BWTFCL Season 4

[vuz]

As the end of Season 3 draws close the admin team has started to look at Season 4, we have a lot of shit up our sleaves (not literally ) and it looks likely Season 4 could be everything that was hoped from Season 3.... Season 3 was let down by BW going into liquidation, I can't see this happening a second time, and with another season's experience we know a lot of the crap which needs sorting.


The following improvements will be made for a start:
- New site: The new site is nice, a large improvement over previous seasons, Trav did a great job. However, it reached our attention quickly that we could REALLY do with a navigation bar on the right hand side as well as the left hand side, Trav had started on this, and the job has been passed onto another member of our admin team. It may not seem like much but we hope to have:
. Latest Results
. Fixtures
. BW Headlines
. FN Headlines
. Bunch of other stuff
In that navbar, which on the current navbar would be a long long long way down.

- New url: all your bwtfcl.coms are belong to us, mwah

- New automation system: Thanks goes to alpha for the current system, its great but we need more Work is nearing completion on a system which should automate everything. Many things will be the same, refs will do results etc, but it will be done through the website and pages will be updated instantly , Thanks goes to PT2rir/GreGleTurk (same bloke) for this...

- New news system, we'll be using Neville which is great, allows columns and multiple newsrooms (so general and admin), one of the big problems atm is refs don't know when games are on (we had a mailing system for this, the person who did this 'disappeared' and it never got sorted, ;(), and this (with automated site, above) should help.

- More attention to clans: currently clans are left entirely to their own devices, this season we had group admins who should have sorted out problems but since the liquidation announcement many of these 'disappeared' ;(


The following are 'possible' changes we're looking at:
- Refs don't gain rcon instantly, the current system is almost anyone can get rcon, it gets abused, this sux, obvious bad effects as lame ref gives rcon to his lame clan who post it on lame forum where lame mailing list gets hold of it... more of the TFC community have it than don't . The idea, thanks to Gimp for this, is that refs don't gain rcon instantly, every evening there are 2 admins who have the rcon and go in and changes the map and changes the rcon pwd to one chosen by the referee, at the end of the map the admin goes in again, changes map and rcon (rcon pwd resets at map change i believe). This isn't exactly efficient, the idea extends to the ref getting rcon AFTER reffing 6 games, thats a fair few hours and if the ref hasn't been a m0ng we should be able to trust that the ref isn't just after rcon to our servers....

- To wipe out whores we will be looking to get a WONid database, perhaps starting our own or hopefully by cooperating with other leagues.


Changes which will be made, but to what we don't know:
- Maps change seasonally, maps I wish to be considered (download these maps and test them!) are:
.2fort
.Well
.Rock2
.Crossover2
.Badlands
.Flagrun
.Shutdown_l
.Shutdown2
.Openfire
.Enclave
.Monkey_l
.Stowaway http://www.biggz.sprite-network.com/stowaway.zip
.Highflag http://www.clan187.net/t1k1/maps/high_flag.zip
.Gleadhraich_r http://www.digwar.com/downloads/maps/gleadhraich_r.zip
.Tempest http://www.cartwright.clara.co.uk/files/tempest_r.zip
.2Morfort_1 http://www.planetfortress.com/downloads/mirror.asp?tfmapzone/tfc/2morfort1_1
.zip
.Bases_r http://hosted.barrysworld.net/bwtfcl/maps/bases_r.zip
.Vidars http://hosted.barrysworld.net/bwtfcl/maps/vidars.zip
.2Much http://hosted.barrysworld.net/bwtfcl/maps/2much.zip
.Mulch_Trench http://hosted.barrysworld.net/bwtfcl/maps/mulch_trench.zip

All those maps are on the BWTFCL Servers, find a ref to change the map during the day and set the mp_timelimit to 60 or wotever and get testing
There are others that own, most of highlander's maps are good, please make more suggestions below.

- Rules in general
We intend to be a lot stricter in certain areas on rules, and certain rules will be modified. A few things which I wish for views upon:
.mp_timelimit : 30 or 35 (25 or 30 mins playing time)
.bunnyhopping : airaccelerate set to 3 (no bunnyhopping) or 10 (hopping a plenty )?


Things we think worked this season and could be kept
- League Layout, more attention needs to be kept on lower divisions and a better system for replacing clans/sorting out clan departures might be useful, but generally it seems to have worked well, the group size of 8 appears to be good and the playoffs adds spice to the end of season...



There are many other things which I can't think of atm, PLEASE give us thoughts on any of the above topics, thanks

 

[old.Mr.Bee]

/me looks at maplist

/me slaps ViRuZ

 

[Twinner]

I'll say a map that should be considered be4 Morgeh

Mortality

Played it yesterday with some HK peeps its nice

I like the sound of more attention to clans and more news. Hopefully the forums will be used more.

 

[old.+SA+Eliminator]

I'm very pleased that Neville will be implemented into the site, after seeing it work so well at FN. With regards to maps I think we should add highlander's 'High_gas' to the list as a potential replacment for Rock2, the old dog is showing its age

 

[old.Nico-XL]

On maps...

bases_r ?

I loved this map but it has got a f*cking bug with spies keeping their disguise while carrying the key (or maybe this was a server problem...?)

I've heard there was a "bases_r2", btw.


About HighFlag, sure.. but don't forget High_Gas, as someone already stated


About Tempest, there's a "tempest_r" version.


About Vidars, there's "vidar2", same map BUT modified to be easier to defend


And... why not removing openfire? This spammy (grenades in each bagpack!), buggy (sound-echoing pb, and no warning msg when switch is activated) map??

I hate it, buhhh......

At least, the author makes an "openfire_r" version of it! pfff...


That's it!

Nico.

 

[old.talisman]

One thing that was annoying was how we in Div 3 were largely ignored when we sent emails, icqs etc to both the div admin and yourself. These were explaining how we couldnt get in touch with opposition at knockout time, so no fixtures went ahead, so the league just stopped for us - a bit of an anti-climax really. Also will this new automated system be the same as last time? ie server and ref left as tba tba for all eternity...

 

[old.Nebauchadnezzar]

Well tbh Talisman, after the anouncement of the BW liquidation many clans took the attitude of "whats the point in playing, BW is f%$ked". And the fact that after the announcemnt that a buyer had been found, some clans and admin had already given up on the BW league and searched for pastures new. New admin will have to be vetted to make sure they are up to the job, no more muppets who dont have a clue.

BWTFCL Season 4 will be the best yet.

 

[vuz]

One thing that was annoying was how we in Div 3 were largely ignored when we sent emails, icqs etc to both the div admin and yourself.

- Emails to me weren't always completely answered, i tried to pass on, this was the same case with all divisions as I simply don't have enough time to sort out every problem atm, soz. The problem was with Div 3b, Ginga was the div admin and he just disappeared after the liquidation bit, Bovi however did a great job with Div 3a which is in great shape.


Also will this new automated system be the same as last time? ie server and ref left as tba tba for all eternity...

- Not at all, hopefully it will be at a stage where you will instantly be told which server you have and the refs will be able to add themselves to the site

 

[Mörgoth]

OMG if Mortality isn't included in next seasons maps I'll kill you all.

Seriously it f00kin 0wns. Link: http://www.basetf.digwar.com/download/maps/Generic_Mortality.zip

Yes bases_r2 is out, link: http://www.basetf.digwar.com/download/maps/bases_r2.zip

Flagrun is buggy (or are these fixed in latest patch? I dunno). Unless it's been fixed, plz don't include it.

High_flag isn't really that suitable for clan games tbh.

Vidars just sucks for clan games in it's current form.

Tempest_r2 is out. Link: http://www.digwar.com/downloads/maps/tempest_r2.zip

Other maps that could really do with being included:
Security/Security_r - http://www.digwar.com/downloads/maps/security.zip
Mortality (as above)
High Security. Currently in beta3 which has all the bugs fixed (I think). If not, it'll be finished certainly by start of new season. Link: http://freespace.morat.net/highlander/high_gas_b3.zip
Erp.. that's about it for maps.

As for timelimit, IMO 35 total is better, so 30 mins playing time.

That thing wiv refs and rcon will be a pain but it's a good idea.

 

[Mörgoth]

Oh forgot a few things. That person who commented on Openfire and spammy grens, pff, go away. OF rules, it rules far more for offense than defense. And? More fun for everyone IMO than boring 30-0 or 10-0 on 2fort and shutdown2. Same goes for mulch_trench, it's really a badly designed map but it's f00kin brilliant fun.

I really wouldn't include gleadhraich tbh. It plays average at best and has quite a few bugs. It's design quality is also a bit pants.

Finally 2morfort is great fun for public games but I dunno about it for clan games. Never played it in a clan environment tbh but I'm not sure about it.

Edit: Grr forgot something else. Back to the person's comments on OF, the fact that there is no notification of the lasers isn't a bug. Go set up some voice comms for yaself.

[Edited by Morgoth on 09-04-01 at 20:37]

 

[old.Nico-XL]

Ok...

I go away.

hf all in next BWTFCL season(s).

 

[vuz]

eh Nico?

 

[old.eH_SimoN]

How about the new teams

eH is on the waiting list, are some of the teams on the list going to be in the next season? Or will they have to wait til season 5?

 

[vuz]

we'll check up on which clans still want in, and then check which ones have been around longest/have the most chance of lasting a season

 

[Shadster]

Happy with any of the maps. As for air accel it has to be set to 3. We just played KASAP on Monkey_l and saw the effect of bunnyhopping on a clan game. The game turned into a farce to be honest with soldiers, spys and demomen bunnyhopping right into flagroom. This is not a dig at KASAP by the way who played awesomely.

Basically if this is the way TFC is heading then I dont want any part of it. Anyone who says it is good for the game clearly has no idea. To watch such heavy classes get killed in your flagroom and then be back there within 10 seconds is insane.

I really hope that people see sense and stop this before it sends TF1.5 to an early grave.

 

[old.Quist]

It's nice that you think so much on improvements to the league and the only thing I and VABQ want to point out is:
Keep the rulessite correct from the start and make sure it is quicky updated if there are any changes.

Then I have a small suggestion. Why not have a mailinglist for all the clanleaders and deputys to subscribe to, optional of course. I think important news and changes more quickly will reach all the clans then. Atleast I check my mail more often then I check the bwtfclsite :0)

Pls dont mess around with the serversettings to go around the bunnyissue. I've watched two leagues debate this, etfcl and ntfcl(nordic tfc league), and both ruled for allowing "bunny". It's here to stay as a "feature" of the game wheter we like it or not.

 

[vuz]

we're hoping to have a mailing list, which u will be signed up to when u join, with the option to remove yourself

 

[Mörgoth]

I agree, messing with air acceleration has a rather large impact on concs as I understand it. Leave it at 10 I say, either learn to deal wiv it or learn it yourself (I know that doesn't apply to def - oh well ).

Btw my ping and skill are too mongish to BH, so I'm not saying leave sv_airaccelerate set to 10 to preserve my ability to BH - coz it doesn't exist. :/

 

[Afx]

Leave aa at 10......The effect of bhopping on tfc is always wildly exagerrated(oh look people can bhop into the flagroom on *one* VERY open map..lets ban it...) and the negative effect of airacceleration at 3 is far worse,i.e the concs absolutely suck.

 

[vuz]

aye, altho I disagree with Morgoth saying that ping stops u bunnyhopping, and i also disagree that def shudn't learn it.

People complain that the off gets to their fr before their def do, the def need to be able to get into position quickly and give chase to the other teams off - shud also learn to bh

imo

 

[old.Gimp]

Air Acceleration

Hmmm, Afx obviously hasn't spent much time (if any) on sv_airaccelerate 3, as it is still possible to curve jumps and concs.
Reminds me of the TF1.5 patch where everyone was ready to quit TFC because of the impossible concs...they just didn't give it a chance and spoke bollocks about what they've experienced in 2 minutes or what other people have told them from their own 2 minutes experience.
I was on a BW server shortly after they changed to sv_airaccelerate 3; I saw about 4 people (good players, no names ] trying to bunnyhop for hours . They didn't even realise sv_airaccelerate was on 3.
I admit it does change the game, slightly, and I'm not sure whether I would like 10 or 3; but if it means removing a bug then it can only be a good thing.
The argument about bunnyhopping being a bug or not has been gone over and over and basically the only arguments for bunnyhopping people can come up with is "it makes games more exciting", then contradicted with "it makes no difference why worry about it", and "you only want it banned coz you cant do it". Which is a crock of shite coz I know many people who can do it and dont wish to take advantage of the bug (which it is).
Morgoth is the perfect example of people talking about things they don't know what they're on about:

I agree, messing with air acceleration has a rather large impact on concs as I understand it. Leave it at 10 I say, either learn to deal wiv it or learn it yourself (I know that doesn't apply to def - oh well ).

Btw my ping and skill are too mongish to BH, so I'm not saying leave sv_airaccelerate set to 10 to preserve my ability to BH - coz it doesn't exist. :/

FPS (frame rate) is the only factor that governs the ability to bunnyhop; and you're telling people to leave sv_airaccelerate alone when you don't sound very confident that you know what you're talking about.
As I said I don't know what would be better with sv_airaccelerate; but I think we need a better set of arguments for and against than what we have at present.

 

[Mörgoth]

Nah you're right, I haven't played with sv_airaccelerate set to 3, I haven't tried concing with it set to 3, I don't play defense and haven't played in any game where there was any sort of bunnyhopping going on. Nor can I bunnyhop very well at all myself, even in a LAN game. I commented on what other people have told me about concing with sv_airaccelerate set to 3. I have heard members of my clan talk about how playing defense is a farce now when you face up against BHing meds, soldiers and demos. I've used momentum from concs on Well in particular to "hop" past fd defenses. So while I may not know what I'm talking about when it comes to airacceleration values I do have an idea of how BHing affects the game, and I don't see any real need to curb people's ability to do it.

However, you clearly don't know what you're talking about when it comes to ping, clearly neither does Viruz. Good FPS is alot easier to buy, unfortunately. My apologies but when you constantly play with 250+ ping, when you constantly play with 20 ploss/choke, mebbe a little less if you stay in the respawn for a while, and a whole heck of a lot more when the grenades start flying... oo then you'll know how ping affects your ability to jump as soon as you hit the ground, and maybe then you can tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Oh and I didn't say def shouldn't learn it, only it won't help them as much, unless they have a long way to go from a respawn to their position.

 

[old.Quist]

There is a big difference in movability when sv_airaccelerate is changed to 3. Try a simple thing as concing through the windows on rock2 - very hard to adjust so you get in.

The discussion about feature or bug is already way in the past and BJ/Bhop is something that Valve didn't intend to put in the game but got there just as the conc never was intended. Valve will never remove bhop since it just isn't possible and the majority of the tfc-community likes it so why should they even bother.

Everyone just have to learn to cope with it cause "It's in the game".

 

[old.CrazyCrane]

Gimp, the only arguments against bhopping are "it destroys class balance" which it doesn't, "it wasn't meant to be there" which is completely irrelevant and not completely true, and "it's a cheat" which no-one has yet backed up with anything other than their own biased opinion. As viruz has said though the arguments have all been done to death.

One point worth making about sv_airaccelerate 3 though - it is still possible to bhop with that setting, and it's certainly possible to skim with it (which is what you see more than bhopping anyway); but it does affect concs. It doesn't affect every conc of course, but it makes some of them a lot harder or completely impossible. Is it really worth making a half-arsed attempt at stopping bhopping when it won't work but will affect other areas of the game? Our panel says:

X   X
 X X
  X
 X X
X   X

 

[vuz]

Hmm, haven't got time for a big reply, but a small point for Morgoth (with no intentions of a big argument, honest):

I am on a 56k, always have been, I use BTi almost always for connecting to games, my ping goes between 220 (BW) to 450 (o_o, any servers performing badly) and while I'm shit at it I cud bunnyhop. I do get a lot of choke, and I do lag, but that doesn't affect the fact that when I'm not lagging (if you really lag all the time you need a new connection or modem or sommin) I can (or would be able to if I wasn't a retard) bh

so thar

 

[Mörgoth]

Well, there are two things to BHing. Jumping as soon as you hit the ground and strafe-turning properly. I'm pretty wank at the latter so I can't gain much speed at all tbh, online or on a lan, but all I know is that it's alot harder for me to jump 20 times in a row online than offline. As you say, my ping/ploss/choke isn't *always* wank but it fluctuates alot and if you jump at exactly the same interval each time but have to deal with a ping that can leap from 220 to 350 in between jumps, then you'll need to be darn lucky not to jump too soon/late for the next jump.

Oh and I just played around wiv sv_airaccelerate 3 and I gotta say it does affect concing, quite a bit. You can hardly move from side to side, not to mind turning 180 degrees in mid conc.

 

[Mörgoth]

"btw you can bunnyhop on **** fps (I can do it on the 15-20 I get) its just harder. So long as your connection is OK you should be alright."

Extract of a post by Revz from http://forums.far2cool.com/topic.as...tle=Glide+jump&Forum_Title=General+Discussion

Sorry but I'm glad that I ain't totally wrong, coz I could easily have been.

 

[old.Gimp]

Bunnyhoppin'

Crazycrane:

What about the fact it breaks the rules of the game, ie. cl_speeds. Also allowing HWs and Snipers to go faster than they're supposed to be restricted to while using their weapons.

tbh I dont care either way coz I can bhop and play with sv_airaccelerate 3 (coz ive played it for more than 2 minutes before turning my computer off crying like a baby).

I'm assuming the admins will take a majority decision not the opinion of a few people who think their opinion holds more weight than others because of who they think they are.

 

[vuz]

i have to question the worthiness or entering a debate or even a vote on the topic of bunnyhopping considering this has already been done by every other league and in every other forum, any comments on other parts of the league or tfc?

 

[old.Andy]

Originally posted by ViRuZ
- Rules in general
We intend to be a lot stricter in certain areas on rules, and certain rules will be modified.bunnyhopping : airaccelerate set to 3 (no bunnyhopping) or 10 (hopping a plenty )?

I have to question the worthiness or entering a debate or even a vote on the topic of bunnyhopping considering this has already been done by every other league and in every other forum

So what decision have you made then? 3 or 10?

Anyone who defends bhopping is just trying to keep their advantage. It's blatantly against the spirit of the game for hwguys to move faster than scouts, no matter that everyone could do it if they wanted to.