BWTFCL Season 4

[Mörgoth]

1) A bunnyhopping scout is faster than a BHing HW.

2) I *seriously* doubt we're going to see attacking snipers and HWs... rofl.

3) For the last time, BHing is an exploit of the game engine, it's not breaking the "rules" of the game and it's not cheating.

4) Andy if you think anyone who can bunnyhop can get a HW moving faster than a scout in a short space of ground, well I'd like to see demos. Some people are very good an bunnyhopping, the vast majority of TFC players can't do it well enough to bother using it.

5) Anyone who actually thinks bunnyhopping will ruin the game obviously doesn't consider just how hard it is to maintain the speed on the majority of maps that are played in leagues. Yes, on the few maps that have a large area of level ground between the bases BHing can mean that a soldier can get in as many attacks in a match as a medic can - these maps aren't plentiful by any means.

6) "Gliding", or refined strafe jumping, is alot easier than bunnyhopping, and over a short distance it can get you there faster. You wanna make this illegal too? Most people strafe jump even when they don't know what it is!

7) I strafe jump, wall strafe and use momentum from concs to hop past enemy defenses on maps like monkey and Well. None of these is BHing, yet they would all be alot harder and less effective with sv_airaccelerate set to 3.

8) I can't bunnyhop, not effectively enough that it's worth me using it. Skill/ping/fps, whatever the reason, I can't. Yet I want sv_airaccelerate left at 10. So ner.

 

[old.Andy]

As Vuz says, this has been argued all the over the place, I just wanted Vuz to clear up what he had decided.

With gliding and strafe jumping (i.e. still pressing w for forward motion) you don't accelerate you just maintain what speed you had from the conc or whatever.

Bhopping enables you to get up to those sort of speeds with no penalty like using up a grenade, or being a weaker class.
A bhopping scout ISN'T faster than a bhopping hwguy, thats one of the problems. Both are limited to the same ultimate maxspeed.

Why do you think there won't be attacking hwguys? Faster than a med, and obviously a lot better firepower.

As for bhopping being an exploit not a cheat, why does that matter?
Spy burrowing, moving corpses, key through door on rock2, demo quickdet were all exploits but valve still removed them.

If Vuz has decided to keep airaccelerate at 10, then I won't complain about bhopping in matches; everyone knows the rules beforehand.


[Edited by Andy on 20-04-01 at 21:00]

 

[vuz]

currently the decision certainly looks like being 10, as it is a fact that having it as 3 affects concs etc, and until Valve get their act together and sort it then its not actually cheating....

hmm, i could go on but i won't, 10 for the mo' i fink

 

[Twinner]

Map Vote?

Will there be a map vote like in Season 3?

I found this feature 1 of the redeeming features of the unlucky Season 3.
(a small detail i know but I like Democracy!)

 

[Mörgoth]

As I understand it, the topspeed of a bunnyhopper is indeed relative to the topspeed of the respective class they are playing. Take for example concing on Well and using the momentum to carry yourself forward. This is effectively bunnyhopping, since you are using the lack of air friction to hop forwards faster. According then to what you said, a scout concing in and using the momentum to hop forwards should not be able to exceed the top speed of the game, which is generally sv_maxspeed 500. Well that's not correct...

Also by what you said a scout should not be able to gain *any* speed from bunnyhopping... I don't think that's right.

The slower a class is by default the harder it is to keep your speed up since if you even slightly mistime any jump you will be moving at your default speed on the ground for "longer" than you would be when playing as a faster class.

Your comment about strafe-jumping is also incorrect, you *can* gain speed by strafeing from side to side, even when moving forward. The relative acceleration is faster than bunnyhopping which is why you can cover short distances faster when strafe-jumping rather than bunnyhopping, but BHing has a faster top speed and thus over longer distances BHing is quicker. However, the point of this is that on most TFC maps there *isn't* a long distance, that is on flat ground, for you to cover.

Furthermore, a point I forgot to make in the previous post, a BHer can't aim properly while hopping forwards. So if you think we could see deadly HW's firing as they come into the enemy base, or snipers with their rifle charged as soon as the hop wherever... lol if I see it happening, I'll come back here and say so and let you know I was completely wrong, but do you *really* think every attacker who can bunnyhop is suddenly going to ditch medic or scout or whatever and go HW. I seriously don't think so.

 

[TarX]

When does league start ?

 

[old.[GoE]HellkeepeR]

Anyone who defends bhopping is just trying to keep their advantage.

Too bad those guys have more skill than you, huh? Well, tell you what: Go practise!

With gliding and strafe jumping you don't accelerate

Strafejumping is the basics of every bhopping attempt _without_ concing. You need to get a certain speed, with strafejumping as a Soldier you're already as fast as a regular Medic. From that point on it is pretty easy to bhop as soon as you have the timing figured out.

A bhopping scout ISN'T faster than a bhopping hwguy, thats one of the problems.

Wrong again. Just saw both of 'em in action by a very skilled player, the scout is quicker and gets up to speed more easily.

 

[old.Andy]

Morgoth, I was basing what I said about the max speeds of a bhopping scout and hwguy being the same from the info on http://www.ukfortress.com/features/bunnyhop/ so it could be wrong.
I hope you're right that there won't be an influx of attacking hwguys

And to [GoE]HellkeepeR, it doesn't take that long to become reasonable at bhopping. Can you honestly say you prefer TFC with bhopping than without?
I know which I prefer, and if there was a way of disabling it without annoying conc/rocket jumpers then I'm fairly sure Valve would do so.

Valve: This is an inherited issue from the Quake engine. Fixing this isn't really something that we would want to do at this point given the sweeping changes it would make to Half-Life single player, Half-Life Deathmatch, Counter-Strike, etc.

from http://www.planetfortress.com/fort/tfc_reform/current_items.htm

 

[old.[GoE]HellkeepeR]

From the OFF-PoV it's great.

Personally I don't really care. Way back in the days as a def-player you had to adjust from people taking the lifts in well to the flag to those concing up there. That was a change too, everyone got adjusted and in went on. in 2months time, noone will remember what tfc was like without bhopping, so who cares?

 

[vuz]

he has a point

now lets never speak of this evil subject again

/me point at Tui's post