You zergers - No You are the zergers - No, you are the zergers - ACCKK!

[Strondor_New]

I, for one, am getting thoroughly sick of zergs from ALL realms on excal and even more peed off with peeps claiming on these boards that one realm zergs more than the other.

FACT ONE:

All 3 realms zerg.
With the notable exception of several worthy regular roaving grps / guilds from all realms, the vast majority of players from all 3 realms seem to display "sardine shoal" behaviour in RvR. I can only assume that this is down to inexperience and lack of self-confidence on the part of the players. Eg they think "OOh I'm not quite sure what im doing or where i'm going. There's safety in numbers. If we all stick together then i won't be so easily picked out and killed, and at least i might get some rp's before i die".

FACT TWO:

Regular examples of zerging / shoaling in respect of all 3 realms:

Hibs: "OOH lets all hold each others hands and zerg up to emain amg. Camp amg for for 30 mins until the steady drip of small alb and mid grps finally realise that only another zerg is gonna beat our lovely zerg. But we'll run off and take dc b4 it gets too dangerous".

Albs: "FFS hib zerg have been camping amg for 30 mins now and we all keep dying in drips and drabs. OK if thats the way they want it, lets wait for 2 -3 portal laods of albs and zerg them to kingdom come".... 20 mins and lots of hib death msgs's l8er... "Well thats the hibs taken care of. Now its out turn to rp farm someone else. Lets go mmg and do it to the mids".

Mids: "FFS alb zerg have been camping mmg for 30 mins now and we all keep dying in drips and drabs. OK if thats the way they want it, lets wait for 2 -3 portal laods of mids and zerg them to kingdom come".... 20 mins and lots of hib death msgs's l8er... "Well thats the albs taken care of. Now its out turn to rp farm someone else. Lets go amg and do it to the albs".

FACT THREE:
Roaving around in an fg of 8, constantly moving, ambushing, being ambushed, ganking, being ganked is far more satisfying than zerging. It is also far more rewarding both in terms of rps and experience (and i mean proper experience as opposed to xp numbers or similar mathematical rubbish).

FACT FOUR:
Zerging actually hampers those players who actuallyy want to avoid the zerg and roave in a hunter / killer grp. A bottle neck at a mile g8 blocks both good and bad players from all realms.
If you find urself in a camping zerg steer clear of them. If u find urself in having to zerg to clear the camping zerg, dissociate urself once the job is done.

FINAL OBSERVATIONS (WHETHER UR ALB, MID OR HIB)
1) Do not be afraid of dying. You are going to die alot. It does not cost YOU anything. It is better to have died 4 times in one hour and have killed and earned 3000 rp, than to have spent one hour running scared or hiding in a zerg and earning 1000rp.
2) would'nt u rather consider urself a killer whale and in a small roaving pod, than a sardine in a mindless shoal?




As ever I have written the above with positive intentions. I hope I have not offended anyone and i do not hold myself out as some L33T uber player. Play as u wish. and above all, enjoy yourself.



Strondor Frostmane
Lvl 50 Theurgist.

Co-Founder of First Cohort

 

[Treniel-]

u get owned m8?

 

[old.Tzeentch]

where fact = opinion

 

[Tigerius]

If "everyone" was roaming emain in only 1 FG sizes it would all be fine and dandy, but when you get zerg and zerged some more and realise that 90% of the enemies are moving in that zerg, it starts feeling futile. I myself usually just promptly leave emain.

Being zerged or being the zerger is really very little difference, not very fun or rewarding in any aspect.

Of course it doesn't make sense to ASK people to split up in suitably killable bunches either. There is no solution. You don't win by splitting up, by staying together you realise that there is nothing to be won.

The only answer I have is to take combat out of emain, where encounters and numbers are more random, fight in places where pure numbers isn't all, where there is a greater goal to be achieved. Not just "lets see how long we can hold this stupid milegate".

 

[hotrat]

Great post, plz all read.
The only thing worse than a stand off @ milegates is running around emain finding no opposition at all (prolly cus one zerg is camping mpk and another is camping gorge :\ )

Albs should have no trouble splitting up a little once they reach milegate, emain is very narrow though...

/me ponders what emain would be like if u removed the milegates.

Should be better once odins and hadrians are fixed (trees and mobs), would be even better still if they added a 35-50 bg; so many nice battlegrounds could be made....
A clever bg that ports in one group from each realm at a time, to a random location within the bg but not too close together, players cannot move for 1 min, so they can buff up etc. Then they are released and the carnage begins

 

[JoxerTheMighty]

I totally agree mate.
Sadly though it is kinda hard to avoid these things. When a zerg goes on, another realm surely brings another zerg...chances for a "normal" group to break this circle - almost zero.
The only alternative (for Hibs in these case): Go to Albion or Midgard...but hey, what a surprise...all the Albs and Mids are playing in Emain.

If all the RvR wouldn't only be held between Mmg, Amg, Crauchy and Crim...we all would have more fun. Unfortunately Emain kinda enstablished itself as the "frontierzone". And this zone isn't big enough for dozens of small groups, so sooner or later zergs will form anyway.
Spread the battle somewhere else, and you will have less zerging

 

[Talifer]

Everyone likes to go out in a full group and try to kill other full groups, it is fun and a bit more challenging. BUT if you don't have a full group with at least one speed class and some form of mezzer it can be pretty pointless. I go to Emain for fun (Usually I end up requiring a new keyboard but hey ) this involves grouping with people I like, if that means we have 8 tanks running around at a snails pace then so be it, but we'd be mad to take these 8 tanks and try to find a full group of hibs to tackle (Doesn't usually stop us however ) Sometimes you have to be in the zerg or you're just going to be stun/nuked/releasing all night.

Talifer

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by hotrat

A clever bg that ports in one group from each realm at a time, to a random location within the bg but not too close together, players cannot move for 1 min, so they can buff up etc. Then they are released and the carnage begins

A tournament arena maybe?
8 players from each realm are ported in the fight until only one realm is standing and then everyone is ported out.

This could even be turned into a sort of relic. Once a week 8 players from each realm compete for the tournament relic which gives +5% melee and magic bonus. Although it might be nicer to have, say 3 full groups so there is a little more tactical manouvering.


Talifer

 

[Strondor_New]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
where fact = opinion

perhaps, but when most rvr'ers feel the same way, then i think we can safely call it a fact.

 

[Armolas]

This:

Originally posted by Strondor_New

1) Do not be afraid of dying. You are going to die alot. It does not cost YOU anything. It is better to have died 4 times in one hour and have killed and earned 3000 rp, than to have spent one hour running scared or hiding in a zerg and earning 1000rp.
[/B]

Does not apply to hibs, if you die in emain, out of res rage, you can't get back there 4 times in one hour.


Release.
Horse to DL - 5 mins
wait for rest of group, or drop group and wait for new group, about 15 minutes.

Optionally, run round DL looking for Alpha / Zilly/ Bee / Fast / whoever is camping it right now, about 20 minutes.

Run to emain - 10 minutes.

Or more commonly:

Release,
/g bugger this, I can't be arsed to go back to emian to get zerged again, I'm off to play an alt, cya later.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Strondor_New
perhaps, but when most rvr'ers feel the same way, then i think we can safely call it a fact.

The entire server could feel that way, it doesn't make them facts, just a universal opinion.
Just in case you're unclear:
fact n 1: a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case" 2: a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts" 3: an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell" 4: a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

 

[Strondor_New]

Originally posted by Dannyn

The entire server could feel that way, it doesn't make them facts, just a universal opinion.
Just in case you're unclear:
fact n 1: a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case" 2: a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts" 3: an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell" 4: a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

OK at the risk of this post resembling a late night stoned conversation between bored students who end up exististentially disappearing up the their own ass-holes in a puff of logic:
All of the above criteria apply to my "facts". In any event isn't ur dictionary definition just a subjective opinion on the word "fact"?

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Strondor_New
OK at the risk of this post resembling a late night stoned conversation between bored students who end up exististentially disappearing up the their own ass-holes in a puff of logic:
All of the above criteria apply to my "facts". In any event isn't ur dictionary definition just a subjective opinion on the word "fact"?

Ah, but the point is, I wasn't disputing whether your "facts" are facts or not, just your statement that if everyone holds an opinion it becomes fact.

 

[-Dreama-]

Ok boys, the men in the white coats are your friends, they will come and take you to a pretty place with soft walls and mushy food where you can discuss fact and opinion untill the wee hours of the morning! Have fun in the *safe* place.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Originally posted by Strondor_New

FACT ONE:

All 3 realms zerg.
With the notable exception of several worthy regular roaving grps / guilds from all realms, the vast majority of players from all 3 realms seem to display "sardine shoal" behaviour in RvR. I can only assume that this is down to inexperience and lack of self-confidence on the part of the players. Eg they think "OOh I'm not quite sure what im doing or where i'm going. There's safety in numbers. If we all stick together then i won't be so easily picked out and killed, and at least i might get some rp's before i die".

FACT TWO:

Regular examples of zerging / shoaling in respect of all 3 realms:

Hibs: "OOH lets all hold each others hands and zerg up to emain amg. Camp amg for for 30 mins until the steady drip of small alb and mid grps finally realise that only another zerg is gonna beat our lovely zerg. But we'll run off and take dc b4 it gets too dangerous".

Albs: "FFS hib zerg have been camping amg for 30 mins now and we all keep dying in drips and drabs. OK if thats the way they want it, lets wait for 2 -3 portal laods of albs and zerg them to kingdom come".... 20 mins and lots of hib death msgs's l8er... "Well thats the hibs taken care of. Now its out turn to rp farm someone else. Lets go mmg and do it to the mids".

Mids: "FFS alb zerg have been camping mmg for 30 mins now and we all keep dying in drips and drabs. OK if thats the way they want it, lets wait for 2 -3 portal laods of mids and zerg them to kingdom come".... 20 mins and lots of hib death msgs's l8er... "Well thats the albs taken care of. Now its out turn to rp farm someone else. Lets go amg and do it to the albs".

FACT THREE:
Roaving around in an fg of 8, constantly moving, ambushing, being ambushed, ganking, being ganked is far more satisfying than zerging. It is also far more rewarding both in terms of rps and experience (and i mean proper experience as opposed to xp numbers or similar mathematical rubbish).

FACT FOUR:
Zerging actually hampers those players who actuallyy want to avoid the zerg and roave in a hunter / killer grp. A bottle neck at a mile g8 blocks both good and bad players from all realms.
If you find urself in a camping zerg steer clear of them. If u find urself in having to zerg to clear the camping zerg, dissociate urself once the job is done.

'Fact' one, is not fact.
The vast majority of players tend to be inside the realm, not in the frontier, indeed, this can be confirmed at any time by doing a /who, followed by a /who <insert frontier zones>, you will see that consistently, most people will be inside the realm.

There is also no statistical data to prove that;

the vast majority of players from all 3 realms seem to display "sardine shoal" behaviour in RvR

which relegates this to an opinion, which funnily enough, is followed by an assumption.

Please point out the fact you have presented in that statement.


'Fact' two, is not fact.

It is an imaginary scenario of your own mind, how can this come under a heading of 'Fact'?

Please point out the fact you have presented in that statement.


'Fact' three, is not fact.

Roaving around in an fg of 8, constantly moving, ambushing, being ambushed, ganking, being ganked is far more satisfying than zerging. It is also far more rewarding both in terms of rps and experience

It is up to the individual concerned, what is more satisfying to him/herself, a zerg, or small, group combat.

For the latter part of your statement, the experience gained from a zerg is different to that of small group combat, it is difficult to guage how rewarding it is, it depends on the individual and the situations presented.
As for amount of RPs gained, I can tell you that I gain more RP from a MG standoff than from small group combat.

Please point out the fact you have presented in that statement.

'Fact' four, is as close to a fact you have come.
You're getting there.


Did the bait taste good?

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by -Dreama-
Ok boys, the men in the white coats are your friends, they will come and take you to a pretty place with soft walls and mushy food where you can discuss fact and opinion untill the wee hours of the morning! Have fun in the *safe* place.

Nooo I'm staying in this box and you can't make me leave!

 

[censi]

Zergs are part of the game... The only thing that pisses me off is a zerg without dircection...

This is a fact... Hib only ever create a Zerg

a) to counter the Emain Zerg of albs
b) to defend a keep
c) to attack a keep

I have said this many times... The Alb zerg comes to Emain to roam around and farm RP. Hib groups go into Emain broken up and get nailed by the 1000;s of albs running around. Hib will then get ornganised and rally together to clear out emain....

I can assure you this whole zerg thing usually gets started from Albion. This isnt a dig, its just a consequence of you having 2 times as many players as the other realms. The numbers that portal through into Emain sometime is frightning..... The only way things will change is if people make a conscious effort to start RVRing in different places other than Hib.

I wish more peeps would solo as well.... I am finding it tough soloing in Emain nowadays... I try and avoid death like the plague cause I seriously cant be bothered to make the journey back after dying.... and there are very fwe resser ever in emain.

This game can be so frustrating sometimes.... There have been moments where DAOC is just brilliant and totally enjoyable.. but more often the game is frustrating and highly unbalanced... They have fallen flat on their face with the way the RVR has evolved into this zerg fest....

There should be a dedicated LVL 50 BG where people zerg away to there hearts content.... trecking it to emain is just soul destroying. Espically is you only last a few minsutes....

 

[old.Nol]

fact is - any realm that ports anywhere tends to get a zerg going...

 

[Strondor_New]

'Fact' one, is not fact.
The vast majority of players tend to be inside the realm, not in the frontier, indeed, this can be confirmed at any time by doing a /who, followed by a /who <insert frontier zones>, you will see that consistently, most people will be inside the realm.

There is also no statistical data to prove that;


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the vast majority of players from all 3 realms seem to display "sardine shoal" behaviour in RvR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(PLSE EXSCUSE CAPS BTW - ITS BECOMING AN EFFORT TO DISTINGUISH QUOTES FROM QUOTES OF QUOTES, HEHE)

YOU SEEM TO HAVE OVERLOOKED THE LAST 2 WORDS OF THE QUOTE.."IN RVR". IS IT REALLY UR EXPERIENCE THAT MOST PEOPLE PLAY RVR WITHIN THEIR OWN REALM? IF SO I THINK MYTHIC AND / OR THE MEN WHITE COATS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN MEETING YOU.
YOUR REFERENCE TO STATISTICS IS OTIOSE. IS A FACT UNTRUE UNTIL U GET THE STATISTICS? DO BEARS DESIST FROM SHITTING IN THE WOODS UNTIL SOME SCIENTIST ARRIVES WITH HIS NOTE PAD?

FACT TWO IS A FACT THAT RECURS DAILY. HAVE U READ ANY POST FROM ANY MEMBER FROM ANY REALM WHO HAS DISPUTED THIS EXPERIENCE? IN FACT THE REPLIES TO THIS SEEM TO IDENITFY WITH IT.

FACT THREE IS A FACTUALLY CORRECT DESCRIPTION OF MY OWN EXPERIENCE DESIGNED TO ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO TRY IT.

I AM DISPAPPOINTED TO LEARN THAT YOU ARE ONLY ABLE TO EARN GREATER RP'S WHEN YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL ARE PART OF A ZERG.
YOU APPEAR THEN TO BE THE "TARGET MARKET" FOR MY ORIGINAL POST. IF YOU EXPANDED UR MIND BEYOND PEDANTRY AND ZERGING YOU MIGHT WELL ENJOY MORE SUCCESS.

 

[censi]

now u just going mad...

crazy fool...

Like I say, DAOC has some serious problems with the RVR system. Zergging is one of them, but its far from the worst problem...

Other problems I can see are things like

class imbalances---eg, why are NS's gimped, in comparison to SB's or inf's. BM's Spirit masters, Minstrals.
Overpowered RA's
Travel time to get to Emain is way way to high.
bug abuse
Other realms frontiers are deserted
Patrols are pointless. they effectivly destroy the ability for any non stealth class to solo in secondary frontier zones.
Buffbotz
realm imbalance
Zergin.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Wow, you took that personally alright.

Ok, you say is a fact untrue unless you have statistics?
No, but if you do not bring facts and make a statement asserting it AS fact, then yes, some form of evidence to back up the claim is required.

Is it a fact if I say most afro-americans in the US are criminals?

It may appear so from media coverage and your personal perspective, but this does not make it true, and certainly not a fact by any means.

Your perception does not make anything a fact.
The perception of 10 people does not make anything a fact.

And now you are saying if someone does not dispute a statement it becomes fact?
Well if I say, 'I dispute it', then it is no longer a fact?

Fact three, is now an opinion, as it is your view.
It may be a factual explantion of your view, but it is still an opinion.

I am in your target market?
Why?
Since I earn more RP in a zerg?
Do you know why this is?
My best offensive spell is suited for large numbers, are you saying I should decline the opportunity to use it?

The assumption that I spend all my time in RvR zerging is nothing but an assumption.

Indeed, you might do better to change your wording and methods of addressing people to stop coming across as a person who cannot grasp the possibilty that he may not be correct.

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Fact One - This thread is one hell of a read. ( oh %$)( thats not a fact thats just my opinion)


But seriously (/sarcasm on) Fact one the definition made by Dannyn of a fact is only one definition you could always go for the following

fact
noun
something which is known to have happened or to exist, esp. something for which proof exists, or about which there is information

and then were would you be

ps if this doesnt make sense no worries its late im bored and im trying to avoid helping to pack the suitcase

 

[old.Nol]

Other problems I can see are things like

class imbalances---eg, why are NS's gimped, in comparison to SB's or inf's. BM's Spirit masters, Minstrals.
Overpowered RA's
Travel time to get to Emain is way way to high.
bug abuse
Other realms frontiers are deserted
Patrols are pointless. they effectivly destroy the ability for any non stealth class to solo in secondary frontier zones.
Buffbotz
realm imbalance
Zergin.

Many of your issues do get resolved in future patches.

RA's have just been added to the game, and I am pretty sure there will be some nerfs coming.

Travel time - friendly speed buffs from local NPC's and logging at local frontier gate.

Other realms frontiers are being sorted out to accomodate more RvR (remmeber, going to emain is your choice, there has been loads of RvR at Odin's recently)

Buffing becomes range and timer based (look for attached humps)

Zerging - Go play in another frontier

Realm imbalance - Nerf hibs

 

[Strondor_New]

Anyyyyhooooooooooooo verbal swordplay aside,

It is enouraging to know that 1.53 will change things significantly for the better re rvr and emain.

I think most albs and mids are privately grateful that the hibs make the current journey by foot to emain. Keep it up guys, not long to go

 

[Riddler]

:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

*looks at time*

fact one: gnite :sleeping:

 

[old.Arnor]

Just had to get the last word for tonite on 6 posts or so



There will be no racial bigotry here, I dont care if you are hibs albs or midgardians, you are all equally worthless to me!

(taken freely from FMJ)

 

[Radghast]

god bless u arnor

i honestly thought i was gonna read this entire thread filled with adult conversation and intelectual arguments and not find a "U sux00rs i r00xors' remark. (j/k)

On the point of zerging i do belive that its totaly unavoidable, the way RvR is set out there is simply no way to avoid it. Atm alb/mid have to port to emain a process meaning that people gather in a small space together and are transported Enmass to there destination it is there for logical that that "zerg" will stay together atleast for a time (prob to their respective mile gates) should they find any opposition at there mgs then its a seige mentality with a little suker punching to try and estimate the enimes numbers and strength. this takes time and u will most likely get another port in this time. of course you could solve this by steamrolling thru at first sight of the gates, but this has a higher fatality rate and if there is a wipeout then all release and the zerg grows stronger as all come back with m8s to the pad.

Hibs have simillar problems in that there is usually somebody camping DL or the gorge in general and anything less than 2-3fgs could result in wipeouts, and nobody likes giving away rps to the opposition so they w8 for enough so victory or atleast safety can be assured.

it is the congrigating before departing that causes the zerging mentality, imho a open door policy should be in effect to any RvR zone, similar to the DF entrances a constant open portal to any zone so that people can travel quicker and not all at once, at the very least it would help those who prefer the seek and destroy in small groups RvR (which i do, but have only ever got a group capable to do so on 2 occasions =/) to escape the zerg and find others who share there views. then kick the bloddy piss out of em

ofcourse all of this is just my opinion (i dare u to find a fact in there...bet u cant)

 

[deadparrot]

Wow this has turned into a pointless flame fest ..


Anyway good post Strondor

Although it seems that however many posts say this, the mindless rp obsessed among us will still form herds and charge each other in emain.

It does at least leave mids frontier (as far as i've seen) free from idiots, there are groups (as in 8 people or less) from all realms having fun in odin's gate while the zerg is left in emain.

I don't find zerging fun, i'd rather play my class and have FUN. Strange as it is though I end up with more realm points than I would in a zerg playing in small groups.

One last point: a lot of tanks moan about having a hard time RvR, but in a small group tanks are a key to survival, zergs reward the ranged classes more.

 

[K0nah]

Re: Re: You zergers - No You are the zergers - No, you are the zergers - ACCKK!

Originally posted by Armolas
/g bugger this, I can't be arsed to go back to emain to get zerged again, I'm off to play an alt, cya later.

heheh and u think hibs are the only realm that use those exact words i suppose?

nice post stron. and yes to all intents and purposes those are facts. thats the way things are.

 

[kinadold]

Just 1 thing to say for the comming patches.

AE insta mezz for barde.
Group purge for warden or druid (cant remeber this late).

Blame Mythic for all the comming Alb zergs, since there is noway a alb group can win anymore