masterplan...it makes sense....

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Why is the world seemingly designed for short fat people?

Have you never seen a builder?

 

[Cadelin]

Have you never seen a builder?

Not in business class!

 

[Bigmac]

Noisy neighbours who shout in their own language then set their house alarm off at 12:30 am and not turn the bastard off. Wake the whole street up cunts.

 

[Ormorof]

Gave girlfriend extra attention on International Womens day

hinted today is Steak and Blowjob day, she replies "that's not a real day!"

gawd dammit

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Hinted? You're pretty new. You need to state the requirement for an all out swap BEFORE Women's day.

 

[CorNokZ]

First they get to vote and now they have a day!?

 

[Gwadien]

Noisy neighbours who shout in their own language then set their house alarm off at 12:30 am and not turn the bastard off. Wake the whole street up cunts.

IF THEY SPOKE THE NATIVE TONGUE IT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE WOULDN'T IT?

BNP!

 

[caLLous]

Something something offer to mow their lawn.

 

[Cerb]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Gwadien]

Something something offer to mow their lawn.

Should be a UN peacekeeping technique tbh.

Al-Assad, we'll cut your lawn mate, if you stop killing these guys man, ffs.

 

[old.Tohtori]

People who just -have- to find anything negative about stuff you say(or somehow piss on things otherwise). As an example; "I sometimes wish i lived in the 50s, things were a lot cooler then" and then some woman rains all over it by reminding how awful it was for women.

Tits on a merry-go-round every damn thing doesn't have to be taken into consideration in every damn thing.

 

[rynnor]

The dog rolling in fox shit - it has a very weird chemical smell...

 

[Raven]

Takeaways that deliver 2x pizza as standard when you order 1.

Wife is at her mums for the night and I couldn't be arsed to cook, so I ordered a burger and chips along with a pizza to pick at later and maybe have a bit for breakfast and they deliver two of the fuckers. Apparently they always do it. I can't eat two and will most probably bin most if not all of the free one.

After watching a bit of comic relief last night it makes you think how much we waste.

 

[Raven]

porn torrents that lose seeders at 99.something %

 

[Overdriven]

You really download porn? =/ How 90s of you.

 

[Raven]

I have shit internet due to living in the sticks so not that great for streaming.

But I can see fields of cows and sheep from my window so up yours townies!

 

[TdC]

I can't eat two

you can't eat two pizzas in a day and a half? is this your coming out thread?

 

[Raven]

Hard coded Chinese sub titles.