Wrong or not

[Ebra]

Im getting angry about Arti's again and did notice there are alot off strange idee's about camping.
First off all camping is against CoC like we all know.
So camping a spot with a toon will NOT make the mobs yours.
Most arti mobs are to hard to solo pull so if a grp is sooner there then the grp you trying to make you are just out off luck.
Instead try to appeal to common sence and try to join the grp for at least credit.
Second if a grp is already busy and even if the grp is wiped dont steal the mob away.
Its not against CoC but its also not very decent thing to do.
Third try to keep a open mind if you are on a spot try to share instead off claiming.
We need alot more working together if we do in the end it will all pay off in RvR.
Its all about knowing at the other side off the chars you meet there is a person with the same wishes as you do. :wub:

 

[Knolan]

here we go again!

 

[Gibbo]

If someone is there and they say "its camped, its my mob" and they clearly can't pull and kill the mob in question i'll ask i they have a group incoming.

If they say "yes" to this then they have 10 minutes for their group to get there or at least look like they have a group inc in that time. If they don't then i'll pull. I used to be more leanient with the time, but they would say "player x is inc to help" and 15 minutes later "player x" is still in Emain obviously making no effort to help his/her friend and you're also risking other people turning up who won't offer this chance.

If its a mob I can't kill by myself then its a race to see who gets their group there first. Not who was camped there first.

I think this is fair.

 

[Sendraks]

First off all camping is against CoC like we all know.

No its not. If a person wishes to camp a location, they can do so until they are blue in the face. If their idea of a whacky time is to sit at one loc all day long waiting for a spawn, thats their call, there is nothing wrong with that. Its just a bit sad.

Everything else you said I agree with. Unfortunately for many players if its a choice between being a decent human being and obtaining UBAH ITAMZ, decency goes out the window every time. Sad, but true.

 

[Marc]

Ironheart inc

 

[Ego]

Im getting angry about Arti's again and did notice there are alot off strange idee's about camping.
First off all camping is against CoC like we all know.
So camping a spot with a toon will NOT make the mobs yours.
Most arti mobs are to hard to solo pull so if a grp is sooner there then the grp you trying to make you are just out off luck.
Instead try to appeal to common sence and try to join the grp for at least credit.
Second if a grp is already busy and even if the grp is wiped dont steal the mob away.
Its not against CoC but its also not very decent thing to do.
Third try to keep a open mind if you are on a spot try to share instead off claiming.
We need alot more working together if we do in the end it will all pay off in RvR.
Its all about knowing at the other side off the chars you meet there is a person with the same wishes as you do. :wub:

-Camping is not against the CoC.
-Killing/finishing or taking over the mob when the initial group is killed is perhaps 'not very decent' no, but it's not against the CoC.
-If a person that's been camping the mob for XX hours is quickly assembling a group and another group happens to pass by and kills the mob, it's not against the CoC but wouldn't be considered 'very decent'.


So imo, you just 'stole' someone's artifact and you're trying to make yourself feel better by setting the so called CoC- and 'Decency-rules-' to your hand.

 

[Glottis]

Artifact mobs cannot be camped (well, normal mobs cannot either, but there is the difference of spawn rate really).
If there is a toon at Maddening Scalars mob, and I get there, I will offer to invite him to my BG, but unless he is there with the right tools to do the job, I will try to get the artifact.
And yes, if I would die, even if the mob was at 2% hp, then the other person/group can just finish it off. Polite thing would be just to rez and let the person/group finish it, but it all depends on the mood I guess.
Some dude standing at SoM waiting for it to pop for 8 hours does not mean he gets 10 mins to get a group to do it.
It just means he might have the advantage of being the first to know it is up.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Thorwyn]

So imo, you just 'stole' someone's artifact and you're trying to make yourself feel better by setting the so called CoC- and 'Decency-rules-' to your hand.

What makes you think that he "stole" someone´s artifact? I can´t see a single word in Ebra´s post that would justify your "imo".

....is quickly assembling a group

What´s quickly in your books? 5 Minutes? 10? 30? And why is it "not very decent" when people kill a mob that´s not being attacked? Are you a "CAMPED" yelling artifact camper, trying to bend the decency rules to your hand by any chance?

 

[Chronictank]

1) someone is camping mob
2) you pull mob despite this
3) you die
4) they kill mob get arti, perhaps give you some laugh spam

imo you didnt do the descent thing in the first place so deserved all you got

 

[Thorwyn]

1) someone is camping mob

...you cannot

2) you pull mob despite this

and?

3) you die

tuff shit

4) they kill mob get arti, perhaps give you some laugh spam

ok... other scenario:
I roll lvl 20 toons on all my accounts. I camp SoM, GoV and Scalars 24/7. I consider all wandering groups who dare to pull my camped mobs "not acting decently". I claim to have people incoming ... my friends just need to log on after work. One is online already, he´s in Emain currently but will suicide as soon as the others are logging on. I EXPECT everyone to respect my efforts and to piss off and go hunt somewhere else.

...that better?

If you still haven´t got it: CAMPING a mob and expecting to get ANY advantage out of camping it except for a little time advantage when it spawns isn´t "acting decently" in the first place.

 

[Tootz]

I've always thought that whoever is there first, with a setup able to do the encounter, has the right to go and do it. If there is a soloer or something there who has been camping, then offer to let them join the BG for credit, then at least they get something out of it.

But there is no way anyone should feel guilty for doing an artifact just because a level 20 cleric shouts "oi! camped!!".

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

"First off all camping is against CoC like we all know"

Really.....

Please post CoC terms where it says this?

 

[Ego]

What makes you think that he "stole" someone´s artifact? I can´t see a single word in Ebra´s post that would justify your "imo".


What´s quickly in your books? 5 Minutes? 10? 30? And why is it "not very decent" when people kill a mob that´s not being attacked? Are you a "CAMPED" yelling artifact camper, trying to bend the decency rules to your hand by any chance?

He says he's getting angry again by artifacts, so it would make sense to think he has been in some sort of incident wouldn't it?

Second of all I didn't put the word 'stole' between brackets for nothing; It was to indicate the fact that everyone has his own view of what is considered against the CoC or 'not decent'


10 minutes is generally thought of as quickly I think yes when you're referring to assembling a group.

If you fail to see why it would be considered 'not decent' to pull a mob that someone has been actively waiting on for a number of hours, there's something seriously wrong with your set of morals and thus I'd advice you to stuff your thumb back in your throat and start life all over again.

And no, I'm not a 'CAMPED' yeller trying to bend the decency rules to my hand. I've done my share of camping before the crowd got greedy and artifact flame threads ruled this forum.



My thread was just to point out that these kind of topics are useless because people interpret the 'decency' and CoC-rules in such a way to make it profitable for them.

 

[Greenfingers]

it's pretty simple actually.

CoC says that a player can not claim or camp a mob/arti.

The way I see it the CoC is partly correct when it comes to "decent behavior". I think it's fair that 1 player is camping an artifact, as most people don't really want to wait for countless hours, waiting for a mob to pop. When a guy claims that he has friends inc to take the mob it's usually true, but some sort of time limit should be fair, ~20 mins depending on the location and type of mob. When the 20 mins is up and there isn't really any effort then I don't think that it's unfair to pull the mob.

• The player either don't have any friends inc (LIAR!!!1)
• They too slow and don't take the "camper" serious, or simply don't give a #¤"@!!!

When Im out grabbing an arti I normally tend to do this and I gladly invite people to BG if they need the encounter. Noone ever complainted about it, as they had their chance to get people, but they choose not to or failed to do so.

 

[Ego]

it's pretty simple actually.

CoC says that a player can not claim or camp a mob/arti.

The way I see it the CoC is partly correct when it comes to "decent behavior". I think it's fair that 1 player is camping an artifact, as most people don't really want to wait for countless hours, waiting for a mob to pop. When a guy claims that he has friends inc to take the mob it's usually true, but some sort of time limit should be fair, ~20 mins depending on the location and type of mob. When the 20 mins is up and there isn't really any effort then I don't think that it's unfair to pull the mob.

• The player either don't have any friends inc (LIAR!!!1)
• They too slow and don't take the "camper" serious, or simply don't give a #¤"@!!!

When Im out grabbing an arti I normally tend to do this and I gladly invite people to BG if they need the encounter. Noone ever complainted about it, as they had their chance to get people, but they choose not to or failed to do so.

This I find very 'decent'

bravo

 

[Thorwyn]

10 minutes is generally thought of as quickly I think yes when you're referring to assembling a group.

Yeah.. that´s where we agree. Giving a person 10 minutes to assemble a group is the right and polite thing to do and everything would be easier if we would ALL agree there. However, reality is teaching us, that some people are not giving a damn about this and - instead - stick to their CoC rules. And they´re 100% right to do so. They´re not bending the rules or anything. Fairplay is something you can´t expect or demand from everybody.

If you fail to see why it would be considered 'not decent' to pull a mob that someone has been actively waiting on for a number of hours, there's something seriously wrong with your set of morals and thus I'd advice you to stuff your thumb back in your throat and start life all over again.

Funny you still don´t see my point. It absolutely doesn´t matter whether the guy is waiting there for 10 minutes or 24 hours. I have no influence on that, so how should I know and why should I care? I find it highly IMMORAL to camp an artifact and consider it yours because you did. Pulling a camped mob is not worse or better than camping it and expecting others to hold back. I`m the last person to play unfair, disrespectful or impolite. But I don´t want to be treated with disrespect myself. So what I said is true, regardless of how long he´s been sitting there: give him the 10 minutes and if he fails to pull, go ahead. That´s as polite and respectful as you can be.

My thread was just to point out that these kind of topics are useless because people interpret the 'decency' and CoC-rules in such a way to make it profitable for them.

True. But that goes for both sides... the arti campers and the arti grabbers. And my point was just to demonstrate, that camping artis (and expecting... yadda yadda) is as bad as ignoring the camper.

 

[Ego]

Yeah.. that´s where we agree. Giving a person 10 minutes to assemble a group is the right and polite thing to do and everything would be easier if we would ALL agree there. However, reality is teaching us, that some people are not giving a damn about this and - instead - stick to their CoC rules. And they´re 100% right to do so. They´re not bending the rules or anything. Fairplay is something you can´t expect or demand from everybody.



Funny you still don´t see my point. It absolutely doesn´t matter whether the guy is waiting there for 10 minutes or 24 hours. I have no influence on that, so how should I know and why should I care? I find it highly IMMORAL to camp an artifact and consider it yours because you did. Pulling a camped mob is not worse or better than camping it and expecting others to hold back. I`m the last person to play unfair, disrespectful or impolite. But I don´t want to be treated with disrespect myself. So what I said is true, regardless of how long he´s been sitting there: give him the 10 minutes and if he fails to pull, go ahead. That´s as polite and respectful as you can be.



True. But that goes for both sides... the arti campers and the arti grabbers. And my point was just to demonstrate, that camping artis (and expecting... yadda yadda) is as bad as ignoring the camper.

We agree then as far as I can tell

And I'm not saying a guy that has been actively camping/waiting for XX hours has the RIGHT to claim the mob, I just feel it's fair to give him the first go and give him around 10 mins to complete his group

 

[Draylor]

No point in trying to apply common sense or decency now: greed has taken over.

Too many people have the attitude that anything that doesnt get them banned is fair.

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

ive said it once n ill say it again. BUT. IMO people who use the CoC to the word, and disregard anybody who has been sat there for hrs after they just trundle upto arti with a fg and then pull n take arti. is just using the CoC as an exscuse for being an asshole

peoples greed these days has forgone the days when people used to respect people camping for mobs n stuff... yes some may say its different with arti's . but it aint.... oil rag mob had a long spawn and people respected others whome were camping it .... sidi the same had long spawn and others respected people booking/already farming there. and other mobs the same sorta way ....

but nowadays peoples greed just ignore others and run in for the kill to fill there own plat supply more . it used to be.......

ooooo we cant farm <mob name here> because somebody is already camping it..

now it is .......

Hey <insert mob here>'s popped. sum1 is camping it . fuck him, lets use the CoC to its exact wording. get 1st hit on the mob. and claim it as ours!

 

[Thorwyn]

So... sitting 15 hours in front of nothing is not a sign of greed?

Respecting campers like you say will result in exactly what I´ve described a couple posts above: people will roll tons of alts and all artis will be camped 24/7 by people with lots of free time, basically cutting off and controlling the entire artifact supply. No casual gamer will ever have a chance of getting an artifact because all arti pops will be in the hands of a few guys who can afford to live their lives watching a spawnpoint.

You´re accusing people who´re hiding behind the CoC to defend their greed. What about people who´re hiding behind ethics and morale to defend their greed?

 

[Ashton]

Just like to thank Knights of Camelot for showing the respect/decency mentioned in this thread when my friend stumbled across SoM encounter the other day. My m8 had called for the group i was in to come and help, when the KoC group that was easily capable of completing the encounter turned up. They gave us the time we needed to get there, and left us to it when we arrived.

I know some people will think its lame for me to post saying that here etc, but i just wanted to highlight that there still are many friendly peeps ingame.

It was really appreciated by us all /respect KoC :worthy:

 

[Ashton]

and no he hadnt been camping SoM all day, he was actually inc to join our group and just passing by when he saw the encounter was up

 

[Ego]

So... sitting 15 hours in front of nothing is not a sign of greed?

Respecting campers like you say will result in exactly what I´ve described a couple posts above: people will roll tons of alts and all artis will be camped 24/7 by people with lots of free time, basically cutting off and controlling the entire artifact supply. No casual gamer will ever have a chance of getting an artifact because all arti pops will be in the hands of a few guys who can afford to live their lives watching a spawnpoint.

You´re accusing people who´re hiding behind the CoC to defend their greed. What about people who´re hiding behind ethics and morale to defend their greed?

They need not to hide, because they are right.


... but that's just imo

p.s that's devotion imo, not greed And yes, they may have more time than others, but that's the key to a game like this: People who put the most time in it, get the most out of it. Would turn into greed if they kept camping/farming just to have the arti so that they could sell. However.... I think people have better things to do with their time than camping just to sell loot after

 

[Marc]

wot no ironheart pop?

 

[pbaz]

Give it time Marc - it usually takes a few days. You know the drill - everyone else has a productive discussion and the matter gets resolved as far as it can.

Then "the guru" pops, bumps the 3 day-old thread and spouts several pages of utter rubbish. We've seen it so many times before that I'm sure you must know how the "Summon Ironheart" ability works?

To return to topic:

They need not to hide, because they are right.

Ethics are plastic and change through time. For example, it was previously considered ethical to execute criminals - most nations now consider that unethical. We've recently seen ethic plasticity appear in-game. 2 years ago, it was considered ethical to respect a camp spot. Now, it is considered ethical to respect the encounter. The difference is subtle, but important and, imo, it's a wise change that has happened. I hope I can explain my thoughts...

If the encounter requires 1fg+ to complete and the person who is camped there does not have that 1fg+ then it is ethical for the first 1fg that arrives to complete the encounter as soon as possible. Indeed, I would even argue that the most ethical behaviour would be to complete the encounter immediately! No waiting for 10-20 minutes! Why do I say this? The reason is that completing that encounter as soon as it comes up means that it repops again as soon as possible. This maximises the number of opportunities available to the entire realm to complete the encounter. Every single second of time spent with an encounter up is actually robbing the whole realm of short repop times. In my opinion, people who prevent repops (eg. campers sitting at an arti mob saying "I have a group inc in 10 minutes!") are the ones behaving unethically - they are screwing every single person in our realm!

Of course, I also recognise the need to promote realm harmony. I personally always give 10 minutes to a "camped" arti to allow the camper's group to arrive. But after that time has elapsed, I take the encounter. I would encourage everyone to adopt this strategy. 10 minutes is plenty time get your group to the camp if they are serious about helping. Any more of a delay than 10 minutes is totally unethical and unacceptable to the entire realm.

I have nothing against campers, as such. But I am really vigorously opposed to the idea that people should act in a greedy/selfish/self-centred way and deny our realm repops that are as short as possible.

Hope this makes sense and explains the reason behind my belief that the ethical change we have seen post-ToA (respect the encounter, not the camper) is actually a good thing.

 

[Red HATred]

Boe !!!

scared ya, didn't i marc

 

[pbaz]

Boe !!!

scared ya, didn't i marc

You successfully cast your Summon Ironheart! :worthy:

 

[Red HATred]

You successfully cast your Summon Ironheart! :worthy:

i loved Falcor in

Never ending story 1
Never ending story 2

 

[Kagato]

The game evolves (or rots in many views) yet the whines all stay the same, just the subject that changes.

DF multiplied exp death whining

SI brought us Sidi whining

ToA brought us Artifact whining

Arn't you all excited at what new whines Catacombs will bring?

I

 

[Moona]

The game evolves (or rots in many views) yet the whines all stay the same, just the subject that changes.

DF multiplied exp death whining

SI brought us Sidi whining

ToA brought us Artifact whining

Arn't you all excited at what new whines Catacombs will bring?

I