Games Guild Wars 2

[Keitanz]

This is not how I experienced the WvW. If you compare it to a DAoC zerg then it is pretty much the same. Sames goes for encountering small group, tactics needs to be involved and the dynamic fighting requires even more skills by the player itself! Smashing all you're buttong without thinking it over might get you killed. Play smart or you wont survive

You mean smash your buttons faster than your opponent right?

 

[Chosen]

You mean smash your buttons faster than your opponent right?

I can't talk about the other classes, but when playing as a mesmer it was important to know when to use you're different buttons, else you might end up getting killed pretty fast! But still a zerg fight there would not be much different from a zerg fight in DAoC.

 

[eksdee]

Playing 'smart' in this game relies on your opponents being worse than you and nothing else, though, given the complete lack of abilities to create or close gaps and the lack of healing. It's just flat out bad imo, glad people are enjoying it of course but I can't understand how anyone can enjoy PvP in this game at all. It's just so shallow.

 

[Bahumat]

Miri you tried tera? Any good?

 

[slaughtererer]

there ARE in fact gap closers and gap opening abilities , and yes there is zerging and midless button mashing but you expect that , its a beta and all people want to do is get in there , having said that , any pvper will know that thjere are times to go in and times to get out this also applies , and with the third faction in WvWvW it doesnt just end in a stand off like in warhammer because you will get arsejammed , i have seen mindless zerging and button mashing in ALL pvp games but as we all know , it is the people that use their brains and flank the enemy which benefits the most , this applies even to the hallowed DAOC , so to say its just a button mash faceroll game is to be fair a little wrong

 

[Dutch_NS]

Started on the Elementist, did pve till lvl 15 then some rvr, but that was just zerg vs zerg and my eye's started to hurt fomr the 10 mil effects on the screen. So went Battleground pvp, Elementist is kinda good and fun, but then i saw someone play the mesmer and i was like hmm interesting, so i rolled a mesmer, trying to figure out the best build and strategie, and LOL did i had a blast with it All talents for extra damage if you blow up you clones and get them up fast as possible. On inc insta pop 2 closes step back so you have 3 of them blast them up! BOEM elementist/necro insta die xD Vs tanks i just switch weapons stealth up pop clones again and blast them till they die

Or turn them into a chicken and start blasting Really had great fun on the mesmer

 

[Soazak]

Playing 'smart' in this game relies on your opponents being worse than you and nothing else, though, given the complete lack of abilities to create or close gaps and the lack of healing. It's just flat out bad imo, glad people are enjoying it of course but I can't understand how anyone can enjoy PvP in this game at all. It's just so shallow.

I know you said you played beta before, but the things you say just make me think you have not played it at all...

Without being a fanboi or anything, there are more gap closers (and ways to create gaps) in this game than any other I've ever played. Warrior for example has 4-5 different types of charge/leap. Mesmer for example has blink (same blink as wow), 2 leaps (one forward, one backwards), 2-3 differnet invisibility spells etc. Same with Elementalist, didn't play much of that though as it's not my idea of a fun caster.

Also healing, while there are very few direct heals, there are tons of ways to keep yourself alive with periodic healing and damage mitigation, sometimes there is actually too much defense (example warrior specced so that all the shouts heal, means they pretty much permanently have heals running).


While I don't enjoy the WvW that much (it is a lot of zerging, and the smallman is just smallman rather than set 5man groups so you're either steamrolling duos or getting overrun by 10mans etc) the structured PvP is pretty good, due to the different mechanics from other games. There are some big (imo) flaws but overall I think it has a lot of potential to appeal to both the 'WoW type' casual gamer and PvPers alike.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

The cheapest I see it atm is £40, which is the same price as what SWTOR was at release..... while that's good I'm still not sure about this game..

Where did you see that Kei?

 

[Keitanz]

http://www.sendit.com/games/platfor...8_71f6b600cfc0792dfad4336c0cdd930f&affil=awin £38 sendit

http://www.game.co.uk/en/guild-wars-2-71919 (£35, but it's GAME so.. maybe a bit risky?)

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Cheers. Game is indeed a bit risky ^^

 

[slaughtererer]

aye risky indeed , but i HAVE heard that game have a big financial backer now so hopefully not too much of a risk now

 

[eksdee]

I know you said you played beta before, but the things you say just make me think you have not played it at all...

Without being a fanboi or anything, there are more gap closers (and ways to create gaps) in this game than any other I've ever played. Warrior for example has 4-5 different types of charge/leap. Mesmer for example has blink (same blink as wow), 2 leaps (one forward, one backwards), 2-3 differnet invisibility spells etc. Same with Elementalist, didn't play much of that though as it's not my idea of a fun caster.

Also healing, while there are very few direct heals, there are tons of ways to keep yourself alive with periodic healing and damage mitigation, sometimes there is actually too much defense (example warrior specced so that all the shouts heal, means they pretty much permanently have heals running).


While I don't enjoy the WvW that much (it is a lot of zerging, and the smallman is just smallman rather than set 5man groups so you're either steamrolling duos or getting overrun by 10mans etc) the structured PvP is pretty good, due to the different mechanics from other games. There are some big (imo) flaws but overall I think it has a lot of potential to appeal to both the 'WoW type' casual gamer and PvPers alike.

I played it a tonne, in an organised group of people who I've played with for up to and in some cases more than 10 years. Every one of us hated it. If you enjoy it, great, but honestly I'm baffled that anyone interested in PvP can enjoy this game.

WvW is just a zerg and the battlegrounds are too PvE focused. The defensive builds you mention are the exact thing I'm getting at when I talk about the problems with this game and how there is a lack of deep and meaningful teamplay-focused gameplay - the only way to survive is off your own back in too many areas. PvP just feels like what I imagine a group of solo chars would feel like in DAoC - strong individually but completely lacking in synergy, because every class is designed to do everything. However, every class does everything poorly. Boring. They removed so much and added nothing to 'standard' PvP. Add on top of that the idiotic ress/downing mechanic, what's the point of even PvP'ing?

One of the guys I play with imo summed it up best when he said that basically, when you break it down you might as well be playing whack-a-mole with those 10 or however many you get 5s cooldown abilities you get, with everyone on god mode since dying essentially has no meaning. Those things combined just make it a dull button mash that favours zerging over all else. Then you have battlegrounds where the 'battle' is running in a circle capping PvE objectives. Not PvP as I hoped for it to be in a game where they talked such a big game about making something that was going to be all about skill.

Edit: Should also add that this experience was from alpha/core test, where we had 24/7 access.

 

[Chosen]

I played it a tonne, in an organised group of people who I've played with for up to and in some cases more than 10 years. Every one of us hated it. If you enjoy it, great, but honestly I'm baffled that anyone interested in PvP can enjoy this game.

WvW is just a zerg and the battlegrounds are too PvE focused. The defensive builds you mention are the exact thing I'm getting at when I talk about the problems with this game and how there is a lack of deep and meaningful teamplay-focused gameplay - the only way to survive is off your own back in too many areas. PvP just feels like what I imagine a group of solo chars would feel like in DAoC - strong individually but completely lacking in synergy, because every class is designed to do everything. However, every class does everything poorly. Boring. They removed so much and added nothing to 'standard' PvP. Add on top of that the idiotic ress/downing mechanic, what's the point of even PvP'ing?

One of the guys I play with imo summed it up best when he said that basically, when you break it down you might as well be playing whack-a-mole with those 10 or however many you get 5s cooldown abilities you get, with everyone on god mode since dying essentially has no meaning. Those things combined just make it a dull button mash that favours zerging over all else. Then you have battlegrounds where the 'battle' is running in a circle capping PvE objectives. Not PvP as I hoped for it to be in a game where they talked such a big game about making something that was going to be all about skill.

Edit: Should also add that this experience was from alpha/core test, where we had 24/7 access.

This is not entirely how I see it, there is professions that is better at different kinds of playstyle. Take for example a Guardian, got lots of team heals and team shields, so when it comes to a tanky/support no other profession gets even close.

Only reason that all champs got their own kind of heal/group abilitys is to make sure that all of them got some use in a group. A mesmer for example is very good to use in getting you're team behind enemies in a keep warfare or structures in PvP using their portal abilitys.

And this game uses the environment a lot more then DAoC ever did, using the structures at the battlefield right might win you a game. You can't just spam all you're abilitys at all time, that's what I did with my Mesmer my first rounds in WvW and sPvP and I practically sucked both DPS wise and escape wise, because every time I needed a skill most of it was on CD. When I started playing smart, getting a hang of timing and learning my enemies abilitys I got a lot better at it.

Its also all the combinations that you can run with the different weapons, as you can only switch between two kinds of weaponsets in a fight. Also the game is more skillbased because of the dynamic fighting. To evade a ability you actually have to evade it, or time you're blocking. It's not like DAoC where you're blocking/evade/parry chance is based on a number giving you a % chance.

Just to mention this game is still in beta, and far from done(Not even all content is out). And I doubt the "capture the flag" scenario will be the only option available to play in sPvP. I can agree on one thing, and that is the selfheals being to strong. But if this become to much of a issue, then I am sure arenanet will fix it, seeing that they are pretty good at listening to the community.

And last but not least. in the alpha only small zones were open in the BGs so yeah zerging was a part of it, but I encountered lots of smaller groups with my friends roaming around now in the beta. Having epic battles with a pulse high as I remember it in DAoC. I also love the way you can use the siege equipment to you're advantage as a defensive mechanism in GW2, compared to DAoC.

Alphas/betas is there to try out the game, and improve it where it has to be improved.

 

[Kjel]

Guardians support? Lies and slander!

I believe there's a lot more depth to the structured pvp than pretty much all of us realise. That we couldn't form our own groups for the SPvP didn't help matters, since it's pretty hard to communicate to randoms that you need someone to take a smoke field skill so that your blast finisher can stealth the entire group, let alone the timing involved. Come live however, I expect the top teams to pull out things that border on insanely awesome whilst the rest of us remain in the 'headless chicken' level of playing. Think of the GW2 as similar to TF2: there's capture points, the vast majority of players do so to have fun, and there's a small hardcore percentage who do things that make you go "what? HOW? OMFG I've got to try that!" and some of them may even earn monies doing that.

 

[eksdee]

Only reason that all champs

Probably the most sub-conciously telling part of your post, because it's the most accurate imo - this game plays like a MOBA. Run in, dump all your abilities and out again. Wait for your cooldowns and rinse repeat - of course there are different types of engagements but broadly this is true. There's nothing wrong with that per say, but it's not what I want from an MMO.

Its also all the combinations that you can run with the different weapons, as you can only switch between two kinds of weaponsets in a fight. Also the game is more skillbased because of the dynamic fighting. To evade a ability you actually have to evade it, or time you're blocking. It's not like DAoC where you're blocking/evade/parry chance is based on a number giving you a % chance.

Doesn't locking you out of a large amount of abilities make the game LESS dynamic?

And last but not least. in the alpha only small zones were open in the BGs so yeah zerging was a part of it.

Not true, unless they're expanding or have expanded WvW beyond its original plan. What we played was confirmed by the devs to be (minus art passes) the final design for the zones at the time. I can't see them doing major changes to such things at this stage. Despite what you might think, revolutionary changes will not change based on Alpha/Beta feedback. We definitely saw some positive changes, and I commend the devs for listening on those points, but they were all very much minor issues. It would be absolutely foolish to believe a company that has paid thousands in R&D is going to change core game mechanics based on public opinion.

The fact is they're building a game for casuals and hoping they can make it deep enough at the top end to also make it an eSport. This will never work.

 

[Tilda]

eksdee, did you/your group play around with or experiement with the group combos you can do? Like Ranger casts x ability, necro does y ability which adds z effect to the rangers ability, and the warrior uses his ability, you all get a combo message and do uber damage/stun/heal w/e?

 

[Chosen]

bla bla bla

Please come up with some points instead of mindless words who backs up about nothing, no fun arguing then. Also what Tilda last wrote here also backs up the part of a team play based game, even tho we did not try out or read into most of the combinations. You played this game in a alpha stage, and I doubt it had nearly everything that even this BWE had.(And from reading you're posts you did not even play the beta.)

When it comes to WvW I am sure I read that this BWE was the first time they released the whole BG, but of course I can be wrong about that. Even tho, the BG map was huuge, and easy to find smaller groups even in the overpopulated beta.

Guardians support? Lies and slander!

When comparing a Guardians abilities to the rest of the professions, then yes. No other classes has that kind of aoe-heals, boons and shields for the rest of the team. Which kinda makes 'em the best support in the game.
The rest I agree with, the good thing is that you can own you're own PvP server making it easier for your guild to practice on different combinations before headed out to a real battle.

 

[eksdee]

Please come up with some points instead of mindless words who backs up about nothing

Have you read your own posts? Sorry that you don't like someone not fanboying the game like you, but saying my posts 'backs up about nothing' simply shows you either a) don't want to read anything negative or b) don't understand what I'm writing.

Don't insult me by claiming I'm just making stuff up. What sort of ulterior motive do you think I have for disliking the game exactly? Like you and many others I had massives hopes for this MMO, but unlike you I'm not caught up in the hype.

You played this game in a alpha stage, and I doubt it had nearly everything that even this BWE had.(And from reading you're posts you did not even play the beta.)

This just shows how clueless you really are. Why would you claim to know more about something that you have not experienced? Why would I lie? What do I have to gain?

I've chosen to give people my views of the game from which I have a unique vantage point that no one else has. I could easily lose my Alpha access just for saying that I have it, and yet instead of considering that someone who has played the game for MUCH more than two beta weekends might have a better idea about the game than you, you stick your fingers in your ears and say LALALALA HE'S LYING, DON'T LISTEN TO HIM.

Moron.

eksdee, did you/your group play around with or experiement with the group combos you can do? Like Ranger casts x ability, necro does y ability which adds z effect to the rangers ability, and the warrior uses his ability, you all get a combo message and do uber damage/stun/heal w/e?

Yes. We have our own internal Wiki for exactly this kind of research and did hours of testing of various things - the quality and depth of our testing and data we find was the reason we got invited to the Alpha. The combo abilities are cool, but I hardly found the game changing.

To be honest the most fun thing we found was actually a bug - you could summon all the Necro pets and then sacrifice them all for massive AoE damage. We smashed quite some zergs with that.

 

[Chosen]

Have you read your own posts? Sorry that you don't like someone not fanboying the game like you, but saying my posts 'backs up about nothing' simply shows you either a) don't want to read anything negative or b) don't understand what I'm writing.

Don't insult me by claiming I'm just making stuff up. What sort of ulterior motive do you think I have for disliking the game exactly? Like you and many others I had massives hopes for this MMO, but unlike you I'm not caught up in the hype.



This just shows how clueless you really are. Why would you claim to know more about something that you have not experienced? Why would I lie? What do I have to gain?

I've chosen to give people my views of the game from which I have a unique vantage point that no one else has. I could easily lose my Alpha access just for saying that I have it, and yet instead of considering that someone who has played the game for MUCH more than two beta weekends might have a better idea about the game than you, you stick your fingers in your ears and say LALALALA HE'S LYING, DON'T LISTEN TO HIM.

Moron.



Yes. We have our own internal Wiki for exactly this kind of research and did hours of testing of various things - the quality and depth of our testing and data we find was the reason we got invited to the Alpha. The combo abilities are cool, but I hardly found the game changing.

To be honest the most fun thing we found was actually a bug - you could summon all the Necro pets and then sacrifice them all for massive AoE damage. We smashed quite some zergs with that.

Eskdee you should probably read you're own posts. yes, you keep claiming the game fails at certain points but without giving any relevant info in debt of why you actually think so. Yes you have chosen to give people your view of the game, where you state to have a unique vantage point that no one else has. And you are the one that seems to have a difficulity that many others enjoyed the PvP part of the game even when you did not, and tries to say why.

No matter how long you have been in the alpha, it does not change the fact that I've still tried the game and enjoyed it, also that me and many others see the PvP at a whole different angel then you do. And yes most of us are PvPers, so it's not like we are green in that area.

We agree to disagree, but if you want to add something. Please add more specific why you think so, not spouting out nonesense.

 

[Chosen]

And just a reminder, since the game itself have gone into public beta now. You do not have to be afraid to give out information, as they have stated on their websites before the BWE started.

 

[eksdee]

About the public beta yes, not about the core test. It's completely separate.

The fact you keep claiming I don't give 'relevant information' just goes to show you don't know what you're talking about. Go back and read through the thread, if you still hold that belief then more fool you. Then again, this game is built for people like you I guess.

 

[eksdee]

Miri you tried tera? Any good?

Even worse than GW2.

 

[Chosen]

About the public beta yes, not about the core test. It's completely separate.

The fact you keep claiming I don't give 'relevant information' just goes to show you don't know what you're talking about. Go back and read through the thread, if you still hold that belief then more fool you. Then again, this game is built for people like you I guess.

"The game is just smashing buttons, with no skills whatsoever. Bad PvE objectives in the sPvP which requires no skills" - That pretty much sums up what you have said so far. Also have to say, I have never been a GW fan, as I hated the first one. So calling me a fanboy gets you nowhere, all my information is what I've personally gotten myself and from my guild in the beta. And I am trying to be objective explaining why, compared to you!

 

[eksdee]

Did you even bother to actually read what I wrote or are you just fucking stupid?

 

[Chosen]

Did you even bother to actually read what I wrote or are you just fucking stupid?

Oh, I did. But I am not sure if you did, else I wouldnt have bothered arguing with you. You obviously do not like this game, so let's just keep it at that. I am especially not interested in keeping it going on with a guy that can't keep a discussion to a mature level

 

[eksdee]

Then don't insult me by ignoring the multiple in-depth posts I took the time to write, favouring only your fanboy view of the game - which, as it goes, has nothing to do with whether or not you played GW1 since this game is unrecognisable to its predecessor.

 

[Chosen]

Then don't insult me by ignoring the multiple in-depth posts I took the time to write, favouring only your fanboy view of the game - which, as it goes, has nothing to do with whether or not you played GW1 since this game is unrecognisable to its predecessor.

Talk about beeing ignorant. Yes, I did have some hopes up for this game, even tho I hated GW1. Because I wanted to try something similar to what I found fun in DAoC. But spouting out "fanboy" because I try to explain why some of us do not see the game as a button smashing game, is just ignorance . I suppose you only do that to either try to provoke me, or that you got nothing better to say

I don't know why you got such a hard time to see why people enjoy this game, and sees it at a whole different angle then yourself. Live with it, this game will probably live for a long time, no matter how much you detest it.

|

 

[eksdee]

No, ignorance is claiming my arguments have no base when you clearly either a) haven't read my posts or b) ignore their content. Failing that, you're just so dumb you can't read properly. Wouldn't surprise me at this point.

As I've said, many times over, more power to those that enjoy it. I just don't see what there is to enjoy from a PvP perspective. It's a great PvE game, and it's a great game in general for casuals, but the actual PvP is dull and has no substance. I've explained the reasons why I feel like that over and over, maybe if you'd bothered to read them you'd understand why instead of just crying about someone saying bad things about your new toy.

 

[Chosen]

No, ignorance is claiming my arguments have no base when you clearly either a) haven't read my posts or b) ignore their content. Failing that, you're just so dumb you can't read properly. Wouldn't surprise me at this point.

As I've said, many times over, more power to those that enjoy it. I just don't see what there is to enjoy from a PvP perspective. It's a great PvE game, and it's a great game in general for casuals, but the actual PvP is dull and has no substance. I've explained the reasons why I feel like that over and over, maybe if you'd bothered to read them you'd understand why instead of just crying about someone saying bad things about your new toy.

And again with the provoking, only person you seem to provoke here is yourself. You have explained nothing, except for that you found the PvP shit with button smashing. But no real info why you though so, the info you came with basically got countered with how other people saw it. And after that you have only repeated yourself!

I am sorry but you obviously are not a person that can argue without letting you're personal feelings get out. Therefore I will end this discussion here

 

[Soazak]

eksdee, I think the problem is your posts sound like you're making it up.

Several of the things you've said in this thread sound like you haven't played it at all. For example: you've said there is little open space in WvW, this is completely false, anyone who managed to play WvW this weekend would testify that the zones are very open, more so than any other PvP game I can think of (maybe with the exception of Pre TOA UO). You've said there is a lack of healing, and not enough ways to create/close gaps, which again is so far from the truth it's quite baffling..again there are more than most other games, the support in this game while fundamentaly different, takes just as much co-ordination to keep allys alive (generally through shielding and control rather than healing). But again, classes like the guardian have several heals...

They're not even just inaccurate statements, they just seem completely uninformed. The equivalent of saying DAoC didn't have group v group PvP, or WoW didn't have top end PvE..

You've also posted just on 7th March (i.e. way after Alpha testing had finished) that you were really looking forward to giving this game a try, certain bits concerned you but your posts suggested that you would just have to wait and see for yourself once you've played it - which you said was based on leaked videos/screens that you had seen. Now you're saying you played in the Alpha testing - again things just don't add up.

You've also said PvP comes down to button mashing, which if you had played in sPvP you would know that's pretty much the fastest way to die, akin to blowing timed RAs on inc in 8v8, or spamming Garrote on an assassin, the abilities each have cooldowns ranging from a couple of seconds to 2mins+, so timing is essential, as is understanding what your opponent is doing. With the exception of one rather messed up bug with the Ranger right now, spamming will just get you killed, and while it does look spammy in the videos (due to the recyling animation on the 1 key) this isn't the reality of the game - which if you'd played it you would know..

I understand it will not be for everyone, like you said it is probably closer to a MOBA than a MMO in terms of mechanics, which is fine. I have absolutely no reason to want you to like this game, but some of the things you're saying just don't make sense. If you have played it, and disliked it, great, at least you're coming from an objective viewpoint, but it really doesn't seem that way.

It looks like it comes down to this:

Then again, this game is built for people like you I guess.

You seemed to change your tune when you posted the reddit article about some high end PvPers disliking the combat, and now are trying to suggest that you're too good for this type of game as you don't believe the skill ceiling is to your standard