BWTFCL is european.. or so we thought

[old.[VIT]Augustus]

To hammer the bloody point in 'cause it looks like previous attempts haven't worked.

When invited to the league we were a bit apprehensive if we should accept or not, because we first thought that it meant all matches to be played on BWTFCL which are NOT good servers for us. Then we read the rules and saw that "european servers are also allowed".

"Oh.. that settles it then, we can live with that" and so we accepted the offer.

All of a sudden lots of people are posting how we should only use BWTFCL servers 'cause "well.. it's the BW league!".

Do I have to repeat myself again, WE JOINED BECAUSE PLAYING MATCHES ON NON-BWTFCL SERVERS WAS PERMITTED BY THE RULES.

ViRuZ is clearly unfit to run the league anyways, as his postings on this matter show. If you make the rules STICK BY THE RULES. Don't change them on whim or for personal reasons.

The rules state that you can play on any european server and we will stick with that.

We will of course try to get good pings for both teams on those european servers, our home servers seem to be too bad for many of the clans, and so we will find other European servers.

BUT WE READ THE RULES and we have every right to demand a map played on a non-UK server.

If you intend to bitch more about us "having to play on just BW and nothing but BW servers" then tell me, when did the rules change? Read the rules before you post your next comment.

We didn't make the rules, but we are following them. So sue us

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Augustus
VIT

 

[Atomic Rammer]

9 BWTFCL Servers, provided by BarrysWorld are the only UK servers that may be used, European Servers may also be used.

This is the only rule on the issue.

My interpretation of that is in my earlier post and again below but I agree it is open to interpretation.

Having the ability to use a european server is not a right, but it is the right of either clan to say we want to use the bw servers.
If you play a european clan that also want to use a european server then that is a bonus, but you should expect that at worst you will have to play every match on the bw servers.

Hat0 posted after agreeing with this.
You are supposed to use the BW servers unless it is appropriate for a better game to be had by both clans elsewhere in europe.

It sees to me that you are the ones trying to make rules as you go along:

BUT WE READ THE RULES and we have every right to demand a map played on a non-UK server.

Really? I dont see that one anywhere. And I dont see how you can interpret rule 9 to mean that.

I do agree that the rules shouldn't be open to interpretation like they atm, but the way you are trying to interpret them is optimistic to say the least. To me they are trying to say use bw unless both want a more suitable server elsewhere in europe. Not we have a right to play a map on a euro server

If the BW rules aren't tight enuff sue them, but its just a game, do you really want them in lawyer speak?

 

[old.Ravenger]

Are you all insane?

The point of the matter is this.

We do not like playing with 170+ in ping and
some packetloss anymore than anyone else.

That is why we want to play on neutral servers where everyone is EQUAL!!! Not by definition LPB. If both teams have 170-250 in ping that is acceptable, if they both have 50-100 that is acceptable too. As long as everyone is equal. We are NOT on par with UK clans when it comes to playing on BW Servers. There, even on 56k modems UK clans have a clear ping advantage and as our connections to UK all go through the US !! We experience quite a bit of packetloss, our ping says the least about that, that is only the T1s, ADSL and such good connection talking. Our packetloss is because of the lenght of the journey our packets need to travel.

That is why we want to play on neutral servers. But if clans insist to play on BW Servers we have no choice but to consider them their home servers and MUST insist to play one map on our home server.

That makes sense. And don´t even try to convince me otherwise.

[VIT] Ravenger

 

[old.Ravenger]

If we cannot demand this, and in my opinion it is only fair, then we see no reason to continue.

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=================
VIT Ravenger
=================

 

[old.Hat0]

I would like the league to be as inclusive as possible, as I stated in my previous posts. Does it occur to anyone else that if your packets are routed through the US, to all intents and purposes you are a US clan? If I used a proxy in America and then complained about p/l and demanded we play one map on a US server it would seem a trifle silly. Given your packets have to travel from Iceland to the US and then to the UK, you must theoretically experience a simliar connection to, for example, a Mexican user. If there were a Mexican clan complaining about p/l I wouldn't even take the time to post. The reason (I beleive) the bwtfcl is european is because BW have a backbone connection and can offer reasonable pings to European clans. I ping 200ish to a bw server which I can just about live with, but I shudder to imagine what I would ping to an Icelandic server. As I stated before, every clan we have played has had a better average ping than us, with foreign clans averageing nearly 100m/s less than us on occasion. So please don't say we use bwtfcl server to exploit a ping advantage.

(Yes I am a HPW, I only play so I can write posts like this to annoy people )

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I would like it to be known that all facts are either absolute truths or tautological linguistic fallacies, and consequently the above is lies.

 

[old.SuperKitten]

Being an LPB, I actually prefere playing against LPB's, especially LPB HWGuys. So people with lower pings than me, i like.

"So why not just play with a modem then you silly moo?"

No phone line.

"So why not just fakelag all the time you silly moo?"

Find it hard to readjust my concing, and i probably have some advantage.. Somewhere

The thing is, i enjoy TFC, sometimes, but i am getting more and more annoyed at it, and basically for 3 reasons.

1. Team mates who think throwing MIRV's at anything enemy, not really caring who is around, are annoying.

2. Being shot around corners by HPB's, especially hwguys, is annoying, hence my love of LPB opponents.

3. The main door on well.

Heehee, ok i'm completely off-topic.. Fantasy football was great and i hate soccer.

------------------
SuperKitten
[A&I]Alison-Katz
SuperKitten @ Home
mara_skywalker97@hotmail.com

 

[old.[MaR]Gonzo]

Almost everyone of the UK servers are crap!

At bw servers i got min. 90 in latency when im used to have 50-60 on other europe servers, and I have only a simple cable. Our team (half on isdn, half on cable/t1) have a latency average at 140-150 on bw servers when we used to have 90-100 in average. Its a different of 50% of the latency!

So if bwtfcl want to be a european leauge plz get a network with servers from the countries the clans are from. Most of the european clans have an own server in their own country. So why dont have 1st map on the other teams server and one on own clanserver?

The only one who´s going to whine is the uk ppl who sit on crappy connections... and that´s not our fault (and not theirs fault neither).

 

[old.Ravenger]

Why are you meddling Hat0 ? I´m only talking about UK clans. If this league is european and they say it is, we are in our full rights to join it and "request" to play on a non UK server for the purposes to be fair on BOTH!! parties not just us and certainly not them!


Icelandic TFC Servers

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VIT Ravenger

 

[vuz]

grrrrrrrrr
my grrrr is purely 100% at this:

ViRuZ is clearly unfit to run the league anyways, as his postings on this matter show. If you make the rules STICK BY THE RULES. Don't change them on whim or for personal reasons.

Personal reasons, whim? Away from all neutral admin stuff etc can i just say WTF!

Also, this is a European League, European Clans are welcome (unlike for instance in the TGSLUK), and we do allow clans in Europe to use European Servers, I spent A LOT of time convincing BarrysWorld to allow this (seriously it was a matter of several 2000 word emails), because I know it is fecking stupid to have 2 scandinavian clans living 20 miles apart or wotever playing on a BW sevrer.

BUT then it isn't as simple as saying European clans should get to use their server for 1 map and BW for the other, because BW server isn't the other clans home server and thus the European clan DOES have an advantage. On another note VIT had lower pings that us on BW server, I am on 56k because we have a shitty thing in the UK called BT who promised ADSL for last april, now delayed til October or something. Cable isn't an option unless you live in a correct area in the UK- I CAN'T GET BETTER THAN A 56K WITHOUT BUYING MY OWN LINE !!!!!!

sorry, i don't mean to offend but it is very annoying reading you saying it is our own fault when i have been waiting for the last year to get a decent connection and been doing all i can, and no i can't afford T3.

On another note both Dice and DONut joined because of the BWTFCL servers performance, more than happy to play on the servers- they got low pings and this is one of a few opportunities to compete with UK, French and Scandinavian clans in one league (and Belgiun, Icelandic ETC).

The servers are not as bad as many for European clans, I know that many European clans have trouble on Games-World servers and many others, but generally BW outperforms them, and are preferable.
If BW had servers in scandinvia that would be the easy answer but afaik they don't and so that is a dead end.
Clans can use the 8th server, as an "almost" compromise, but then again it is their choice, in this case from wot i have heard BC are more than happy to do this, all thanks goes to BC for not flaming VIT etc.

Another point is that maybe VIT should be competing in America rather than Europe, I dunno the situation so i aint even gonna try to argue that point

Anyway, i am sorry VIT, i have done everything I can but I can not tell clans they must use your server for one map, just as I can't tell people they must use fakelag.

More points sure to come from this, please keep flaming out of it and to the points of wot u think BWTFCL should do about it.
We did not change any rules concerning this subject, we have changed a FEW rules, but they were voted by clans and only done in hte first 2 weeks

........

 

[old.SuperKitten]

Since when do they have rights to demand things? I thought this was a dictatorship!

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SuperKitten
[A&I]Alison-Katz
SuperKitten @ Home
mara_skywalker97@hotmail.com

 

[exxxie]

I've been playing on-line games for years, cos I'm old, and please! dont tell me a difference in ping from 50 to 100 will drastically affect your playing style. Especially with this new code crap Valve dished up for us. I can play on me crappy modem pinging 200 (on a good day) then hop in me car round to me Bro's and play equally badly on his isdn pinging 40

RA's lpb's play on some funny servers, and manage to do ok, go try some of these:

<@[RA]RingPeace> fancy taiwan?
<@[RA]RingPeace> 547 0 202.178.254.215 27015 Taiwan Unalis TFC 2fort tfc 16 of 24

or if Q3 is more your style:

[17:09] <@[RA]RingPeace> ok deeps i got one for sure
[17:09] <@[RA]RingPeace> 349 0 160.193.162.170 27960 MAD AREANA JAPAN q3dm7 free for 3 of 8
[17:09] <+Deeps> im on Hong Kong
[17:10] <+Deeps> thats in CHINA, not Japan
[17:10] <@[RA]RingPeace> its fucking closer than england

This post is merely a jest/jape/joke all people involved are fictional apart from those mentioned by name and yes! Deeps does whinge that much about his ping.

 

[old.[Do]JiM]

i just noticed a BIG problem (well maybe not that BIG )
the rules say clans can use different european servers and the rules also state that a ref NEEDS to be in the game wth rcon then its going to be a tad of a problem if the clan doesn't know the rcon for the server ISN'T IT!!!!!!!!

The only solution i can think of is we enforce a rule saying ONLY BW SERVERS. Now this will be a bugger to some of the european clans (maybe one day bwtfcl will have some european servers) but i have noticed that many euro people have farrrrrr better ping than most of the UK people and i agree with some geezer who said that its better to win it through skill than being able to afford a super fast bastardy connection. (i have 56k )

anyway i hope oneday that we will all live in peace and harmony and everyone has 0 ping (i just went out and totally forgot what i was on about i'm sure i had something really good to say anyway maybe another time)

Have Fun
[Do]JiM

 

[old.Ravenger]

Yet again .. You last guy in the UK by any chance?

I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again.

I´m not saying ANYONE should have a ping advantage. I would be happy if everyone had the same ping.. Not 0, not 600 just the same.

 

[old.Alexia]

uh ?
is it my english ?
this is what I found in the rules regarding the refs...

13 If you require a ref to overlook your game please ask well in advance.

Since when do we have to have one ?

On 9 wars played (last one not being updated yet) XL used a ref only once... or maybe twice at most...

Now we never ask for one as long as opponents are happy with it and Nico is dealing with rcon commands and we've never heard anybody complaining and it is easier for all I think... but it is not the matter here...

Regarding VIT we will play on dia... I can't understand why it is possible for us to arrange a match with them and not for other clans... dunno all sides of the matter there but I think they are not "usual whinners" and so if they are raising this point it must be a real problem for them...

I am not talking on behalf of XL here just giving my personnal opinion but I would be very sad to see them leave as they are great players and when ppl are playing VIT we know it will be a tough game... which is what we are looking for no ?

Because as I am understanding it here... they won't consider staying if they have to play on UK servers... which is fair enough considering the rules and their awful connection to UK...

The rules are stating the possibility to play either in UK on BW server or on any european server... maybe it is my english again... but it is the way I understood it...

And last thing... after we (XL and VIT) saw the server problems last time we agreed on having one team fakelagging a bit so the average team ping difference would be 50 max.

Sincerely guys and gals... why could we find a solution and not others ??? French are very clever ppl of course but still...


|XL|-Alexia
http://extralife.fr.st

 

[old.Ravenger]

Thank you Alexia for those kind words.. Maybe I´ll look you up next time I got to france...

 

[old.[BC]eat]

k i anit read all the posts since the first few so if this has been said b4 then soz. I will have a look at the 8th server see what pings we get. I dont care to much about pings bein even as long as they r still playable to a reasonable standard.

 

[old.[BC]Afx]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Bah i cant be bothered typing anymore i just think people deserved the full story
WELL STFU THEN BRUMMY TWAT - DONT JUST DO ANOTHER 2 POSTS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Stfu u demented fookin yokel
Anyway as for the VIT situation well like eat says we'll look into playing on the 8th server if possible......But i just think that coming into a league where they knew theyd be facing a majority of UK based clans with our inferior connections ..That VIT shouldve realised that playing home legs on their server wouldnt be a tenable option and so other match arrangements couldve be made.
Throughout this thread VIT seem to have made a few disparaging remarks towards the UK clan scene,With regards to our inet connections and "attitude"....Well as im sure your aware unlike most of europe Britains only just getting access to broadband connections,And most of us still have no option but our crappy piece a shit 56ks(this isnt an oh i cant be arsed to fork out for a decent connection its I cant soddin well get one at all),So for most of us were restricted to getting a decent ping on UK servers only,If i could get adsl or a cable modem i would but alas i cant ....Does this mean i should be restricted from playing online? From playing against good clans in a well run league?...I dont think it is...Were lucky that most Euro clans can get great pings to UK servers(often outpinging theyre UK opponents)its just unfortunate this situation doesnt extend to Iceland..A situation that perhaps shouldve been considered before they considered joining the league(regardless of any rules about european servers being permitted)
I really have finished now

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[BC]Afx

BODYCOUNT

 

[old.[BC]Afx]

Please remember to try and breathe whilst reading this^^^^ ....Its late and punctuation is one of the last things on my mind

------------------
[BC]Afx

BODYCOUNT

 

[old.TGC Snow]

omg, i can't believe some of the clans are moaning that they get a ping above 100. I have nothing against Euro clans at all. Most seem a lot more sporting than a lot of UK clans, but when they say stuff like "BW servers are crap, i normally get 50, but on BW I get 90" I really feel the urge to kill.

If i got ANYWHERE near a 90 ping, I would cum on my ceiling. That ping is completely shaggable, and you're F**KING -=MOANING=- about it. FFS

Christ all bloody mighty, u are a kerayzee man. Although playing on your servers does sound fair in theory, thanks to this wonderful corporation called BT, we would have trouble leaving the respawn rooms.

And moaning at ViruZ is just stupid.

So basically, if you're playing an all-LPB UK clan (very rare, still) then i suppose u have a right to request that each half is played on "home" servers.

But if u try that against any other UK clan, u are just being unfair, and trying to abuse your ping advantage even more so than u can on the BWTFCL servers.

imho, if the UK became a high bandwidth country like most of the rest of europe, we would have even better clans than we already do. DW *cough* DW *cough DW

suck my conc

 

[old.Hat0]

RAH me, I'm actually a German ISDN player pretending to be on UK 56k. HAHA, weren't expecting that was yers?

 

[old.Hat0]

Double RAH me, I'm actually a UK 56k player pretending to be a German ISDN player pretending to be a UK 56k player. HAHAHA, yous definitely weren't expecting that.

 

[old.[VIT]Zaphod]

Well I didn't know that Britain was so inferior regarding connections ...

This surely won't be a problem if we play this league next year.

We will see.

And btw I usually play with 50 ping and I think it is ok to go to 200 in ping but when I go to 250+ then that really effects my playing (5 times more ping than I am used to)


Cya all l8er

Zaphod

 

[old.TGC Snow]

oh yer, i can fully understand ppl moaning if they go 250+ ping, but it was that bloke who said that 90 ping was bad

my normal ping is in the region of 170-200

if that bloke has trouble playing with a 90 ping, then he obviously has no skill whatsoever, so has to rely on his superior ping to win matches.

 

[old.[MaR]Gonzo]

I löööööööve to make brittsh ppl upset, they are so funny when they are that.

I dont really care if i have 50 or 100, its like the same to play if there are no pl of course. I really dont see a different between 50 and 150 cause i have so f*
cking low fps that makes hw-lag. =(

But i still think thats not fair when we meet a uk clan and have to play both maps on bwtfcl server. If you want bwtfcl more european Viruz, let the european clans have a own "homeserver" every battle. Not a random server, no a server that are tested and accepted by bwtfcl crew.
Its not a demand from me if ya think so, only a tip.

Well gl the last weeks in bwtfcl everybody. Meself have a hard battle against *rock* that i look forward to play.

 

[old.TGC Snow]

m8, maybe if BT got their act together and sorted out our telecommunications network, we would have rules like u suggested.

But atm, they would be totally unfair on the brits. You see (when a Euro clan takes on Brit clan):

on BWTFCL: both clans would have similar pings, maybe slight advantage to UK clans

on Euro: UK clans would find it mostly unplayable, while Euro clans would have excellent pings

I sincerely would love to make this league European, because of the quality of European clans, but it isn't really our fault that BT are such a bunch of fuckwits who couldn't organise a heart-attack on a help the aged bus.

 

[old.[MaR]Gonzo]

I see your points and I have to agree.
Hope you folks got adsl etc soon.

In Sweden we wait for Telia´s adsl and our national lan connection.

 

[old.[BC]eat]

wtf lan connection?
You bastards

/me wants to go back ro university

I LOVE YOU JANET

HAVE MY BABIES

 

[old.Hat0]

Janet is a cruel and unforgiving mistress. Making sweet love everyday for 3 years she suddenly leaves your life with the panache with which she entered it, leaving nothing but lag in her wake.