Ids

[PR.]

Originally posted by Gumbo
I do wonder if Portillo will end up being dragged reluctantly into a second ballot by his friends, out of a sense of duty to his party, type thing.

But like you say it has been very quiet regarding him in all this, maybe a little too quiet.....

I dunno he is on "This Week" a BBC politics program as a commentator and he was asked lots of times if he would run for the job and he said no and that matters of his personal life put him out of favour with many of the main tory figures (Him being homosexual). Even the BBC said that IDS had brought on a revolution in the party by having more Women/Blacks/Gays into the party.

The problem I see is that while the Labour party are a group of people trying to run a country the Torys are a gentlemens club; outdated and full of old stuffers with archaic views

 

[dysfunction]

Thank goodness for that.

I'm glad the twins Ian & Duncan Smith have finally been given the boot.

Although there really isnt anyone in the Conserv party that will be any better.

 

[Will]

Do people still see the Tories as a serious opposition party? I'm expecting the Lib Dems to become the second party after the next general election. People want to show Labour that they don't approve of various things, but they don't want the Tories back in.

 

[xane]

What you are seeing is a classic "repolarisation", one of the reasons why I am so much against party politics because of the huge and unnecessary upheavals it brings.

It really bugs me that people complain that Labour and Conservative are so much alike now, that's the whole point of politics, to establish a middle ground.

Labour chucked out all its old policies; Keynesian economics, Unions, National Institutions, etc, simply because they've been tried and tested and failed in the past, it would be madness to propose those ideas in today's society.

Conservatives have fought to distance themselves from the Churchillian and Enoch Powell attitudes of pre-war British Empire thinking, and the more recent Americanized monetarist Thatcherite economics of the 1980s.

In truth both parties have slid towards the middle, not because of some great conspiracy but because voters have long memories.

It's going to take one or more parties to defragment and repolarise their thinking, we already saw Labour explode into its Moderate and Militant halves, once the 1980s Kinnock era had finished only the Moderates were electable and got transformed into Tony's "New Labour" party. The Militants have been sidelined and now partake in "activist" politics outside the mainstream sphere.

We are now seeing the Conservatives rapidly disintegrate into, I can only guess, a Pro- and Anti- Europe camp. I suspect what will eventually happen is most Pro-Europeans will go to the Liberals and the remaining Conservatives will become the Euroskeptic party.

 

[Wij]

I can't see the Lib Dems gaining many more votes. People don't actually know anything about their policies and while they're happy to have them as councillors most would balk at the idea of them being in government.

 

[doh_boy]

Originally posted by Wij
I can't see the Lib Dems gaining many more votes. People don't actually know anything about their policies and while they're happy to have them as councillors most would balk at the idea of them being in government.

]
I was always under the impression that they had 7 out of 10 good policies and 3 complete mad ones. I still vote for them though

 

[xane]

The whole Europe debate has sunk a little under the parapet, but I am confident it will resurface, especially once the new Conservative leader starts settling in, it is essentially going to be the new "difference" between Left and Right Wing.

If the Conservatives do split on european lines, and the Tories effectively become the Anti-Europe party, then they'll certainly attract more votes, if only because there'll be a real difference between the parties again.

The Liberals wont become the Pro-Europe party however, I rather think the Labour will, once the Conservatives adjust. The only reason the Liberals are riding high is because of the Conservative party difficulties, in the same way they did when Labour was in deep doo-doo during the 80s (even though they were split between Liberal and SDLP).

The 1970s and 1980s were all about economic strategy, which marked the central policy difference between Left and Right, now its going to be about "sovereignty" (for want of a better word). If you think about it, Right Wing thinking is traditionally nationalist and so inclined to preserve sovereignty, wereas Left Wingers are all for the socialist utopia of all nations, or some shit like that.

 

[Wij]

The Lib Dems are the most pro-EU party in the UK (according to the papers ). At the end of the day the EU is still unpopular in this country. People will vote for Lib Dems while it's a protest but if they think they might get in they'll run away.

The Tories will be the main opposition party again soon.

They won't be in government soon though.

 

[SoWat]

Problem is, a lot of people in the UK think of Europeans as those people they beat up on away matches. They have no idea of life outside of their own council estate.

Yeah... I'm feeling narky today

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Wij
At the end of the day the EU is still unpopular in this country.

This is one of those straw-poll statements, rather like the Gulf War and Environmental issues.

Whilst I'd agree that these ideas are not popular, I don't think its a case of more than 50% against. The problem is most of these issues bring out the loudmouths who make themselves sound bigger than they really are.

Anyone involved in non-investment business is going to be pro-Europe, they are the people mainly backing the Labour party and Tony knows it, so that's where he'll be heading at the end of the day.

Yes, a big majority of people will be against closer european ties, but they'll still vote for Tony even when (or if) he declares to "go in", because the real truth is a vast majority could not give a damn beyond some pathetic patriotic thoughts. Labour only need to promise/lie that Brenda will still be on the banknotes and everyone will say "oh, that's alright then".