cheating? you may want to read this........

[old.crashpaddy]

well me and a few other STVEF players (clanned and clanless) have noticed a few problems popping up.i've been watching the situation gradually getting worse so i personally decided to mail ravengames to put the situation to them to see if anything could be done.

don't think that i am moaning due to loosing a few games or what not but there definatly is something funny going on,alot of people have noticed it as well so i got off my ass to try and help sort it.i am just trying to sort it out before we get the same problem as Q2/3 and CS got.the last thing i personally want and i feel the rest of you dedicated EF players want is for EF to get a bad reputation.

anyway here is the mail i sent and the replies below the points.i will mark the replies from kenn with === blah blah blah ===

----- Original Message -----
From: Hoekstra, Kenn
To: 'Crashnburn@??????????????
Cc: Vee Bushaw, Annette
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: problems in the EF multiplayer comunity


1st issue. we have seen many players on the barrysworld servers being untouchable (to a certain degree) we have shot at players 3-4 times (direct hits) before they get killed and yet they shoot at us and kill us with one shot worst one was when i had 150 armour and full health and just died as soon as the photon hit me.normally a photon shot takes 70 health/armour dependant on the range of the shot. we have a feeling this could be down to some kind of cheat,maybe involving something called timenudge where the player can set his computer up so it runs faster than the server.im not sure if this is possible but there is definatly something going wrong somewhere.


===It could be a cheat. I’m not aware of anything like this, but it is certainly a possibility. I don’t know what to tell you about this…===


2. a sudden inrease in lag,i run on 56k (o.k. not the best to play on) but my ping normally runs between 150-300 in normal gameplay.and yet when we (this includes other clans as well as (paddy)) have played some clans my ping just jumps sky high.i am also match admin for the barrysworld eliteforce league and i have noticed this happen to other clans as well (when the other clan has no change),although this is very rare on the league it happens an awful lot more on the public servers.i know your ping can rocket if you are in a certain situation like a packed room or an area where there is alot of shooting.but i have seen this happen to players when they have the flag and no one is around them,thier ping skyrockets to the point of where they freeze or are just uncontrolable.is there a possiblity that someone has created a cheat to make someone/a team to have thier pings go higher than normal?


===This could be related to auto-download. If a server is running a mod or a new map and a bunch of players are trying to download it at the same time, it will cause ping spikes…especially if new players continue to try to join and need the maps first. I’m not aware of any cheat that can up someone’s ping. Virus scanners running in the background can screw up ping as well, but you probably already knew that.===


3.aimbot,i know this cheat is around as i used it myself on a empty clan server with one of my friends to see what happens with it.originally is was a quake aimbot but as EF is based on the quake3 engine it's ported over to us as well.basically it just keeps shooting direct hits the aim is perfect near enough all the time.(as soon as i tried it and knew what to look for i deleted it) you can tell when someone is using it because they fire continously and at thier own players as well.

basically are you aware of any cheats for STVEF?and are you doing anything to counter this sudden increase in "cheating"?



===Right now we’re unable to do anything about it because we’re trying to finish SOF2 and Jedi Outcast on one of the worst deadline/time crunches we’ve ever had. As such, it’s hard to do things like release source code for Heretic II and look into cheating issues in Elite Force. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the way we have to do it right now.===


i hope i have sent this to the right people.if not would you do me the favour of fowarding it


===I will forward your suggestions to the team and to Activision. I really wish I could be of more help here.===


Mark cobley

©®A$h{Paddy}


===Kenn===
Kenn Hoekstra
Project Administrator/
Director of Support Services
Raven Software Corporation
http://www.ravensoft.com/

======================================================================

well they are certainly not ruling out that there are cheats being used within EF and the comment about the autodownload is incorrect,it's not as if these are custom servers we play on.everyone has the maps on the BW publics with the exception of maybe space and geothermal.and also if it was the auto-download everyone would get lag not just one specific team/player

anyway what i would really like to know is has anyone else had some of these problems,or who are aware of certain cheats which could be ruining the game for others?if so would you either reply on here or if you don't want to make you feelings public please feel free to mail me at dr_good2002@hotmail.com and i will pass on any information i feel is justified to raven.

hopefully with a little bit of pushing we maybe able to get something like a patch to eliminate these problems or even a program like punkbuster created to help us stop EF getting a bad name.

p.s. i don't want to see people repling to the thread or mailing me saying i saw "-enter player name here-" doing this/is a cheater.i just would like to know of any instances of possible cheating without mentioning any clans/playernames

 

[[DAD]Monty73]

Originally posted by crashpaddy
1st issue. we have seen many players on the barrysworld servers being untouchable we have shot at players 3-4 times (direct hits) before they get killed and yet they shoot at us and kill us with one shot worst one was when i had 150 armour and full health and just died as soon as the photon hit me.

===Monty's Thoughts===I have see this happen as well, I am not sure if it is a cheat or not to be honest, there are allot of players our there who have played the game solidly since its release and as a result are just that good. That said I have see players who are not that good get shot an unusually high amount of times by multiple players and not die. The best thing you can do in these situations is go into spectator mode and see what’s happening in their skin, if they suddenly start dieing when you are spec'ing then they may have seen you and disabled the cheat, if there is one.===

2. a sudden increase in lag,i run on 56k (o.k. not the best to play on) but my ping normally runs between 150-300 in normal gameplay.and yet when we (this includes other clans as well as (paddy)) have played some clans my ping just jumps sky high.

===Monty's thoughts===This is just my opinion on this matter but when I was on 56K I found the same thing. That in League games my ping would rocket and sometimes be unplayable while on public servers there could be more people in the game and it would be fine. I believe (again just my opinion) that this is caused by either or both clans using COM's like battlecom or Roger Wilco, I cannot prove this but its all I can think of. I don’t believe it is used by anyone to cause this effect it may just be a side effect of it. I am now on ISDN and have found that when playing certain clans my ping still goes a good bit higher but not so I cant play like before. Who knows.===

3.aimbot.

===Monty's thoughts=== I have looked into AIMBOTS, not for my own use but because I suspected a couple of players use them and was curious as to whether they existed for EF. They do and they come in more than one form. I have never seen one so I cannot say for sure if the following is true but this is what I read.

1. Aimbot - When a player uses this when they press a key to activate it it will snap to an enemy player and track them allowing you to be very effective with the comp rifle. The obvious signs of this is use is the player is very mechanical in their movements. Again if you can spectate in their skin it will be very obvious when their scope snaps to a player and takes him out. Also the aimbot I read about would snap to players that were on the other side of a wall so they player with the bot would be tracking someone through a wall, obvious when you see then do that.

2. Autofire - This one is more difficult to spot when you are playing them. What this cheat does is fire on the target as soon as they are in front of the scope. Again very useful with the comp rifle. I cant remember how it said you could detect this one, probably going in their skin again would give you an inkling.===

This is very important....You must be 110% sure a player is cheating if you are going to name them. There are allot of excellent players out there and it is not fair to accuse them because they are the best. If you feel sure someone is cheating and you want to out them you should make sure a number of people have see the same things and all agree.

My feeling is that if they want to cheat then they are not wining fair and square so more fool them. To win with a cheat is not wining its just a lack of skill in a person with a lack of moral character. You know who you are and that you are cheating, that’s enough for me. I don’t mind being beaten by someone who is cheating because I am obviously better that them or they wouldn’t need to cheat bahahahaha

 

[old.crashpaddy]

yeah don't worry im not accusing anyone of cheating specifically but i know there are some people out there who use cheats.

as for the 56k thing monty this is happening to people i know with isdn,adsl as well.like last night i was playing geo on the publics my team mate got hold of the flag (adsl with a ping of about 30+) i went out to cover him but then lag hit to the point where i actually ended up in the lava and he lost the flag.imediatly after that happened he said did anyone else get lagged? well i know i did but no one else said anything.i personally don't use any com program if i play in a match as i do get lagged out more easily.so that is something that does makes this problem happen.

aimbot.yeah there are players out there who could snipe the com badge off you from the other side of the map,fair enough obviously practice makes perfect.but then you get some players with a high ping (which makes sniping more difficult) who get you every single time.
i have seen several instances where people have accused some players of being aimbot users (for me to spec and notice they wasn't) and only seen three people actually using it on publics but i kept it to myself.
i know of two versions myself,colour and normal,colour is the more difficult to spot because it is slightly less obvious.as for the autofire this one could be rife on the servers and we just would never find out if they was using it or not.


anyway thanks for your input monty very much appreciated

 

[old.=APA=Riven]

hi everyone , i too have recently had problems with the servers pingy fine then suddenly jump right when i get flag then i get smoked right off lol.. and lag is gone , not sure if its a cheat or what but i know it sucks lol... and i have researched the aimbot thing , had it but never used it for i didnt want to risk a.screwing up my ef , b. i'd rather learn the skill of good aim than have a cheat. So i deleted it but it does exist. hard to tell when its being used cause its bound to a key so easily turned on and off , which upon researching this aimbot has ruined counterstrike and quake3 servers for so many ppl using it. now for the ppl being shot several times. ya gotta remember alot of maps have health hypos and shield crystals scattered about , and if you practice enough with the photon you know the splash area , and if your in that area your gonna be hit. often a nicely aimed photon can do it hehe. But i have alt sniped ppl and nothing. once i nailed this guy 3 times dead on with alt snipe and didnt even phase the guy so that makes me think something is up with that cause normally 2 alt snipes and your a hologram memory lol. also when i did this yanno how ya hear the shield or something , nothing.. so if ppl do cheat so be it , every game will have ppl that do it. i agree with Monty in that if you gotta use cheats to win then you really dont have the skill to play hehe. i myself and apa dont cheat nor will we ever. And to anyone that does well and learn to play without em hehe to the rest of the kick ass ef community for playing fair and having respect to the other ppl that do the same.

peace!

 

[[DAD]Monty73]

Originally posted by crashpaddy
yeah don't worry im not accusing anyone of cheating specifically but i know there are some people out there who use cheats.

I know you weren't m8, just noted for people who may go to far

 

[greendemon]

Can't get my head round it!

All I can say is of late, I have found Elite Force a very frustrating game. A game which I used to love is now a game I can't stand for more than about 10 minutes!
Yes, there are people out there that are very good players. I however, have problems accepting that there isn't something untoward going on with certain players (I am not naming or accusing anyone btw, and I have nothing but respect for the honest top clans who I have met - you know who are guys).
I am told constantly by friends that it's simply practice - sorry but I've been playing this game since it came out, and I can't do what some people can! I have a very quick machine, and a fast connection whith all the binds and tweaks in my autoexec that the rest of them have.
I often find myself dying immediately I spawn, before I have a chance to move, also I have shot people many times, only to have them turn round, shoot me once and kill me.
I have mixed feelings on the subject. I would like to think that there are no aimbots etc. Part of me thinks that EF is not a popular game, therefore who would bother to write a cheat for it?
I really don't know, and probably will never know the answer.
All I know is I've had enough of predictable matches, and pulling my hair out - cheat or no cheat who knows?
For those of you that don't know, I've stood down as EF Division Leader for MCP, and handed it over to Baggs. I am concentrating now on our new RTCW/MOHAA Division, these I are games which won't allow flying around the screen like Superman so much, so I won't have that disadvantage.
MCP however will continue in the EF community, and occaisionally I will make a guest appearance if I am feeling suicidal.

/GD signs off.
:sleeping:

 

[old.crashpaddy]

o.k. so i have decided to take this a step further because there seems to be a big problem and many people are having it by the replies.this is mainly due to the fact that if we have lost GD who else are we going to loose?this needs to be sorted and fast!
i have just formed the Eliteforce players association (EFPA for short) with =APA=riven.basically we are in the process of building a site for it and anyhelp would be welcome.anyone can join and help wether it be information or help building the site up

anyone who wants to join,mail me dr_good2002@hotmail.com or reply on here

what we intend to do is 1.presure raven/activision for a patch/program to help eliminate these problems.

2.build up a database of known cheats (not giving the link or telling people how to get them) and explaining what they do and how to spot them

hopefully we can get enough interest to make it work

 

[old.=APA=Riven]

just to say im just helping crash lol... he's the main person for this. hehe and with all the great ef ppl helping im sure it will just encompase information about things. if anyone wants to help in this let him know. i'm gonna help as much as i can with all the stuff i got going on might not be as much as i'd like to. but still gonna try to help out the community as a whole.

peace

 

[old.Napalm]

It's a weird one this. I always put it down to 56k lag, as shots are delayed, but since getting ADSL there are still times that it seems impossible to kill certain players (even without armour, you can hit them 4/5 times and they are taking the damage). However these are players I know and trust, so I rule our cheating.

However if there are cheaters out there i'd like to see them stopped so stick me on that list Crash. Let me know if you need any help.

Napalm

 

[old.crashpaddy]

k thanks mate

i'll do somethig like a yahoo groups so i can keep in contact with everyone,update them on the site etc
as for the difficulty in killing someplayers it's definatly something to do with timenudge.

 

[old.crashpaddy]

to add to this as well i would like to try and get BW to change to the pro maps on all servers rather than the normal maps.although skywalking is a very rare thing nowdays it is still there to use and can sometimes cause bad feelings if it is used during a public game.
eliminating the option to skywalk or hide behind transporters etc would be a great way of stopping cheats.
promaps have eliminated the problem by rewriting the code for the maps and getting rid of the invisible walkway.they also run a darn sight better than the normal voy_1/2 maps which would help people with graphics cards which aren't upto scratch and who have 56k connections.

 

[old.Napalm]

Out of interest when could I get the promaps from m8?

 

[[DAD]Monty73]

You can add myself and [DAD]Nexus8 to the new EFPA

[DAD]Monty73

 

[mr.Blacky]

It is still hard for me to except and believe that there are cheats like that. Then again I cant get my script to work so that makes me a n00b on these matters

 

[old.crashpaddy]

nap :- lol buggered if i can remember where i got them from now. had them since the day they were released and i belive i got them from eliteforce.net before it went offline.im sure it will be around somewhere.if i find it i will post the link.

persons who are interested in joining E.F.P.A. (by the way it's not a clan peeps it's just a community of EF players wanting to cut out cheating) can start by visiting this link http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eliteforceplayersassociation/ and join from there (this is only being used as a temp site so i can inform people when the website/forum is up and if i get any info back from ravengames.)

it's not going to involve alot of work (hopefully) apart from us (when the site and dedicated forum are up) putting info we personally know on cheats together to inform people about them.feel free to do as much or as little research etc as you feel you want to put in

also if we get enough people interested we can then contact ravengames/activision/whoever and show them that there IS a need for a patch/program.

 

[old.crashpaddy]

Originally posted by Mr.Blackshirt
It is still hard for me to except and believe that there are cheats like that. Then again I cant get my script to work so that makes me a n00b on these matters

well unfortunatly they are about mate :-( as for your script are you sure it's a .cfg file and not just plain text (yes i did that lol)

also while im on the subject of scripts,certain things are not classified as cheats like photon jumping and trench jumping as they can be done manually. fair enough not everyone can do them even though they are simple to work out,but they are not cheats they are a part of normal gameplay.

I would also like to try and make the group the no.1 resource for newplayers to find out how to do the photon jump etc or just to get help from us more experienced players (myself not included lol) on things like map tactics,shortcuts (obviously not specific clan tactics just general stuff) etc.
maybe if we gel together more as a community we can make the EF arena a happier place to be in

 

[old.Napalm]

A rumour I heard, although i've never seen any evidence of this and know sod all about how aimbots work.

A half life aimbot will work in EF, except Geothermal as it homes in on colours and will shoot the cliffs instead lol.

Napalm

 

[old.crashpaddy]

lol...................that would be a big giveaway though,then again my aimings that crap that people must think im using it all the time on that map

 

[old.crashpaddy]

lol he visits BW3.........................

....................his team is up 6-0 3 v 3,then arrives a player (not saying the name) had a ping of 25,the map had been running for 7 minutes app. before he/she arrived,no lag up until that point,now everytime mr crash (i was actually under a different name)gets hold of the flag or another one of my team mates for that matter mr lag kicks in.the delay was for about 2-3 seconds after i/my team mates had got the flag,which meant lag kicked in approximatly as i/m TM hit the floor (2-3 seconds...........hmmmm enough time for a brain to tick and press a button).

This happened a total of 4 times to myself.twice it didn't happen till i was on my side of the map and thought huh whats up with this? no-lag? so after i captured the flag i checked back through the con and noticed mr "new player to arrive" had died a couple of kills after i had got hold of the flag,which obviously meant he was busy at the time of me getting the flag.(can't just stop shooting can you 'cos it looks too obvious)

mind you it may not of been him,but as he was one of 2/4 on his team to have his name coloured and the other guy had been in the previous match with no lag,things seemed to add up (colour in a name normally indicates them not being a n00b)

funny thing though they still ended up losing 8-2 lol

i think i'm going to start doing demos of public games i goto to try and get some evidence

 

[old.crashpaddy]

EFPA forum now up and running

please feel free to post in the public forum.then i will add you to the moderators/admin list if you are a registered member at the yahoo groups site,or if i know you well enough to know you will keep all information discussed on the forums private and not use it to benefit yourself


http://pub86.ezboard.com/befpa

 

[old.The Nullifier]

200 armour, 120 health and a medpack and you havent got a chance of killing me, I use this tactic on certain maps (spyglass)

2 players of equal skill - Broadband vs Narrowband = you loose 95% of the time. Like most people i've used 56k to play games and going near a lowpinger causes sync problems resulting in your death. High pingers will always complain about low pingers but I wouldnt watch a DVD on a 12 inch black and white tv, so why expect a good experience from online gaming with a modem that can only do 5 k/s )

Aimbot¿ you have to ask yourself if you are doing harm or good by making this thread if you are suggesting people use an aimbot - Ive never seen one, Ive never used one, Ive never been hit with 100% accuracy. Come and show me you have it and ill beleive it.

And I think Raven have the right attitude - Ef has had its day, Jedi outcast will take Ef's place very nicely and I hope they do a good job - whats the point in going back to a game like EF when the amount of players is dropping so quickly.. time to move on me thinks.

 

[old.crashpaddy]

Originally posted by The Nullifier

2 players of equal skill - Broadband vs Narrowband = you loose 95% of the time. Like most people i've used 56k to play games and going near a lowpinger causes sync problems resulting in your death. High pingers will always complain about low pingers but I wouldnt watch a DVD on a 12 inch black and white tv, so why expect a good experience from online gaming with a modem that can only do 5 k/s )

yeah well this isn't just down to me and my 56k crap modem null,this is happening to people with adsl as well!maybe you haven't come across it,maybe people dare not use it against you because of your tag or whatever i don't know but it's out there mate regardless of connection quality


Aimbot¿ you have to ask yourself if you are doing harm or good by making this thread if you are suggesting people use an aimbot - Ive never seen one, Ive never used one, Ive never been hit with 100% accuracy. Come and show me you have it and ill beleive it.

yes i do suggest "some" people are using aimbot.i know it's out there and i know where to get it from.i've seen it,and tried it and deleted it.and im not the only person to know of it's whereabouts mate

And I think Raven have the right attitude - Ef has had its day, Jedi outcast will take Ef's place very nicely and I hope they do a good job - whats the point in going back to a game like EF when the amount of players is dropping so quickly.. time to move on me thinks.

yeah that maybe the case null,but the same was said about C&C tiberian sun and yet i still play the game on uk servers and see alot of people,leagues are still running for it.
so you personally belive that when JO comes out that everyone is going to stop playing EF all together.thats not going to be the case mate and you know it not everyone can afford to keep paying out for games so theres always going to be "older" games around and theres always going to be some people playing it.


lol i personally think it's funny that i said to one of my mates "if anyone complains about me forming something like this it's going to make them look abit dodgy" hehe nah i know you don't cheat null just kidding

 

[old.The Nullifier]

yeah I do

 

[old.[X]Boom]

Bwuahahaha

also when i did this yanno how ya hear the shield or something , nothing

just so ya know, when you have a good bit of armor, a blast with any gun, won't make a noise i've been hit, and noticed this, and have hit others, so i know they have armor, so i spray them with the tetrion
anyway, as far as cheats, sorry, X started all the cheating, creating scripts/aimbots and stuff so that's why we're #1!!
j/k..lol i'd also like to see someone use this "aimbot" on me if it exists. i've seen some awesome snipers, even with high pings, but i know they don't use aimbot, but i'm sure they use screwed up settings so they can single you out easily. (I like at least decent graphics ) ...and they probably don't have much of a life :sleeping: (me included!)

don't know, don't care to investigate all this, not worth the time if ya ask me..hehe. can't wait for Jedi Knight II

(nice post to cover up our cheating huh!?)

 

[old.crashpaddy]

lol no one said X cheats.............apart from riven the other night........if i remeber correctly he said you were all a bunch of rubbish players who were scripted to hell oh and he said he could beat you with one hand tied behind his back lol

 

[old.[X]Boom]

lol
i know, i was just seeing if anyone'd believe me..i've played with riven a bit, but what scripts do we use?? well..i'm sure some of us do...but nothing absurd ...well..not me anyway..hehe. i think most everyone knows ones i use. actually i want normal settings more or less but i don't wanna start off with default and lose all my annoying binds..hehe

p.s. - bring it on one-armed boy!

 

[old.=APA=Riven]

ugh

first off i DIDNT say that. grrrr second i like all the clans so pfft... . some cheats are round and only reason for this is to let everyone know they do hehe god if i could smak you crash i so would...

 

[old.crashpaddy]

hehe yes tony you did say that,remember it was about the same time that them 10 birds came round you flat for a cup of coffee lol

as for scripts fair enough it's o.k. to have stuff like seta rates etc set up,and obviously photon jump is probably the most common scripted move,which is fair enough as it comes in handy in a tight spot when you don't have time to do it manually.

 

[old.[X]Boom]

bah!

photon jumping scripts are lame!
never have, never will use it..hehe


oh and i didn't think you said those things riven was just speaking to anyone else that's reading

 

[old.crashpaddy]

EFPA website up

even though it's only one page at the moment.the links to join the forum and group are on there

EFPA website