<yawns> (lessons from Thidranki)

[Brannor McThife]

<passes around the popcorn>
Well, here I sit, on the slope outside the Hibernian Portal Keep. Me, a little Lurikeen Champion. I look out at the teeming horde of little kids running back and forth like wild dogs at feeding time.

I stand up, run around a bit, jump a few times, and go back to my spot, pick up my coke and popcorn, and continue to watch the show. Occasionally, one of them gets tired and ends it all by rushing up the hill, to be nuked by 4 Master Eldriches.

I run to the side, a little variation. I see a rather large troll, wearing black dyed armour, with a Twilight shield trying to hide behind a tree. I wave, then run up and DD/Snare him, and watch as he scampers away like a scolded dog. Pathetic. A few of his friends see me standing on the side. And decide to try rush me. Oh, but what's this, they don't quite know where not to tread. And 3 of the fall to Master Nuker fireballs. What a joke.

Ah, what's that Forby and Pinkeyexz standing below like puppies waiting for a snack. I run down, DD/Snare one of them, and run back. I do this over and over, not really caring for the minute amount of damage I do. <yawns>

Died hmm... 4 times now. Once to Jennah & Co at AB, once to a troll skald (gotta love a midfight mezz ) near the ruins. Once to mobs after killing a kobold skald and being chased by her friends, and once to Arawnn, for carelessly sitting where he could PA me (268...fek, that's wussy. ) and die as the healer, sitting not 10 yards away, runs off after Arawnn instead of casting ONE heal, that would save me... Only to die a minute later as he runs out to rez someone... :sleeping:

Thidranki has shown me one thing. You may see 1 warrior there ever. Every plays a hunter/skald/SB/Shaman/runie/thane. Maybe see one healer/SM/zerker there. And you know what? You'll see every single class of Hib there. And most of Alb. What does that mean? 99% of Mid-Thidranki are alts. And they only know how to do what they do in Emain. Zerg.

<sighs>
Mids, if you changed your tactics (and this goes for the others too) to form groups to hunt in, and learn to skirmish, you'd find that more Hibs would come, and fights would be more challenging.

You cannot honestly tell me that you enjoy having 30 against 7 as it was last night? But wait. You're all there on your solo missions. 24 Cave spec'd shammies. 24 Pac Healers.

I capped every alt I took into Thid so far. I seriously doubt I will be doing so with any Hib character I create. For something to be fun, and when you 30 zerg over 4 hibs, how motivated do you think they are to pay that silver to ride the horse back, sit and port in, only to face the same thing? Ha. Ask Jenna, I gave her a running commentary on how the Hibs were quitting Thidranki last night because (a) 2+ groups of Mids camping the PK and (b) the minute they stepped out the PK and moved towards the hill, they got stampeded. Hell, sure, we made it to the bridge once, with around 8 of us. Only to be zerged by more than twice our number... oh yay... uke:

I'll be there again. Sitting on the slope. Pink, keep shooting me, and I'll keep DDing you. I'm sure you're having fun...

-G

 

[VidX]

Yip, only Hib class that has even half a chance of seeing the whole of Thid nowadays is a 'Shade.

And even then, we have to dodge the usual 5+ SB's camping the ruins-to-hpk area.

When we actually make it to the Mid bridge, no-one's there.

We decide to do a keep raid, manage to get 40+ Hibs into Thid, and are suddenly attacked frm both sides by Albs and Mids.

I sat in Thid for 3 hours on Sunday, didn't kill or show myself, and not once seen one Mid without another 10.


Once again, camping the hpk...

Ok, Trolls are like <----------> wide, trees in Thid are like <--> wide...

And an even bigger give-away: standing behind the small tree, with nice particle effects weapons sparling away cause you are in combat mode...

Please grow a brain with your new alt. Hibs can just easily get bored of sitting at the hpk, waving to silly mids at the base of the hill, and go level out of Thid.

 

[old.tuppe]

once i was chasing you, whit those mobs, what probably killed you.
think once give up so dont get xp death but notice you cannot survive against mobs so try be faster and kill before mobs.

early this morning was hibs camping our pk huge numbers! 7 against our 4 but they leaved some reason? maybe could waite when we needed release and port back when they campped in our bodys.

all agree pk camping is lame, why that still happend?
even middies are more than alb/hibs together, we camp.

maybe because its only place where find nonstealther class?
or we stand in brigde, when assasins hit poisons and run away?
healing, ressing etc etc.
when see albs/hibs out of pk, they run immediatly back to pk.

we speak now numbers!
if alb/hibs want no more pk camping, bring more troops what force us to move brigdes or ck.
luckily my rm is soon capped rp´s from thidraki and continue lvl up, and empty bf:s

btw have noticed same, alb and hibs move too 4-6 peoples group, so my hunter cannot snipe solo mages
instead assasin is sniping me, but that is another story.

 

[Brannor McThife]

I could've survived against the mobs. Just not against 2 of them and you and the shammy.

Also, to be able to field a decent amount of Thidranki Hibs, you have to substantially reduce the number of L45+'s. Unlike Mid.

Notice, I didn't say that camping the APK is bad, since Albs did it to the Mids a lot in the days I was there first. I recall the first night I enterred Thidranki with my infil. Mids were camping the APK. Myself and 4 other infils proceeded to teach the Mids that assassins are to be respected. A few weeks down the line, Thid was swarming with SBs. Alb < Mid >>>>>>> Hib. Just saying, let the Hibs out to play, and there'll be more fun for all.

-G

 

[SilverHood]

yeah, mid mez is a bitch. I feel sorry for using it, but hey, thats life

And my skald is there to get away from the zerg. 90% of the time you'll see me running about doing my own thing. Daring infils to try me, or maybe hit lone hibs charging about.

If you wanna zerg, go emain, rather than doing it in the BG

 

[ulukin]

The one thing that took me a while to learn about this game and a most valuble lesson to learn was:

People enjoy the game differently and no matter how much you post or whine in cg's or on irc you wont bend peoples will to suit your own preferences.

Admittedly I find the pk camping rather tiresome, personally I enjoy one on one chance encounters or even 2 on 1 in there favour and get het up when im enjoying such a fight and 3 infils come over and gank me, but its how they enjoy the game so fair play.

also as you said its not just mids that camp the pk's i also have been in thid a while back and albs were doing exactly the same, and furthermore i expect if hibs owned the Ck and had the numbers you would see the exact same thing from them.

Only way i see it changing is message ppl 20/24 gather at pk and ZERG!

 

[old.Krogar_Thane]

@ brannor

its not an effect of the players play styles, its the effect of the numbers imbalance.

i only play BG atm, working my way thru and capping all mid classes, done 4 so far, and there the numbers ladder is..

alb>mid> hib

however once in a while a large number of hibs come out to play, or the mids out number the albs.

these forces push out from their pks and then great big raging battles happen all over thid.

fun!

the mids (kids, mature peeps, gamers, leet haxxors, 1 and all) come to thid to fight...if there are no enemies about, they will go and look at the tks.

now im not agreeing with camping tks...it sucks, i avoid it if possible, but sometimes you cant, and no amount of you posting, please let us out for some fun...will change anything.

the bottom line is, if, for whatever reason, there are not enuff hibs to make a decent force, then you will get killed at hb, 100 steps down the road from htk.

 

[Sade]

Have to 100% agree with you on the character creation bit of thidranki. Having put a 24 friar, and a a 24 enhance/rejuve cleric through thidranki, most of the time there have been (and im talking prime time saturday/sunday) only me or maybe 1, 2 at a stretch, other healers/rezzers about.

Get seriously fed up of it, but have learnt to live with it, and rely on the people i have grouped with to get the RP's.

Basic combat when comming through the Pk is :

#1 Rez the stupid casters who got too close, PA'd by an SB, then DoT'd twice by the shammies when trying to run up the hill.

#2 Rez the valiant armsmen/paladins, of which there are about 2 on regular, who thought they were getting backed up by the casters, Read #1

#3 Sit for 10 minutes mana-regening (allthough, there seems to be a fair few minis about nowadays)

#4 Repeat over from #1


So out comes Welard, Full-Smite, little in rejuve to cure poison. Fun aint even the word when playing him.

Think the reason why people dont make healer type classes is the million or so rez/requests from the many people who cant play their class well, or failed to remember that thidranki is a) full of stealth classes and b) usually like the zerging in emain, but a mini-zerg.

Often see people go from our pk in ones and twos, only to be raped by either a wolfpack of SB's, or a group of skalds.

Cant really tell people anything of their character choice, but even if we had some more full-smite clerics about, you can still solo SB's, Smite for 150+ damage, and what we need more of people who can heal and REZ!

##Rant Over##

See you in thid.....

 

[rynnor]

Hibs currently have no chance since they never come in numbers or if they do they give up on 1st attempt.

Albs can occasionally take CK but they have a tuff time with too many infiltrators and often too few numbers when somebody else holds the CK.

It may not be desirable for one realm to dominate but Mids are just too darn organised and tend to see the enemy taking the keep as a reason to go to thidranki where the other realms see it as a disincentive - occasionally somebody rallies one of the other realms together but first wipeout and everyone releases.

Secret to keep taking is persistance and rams - seldom see much of either these last few weeks.

Not a flame - just an impression - more than happy to be proved wrong - then its fun again

P.S. As a mend specced shaman I can attest to the fact that a well supported force (with healers) is worth a lot more than mere numbers - bring your healers to thidranki !

 

[old.chesnor]

The problem with Albs is they actually believe Smite Clerics have been gimped. Sure they've been nerfed, but they are by no means gimped. There is always a temptation to say smie clerics could do x,y,z and hit for 500dmg etc..etc.. pre-nerf now they suck. But they don't really. Go to classes of camelot and look at the smite line, its really good.

Basically, there are not many smite clerics on the treadmill atm. I took a smite cleric through Thidranki recently, and I too was the bane of all the SBs. I have an infi in Thid atm, and tbh it is boring compared to my smiter, because I get my arse handed to me on a plate as often as I kill. My smite cleric died a handful of times getting 385RP, my infil has died about 10 times getting 22RP...go figure.

The smite nerf won't change that, it will just mean smiter will have to melee a bit longer to make up for the dmg reduction on smite, and rest for 5mins in between pbaoemezz instead of 30s. So what...

Albion is truly its own worst enemy at times.....

And back OT. Brannor, the problem you describe can be simplified thus. The way RP is distributed in Thidranki is so wrong. People don't group for this reason. When people don't group communication is poor (chatgroups just don't cut it imho), when communication is poor, the zerg is the inevitable outcome.

Basically, the battlegrounds are poorly designed. They are somewhere between a free-for-all realm based duelling arena, and a scaled down version of real RvR. They should either A) remove RP earning completely and let people just play there for pure fun and make it so you release back to the portal keep with res sickness OR b) have no RP limit, only level limit, so people don't cap out so stupidly, stupidly quickly if they work together with good tactics in fgs. I mean, if you had 8 skilled players with balanced classes for a perfect group in Thidranki, how long do you think it would take those 8 people to cap. 1 or 2 hrs ???? Given that many, many people level alts specifically for Thidranki, and this takes a few days, people just don't want to cap in 2hrs.

 

[opoc]

Hibs do actually have quite a few people, problem is though that they are stuck in the pk becuase the hibs cant beat the 30 mids standing outside who will all jump on a lvl 20 who runs out solo just for the sake of one rp :/

Also its nice to see that 6 lvl 24 sbs will all have /stick on each other wandering around until they find the lowest lvl caster they can and all PA with two handed swords and axes at the same time, is it really needed? :/

 

[old.tuppe]

same can say from ns and infs, mostly from infs.

 

[opoc]

Only ever been attacked by two infs at a time or two shades at a time and they didnt bother PA together or /stick together, they hunted like two normal people do sometimes, not like i have seen sbs do, like they plan it out and sit there all night doing it and probably made the chars to do it

It is a shame

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by opoc
Only ever been attacked by two infs at a time or two shades at a time and they didnt bother PA together or /stick together, they hunted like two normal people do sometimes, not like i have seen sbs do, like they plan it out and sit there all night doing it and probably made the chars to do it

It is a shame

Why - infiltrators hunt in packs all the time (when people with a clue are online) - anyone trying to solo in thid deserves all they get really same as in real rvr.

Ive had 3 infiltrators on me quite a few times - prob because I was playing a troll

If SB's want to be organised u better get organised too.

 

[Forbitzzzzz]

It all boils down to numbers.

More Mids go there, so when there is noone to fight they run to the apk and mpk to look for a fight.

The time you were dding me when stood beside pinkeyes, there were mids at apk and mids at the bridges and central keep.

To Mids its really a choice of where to go fight.

Anyway ur a guldie so not much point in me posting ;P I can just gc tell you.

You see the numbers ur self when u log into mid, so when u see us camping the hpk u know it isnt the lot of us, maybe 10-15 of us while other 20 or so are somewhere else.

Yes I do think its unfair for tanks like urself and tanks from all realms as they get no joy from pk camping. The ppl who have ranged attacks go there because they get bored waiting for albs/hibs to come fight.

You can talk for hours on this but it wont change, ppl get bored and go to the pk's cause they know at least they can hit something there, or because they chase a hib/alb zerg back there.

As for ppl going in groups, most ppl dont like grping in thid as it gives rp too quickly so we all use cg's. Its a game design fault, if they increased or removed rp limit grping woud be a option.

Forby

p.s. think ur being harsh on mid char selection, next time ur on mid do a /who thid u will see its pretty much got all classes although of course more of the popular classes. No way can u say albs have a good mix, they are mainly fire/ice wiz,scout, minstrel and 1000's of infs. Very rare to see a tin can.

 

[old.Hothnogg]

I agree with Forbitzzzzz Mids do have the greater numbers in Thid at this time.

Trying to get people to move away from Pk's is a nigthmare only a handlful of like minded people will go to them when a yell or cg is broadcasted to withdraw to them. Other dont want to listen and stay behind alot the time.

Tanks in Thid no mater the realm dont get much fun so i guess thats why we seeing less and less of them, not alot they can do if stood at a pk trying to get down past all the ranged casters or even if a tank stood at bottom camping all they get to hit is the odd stealther whos poped and running back.

I have had a Zerker in Thid and the only action it got was at bridges when not many mids online so no pk camping was going on.

SO in short even tho this been said to death Stop pk camping, if its a zerg to the pk ress and withdraw to a bridge at least so our tanks can get in on the action.

And Brannor i made a cave spec shaman for bg only, yes its good, yes it fights/aoe root/aoe dot more than it heal, thats the way i wanted to play it. BUT it does ress and heal when its needed

Most time only see me at pks to go to ress even run solo alot of the time to do it sure you can find me to pa me cant miss me im a troll that stands behind trees.

 

[daphatfriar]

After levelling my new Ranger to BG levels I was looking forward to some BG action with her. I like her alot and was looking forward to both the rps for some realm abilities and a practice with an "archer" class that I have never played on any realm before I went to "Real" RvR at later levels.

My patience was done for at 11rps or 8 or 9 kills as that translates. I simply cant can't be arsed facing overwhelming odds
every damn night and not being able to play my character as intended. BG offered very little to learn tactically or in terms of fun. I would turned out for either reason but both were absent for me.

Eventually I went back to soloing (which as every Scout/Hunter/Ranger will tell you is odious but needed in order to level) as it seemed to me that it would be better to enter Emain etc with an organised guild group at a higher level as long term this would be more satisfying.

I am now level 31 and will go RvR properly at 40 and frankly will be behaving like the worst kind of n00b due a lack of training but I am sure this will be more fun than BG.

I'm not a moaner (I hope) but I had alot more fun in the Exc BG with my minstrel as the Alb to Mid numbers are alot more similar. If I need a BG fix Morrissey can solo all but yellow tanks and is versatile and fun to play. Oh, and he can leave his telekeep in safety which is nice. I dont camp other TKs to do so is dull and IMHO defeats the object of the BGs in any case.

Anyhow good luck to all Hibs who do have the patience to return time and time again I only wish sometimes I was one of them :/

 

[Damon_D]

pk camping is so borring my lil new alt for thid ran up and hug'd a few armsmen and master wizzards.... More or less impossible to find a lil nice 1v1 there..Even if your winning a 1v1 peopel will rush like bees to honny to get 1 lousy rp....And well yes we do pk camp... but its gets borring to sit on ya behind on bridge and wait for nothing to happen.. well depending on what alt im using i can either cast a few mjolnirs at the pk..or stand and hope some infil attacks me...both is borring as hell

 

[old.Hothnogg]

Not everyone wants the 1 rp tho, im one and know many others that will not group, just use cg so are rp dosnt gain like mad. we like it in the bg so much we want to make it last.

REMOVE RP CAP IN BG !!!!!!!

 

[The Real Redi]

"anyone trying to solo in thid deserves all they get really same as in real rvr"

so, even though Redi is a merc, a loud, rattling, non-stealthing merc, he managed to find a way to cap in thidranki, after the initial hubub of it all died down, and at 35 is about 2000 off of RR2?

In the BGs, yeah, i get owned, when im suddenly mezzed and set about by 3 or 4 SBs with caster backup, i dont stand a chance, then neither would you. If however, i am started on by a stealther, even with PA and poisons, i can take you down. I proved this on numerous occaisons when i was SOLO in the BG, having a luri dance up and poke something in my back, only to have me resist the poison and take off his nymphy little face with the flat edge of my swords.

Equally, casters, do you forget that your not always backed up against a wall? the number of casters i killed on the bridge was obscene. When i was of an age for Thid, that was the only weakness the Mids had - when they were winning hugely, they got overconfident. When defending or easing forward to take ground, the Mids are by far the best organised and were very slick,but once they reach that bridge, and people are falling back on the keep, they get cocky, and the magic men die <shrugs> dont blame me!!

 

[Brannor McThife]

You cannot remove the RP cap in the BG's. That would be stupid. You'd have RR10 L24's eventually, owning everything solo.

No, neither removing the cap, nor the RP's totally will solve the situation. People go to Thidranki with alts, because full blown RvR sucks. It's that simple.

You know, I had to shake my head last night. A few incidents that kinda explained why there isn't a great number of Hibs about...

1) Albs attacking Mids on AB, so I snare a cabalist, who sends his/her pet at me. I swim away, now, instead of actually helping me, a L21 Thane decides he'd rather try eek out one RP than help the enemy of his enemy.

2) Three times, I attacked Mids that were solo. An SB, a skald, and a runie. The SB scamperred away towards the CK. The skald mezzed me and ran away like a little girl. The runie, whom I attacked at range FROM IN THE WATER, fled and never looked back.

3) Alb and Mid are having a big fight outside APK. 6 Hibs arrive, smack in the middle because the "leader" (Quote: "I'm not a n00b") didn't scout, and landed the only 6 Hibs in Thid, in between the two zergs. All dead, all release. Not only this, but the Albs and Mids then team up to kill the 6 Hibs. uke: I was Shot by a scout, nuked by a runie (happened to be the same runie that ran away earlier), hit by a skald and attacked by an armsman/paladin.


Really can't see the point of Hibs going to Thidranki anymore. Maybe I'll just level my L15 Runie and go camp a PK somewhere...

-G

 

[The Real Redi]

Hey Brannor, Dil will be there soon, so watch your arse, otherwise ill heal and buff you to death!

well, i might see if i can get Team up there too... a long range roasting fingered brimstone licking Luri lighting skald skalding wizard with a deeply concerning social-interactivity problem and a worrying obsession with calorific content in trolls. Yes, if he doesnt kill any mids or hibs, he'll drive the rest of the albs into a batllefrenzy born of a struggle to get teh hell away from his weird ideas :whip:

then again, i forgot, even though its a totally fantastical environment, people still dont understand the concept of RPing, preferring to assume that every single person in Nordic days, Ancient Albion and Celtic myth, all spoke with a cockney accent and referred to each other as "m8eee!" and "n008!!!!" or perhaps "Y34H! !M 0083R h4rD 4Nd !LL 0VVN u 4LL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

i'll bet thats what Arthur used to call Gawain, yus, your right, that is truly the most obvious turn of phrase, i dont know why i have been acting soooo dumb and childish that i actually learnt to SPEAK AND TYPE PROPERLY WHEN I WAS AT SCHOOL!!!!!

 

[rynnor]

At one point last night an Alb Zerg appeared when most of the Mids were dead - they milled around outside the CK and then for some unknown reason headed over towards the Hib PK and just stopped for no apparent reason in the ruins???

If they had instead gone and left some casters outside the Mid PK they could have slowed the reinforcements and maybe had a go at taking the keep?

Instead the Mid reinforcements came thru untouched to the CK then we all headed accross the Hib Bridge and slaughtered the Alb Zerg.

What a wasted opportunity when nearly all defenders had had to release???

 

[old.Bubble]

SB packs really suck
when ever i even knock a SB out of stealth he spamms /yell
and 3 or 4 more come and gank me

 

[old.tuppe]

as inf packs
this is allways what way you look it.
sadly first time last night, did my first /laugh to luri, was really pissed after i get ressed and immediatly one luri stab again, luckily before dead rooted him so other had change to gank him up and down, i get ress again but luri needed release.

 

[Myddrin]

Surely a nice idea would be an option to remove all your realm points so when you hit the cap you can choose to reduce your realm points back to zero?

Saying that the number of BG junkies around I think Thidranki would get very busy

 

[case-rigantis]

i hear what you`re saying brannori followed teh mid zerg around night with my infi picking off the silly ones who kept sitting down

i witnessed the hibbies brave attempt at the hibby bridge to kill some trolls even took out 2 or 3 midgard casters to help you out but to no avail

from now on i`ve decided i`ll not be killing hibbies in thid again only middies for me

don`t worry i`m not asking for underrstanding from you hibbies..it doesn`t matter you won`t see me

come to huntseker little trolls....

Huntseker level24 infi

 

[swords]

Hmm in my time in thidranki i have had a Thane who capped (those were the days where the keep changed hands twice a week)
And Swords who hasnt had a realm point in about 3 weeks
(i kill and i kill and no rps. not that im bothered)

Swords has been wandering through Thidranki for a long time and i have seen many new batches of people coming through. some of my old friends have remade their characters and are going through again.
every new batch of Mids has to be "trained" by the people who have been in thidranki before and it gets tiring.

I dont know how many times i said dont camp the pk with Odinson and i have said the same with swords for the majority.
SAometimes i will venture with a sb friend of mine up to each pk to see if you guys are ready to fight and come to the bridge, it's what stealthers are supposed to do.

sometimes we manage to get the Mids organised so they dont all go off and end up camping the pk if we win a fight, come back and let you guys rez that way you dont have to release and you'll be back sooner so we can fight again.

once we had it so the hibs and albs came alternating and that was probably the best day in thidranki i have every had.
Eventually we managed to beat both groups off with our backs to the Ck doors and it was a good hour of fighting.

So i say why dont you guys try and take the keep more often???
hell i would give you the rams if i could.
learning how to take keeps is pretty much what BG is all about.
learning how to organise groups, how to use siege weapons, how to take the lord down (not knocking the doors down and sitting there for the guards to repop albs ;p ) how to respond to a countercharge (setting groups up on each bridge to hold off reinforcements) how to tackle the guards etc.

this stuff is important later on in Emain/Hadrians/odins when your lvl 50.

also instead of removing the cap simply make it so you cant get more than 350 rps. you can still go to thidranki at 24 and you can still kill peeps without gaining rps for it.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Log in tonight, thinking, maybe I'll take the champion around for a run.

Get ganked by two black-clad infils at the ruins. Then watch their black-clad group come and rez the one that my partner got. :sleeping:

/release
/quit

Go back to playing another alt.

Have fun assassins... :sleeping:

-G

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by swords
learning how to take keeps is pretty much what BG is all about.
learning how to organise groups, how to use siege weapons, how to take the lord down (not knocking the doors down and sitting there for the guards to repop albs ;p ) how to respond to a countercharge (setting groups up on each bridge to hold off reinforcements) how to tackle the guards etc.

No, it's about creating a twinked SB/Skald/infil and rubbing your own ego with how "uber" you are.

-G