Would you group a hunter...

[Gustav]

just out of curiosity, if I respecced my ML to battlemaster and RAs to PD4 Det4 Mop3 (ie. melee heavy) would you group a hunter? A fully buffed pet, grapple, bodyguard, high melee DPS, bow interrupt for starters. Just a thought and I do expect loads of flames....but its just a question to see if people think its a viable thing. It wont cost more than 10p to try for a few days and then respec back.

 

[Gustav]

just to clarify...i mean group as in a FG set up...not a duo-trio-5 man stealther zerg.

 

[Brite]

no.

 

[Zedenz]

The roll you would fill, is filled more effectivly by other classes.

Hunter defence is shite at the end of the day too

 

[Tizu]

Try and see... It could work you never know

 

[Gustav]

would the utility of a pet and ranged attack be enough to balance that survivability factor? all i see the role being is a grapple and bg bot with interrupt ability.

 

[Z^^]

tryed this once with a scout in an alb group worked but not the best
its like you said you can interrupt from afar and the best thing is you can shoot threw bg with your bow if you get 4xbow something you can do nice critshots when tanks are bged.

 

[pjuppe]

could work actually. pet for interruptions and the bow if you get grappled =D

 

[Leel]

NP tried with fatbelly, but that was with unnerfed shade form from som, so they thought it was fastbelly (his savage) and grappled him, then he could fire arrows into casters unhindered:-p When they learnt though, they quickly hunted him down and killed him (or so rvn said I think). They have fatbelly in some of the groups they run in the np warrior movie.

 

[Foadon]

no shield = no slam = no guard (altho thats become mostly obsolete, but defensive part), u cant fire bow while Bging, itll cancel out, so the only thing that will be good is that u can fire bow when theres noone attacking your BG target, but other then that, it wont work that well, playstyle based, since ull practically be doing the same thing over and over, just standing there, but some like that

 

[belxavier]

rather play my thane as a bger at rr4 than a high rr gimped bg hunter who gonna get 2 shot and cant do much

sure higher dps than most shield tanks but then ur useing 2h and swinging once a year with relatively low weaponskill (skaldesque but without the dd's :>)

imho Bg is gonna be relatively useless if the 'bger' is easier to kill than the caster/healer he protecting :>

 

[Xajorkith]

I'm an R6 ML10 hunter and have run with a FG many times. To be honest I felt like a spare part.

Bow
By the time I actually managed to draw the bow (4.5 speed Fools, with 260 quick and 10% speed) I was already interrupted or my target was killed by a Runemaster / Spirtmaster. They liked me for taking tower doors down but now most towers are level 10 I can't even do that.

Mele,
"Having poor defence" is really a poor excuse, they have almost the same defence as Zerkers and Savages, and if you're part of an assist train with 50 spear and a 5 sec rear stun then you can do well. ES, IP, DET, Toughness, FZ and PS gives some defence!
However they just can't dish out anywhere near the damage. Also Mele groups tend not to be popular anymore.

Pet
The pet just gets mezzed, rooted or blown to smitherins, it's not too bad if it is fully buffed. In most cases I'd loose it somewhere in a battle, I'd be in my own world fighting only to find I'm all of a sudden now dealing with the 5 purple con guards that the wolf picked up. The enemy tends to be out of range too and I’ve got to walk forward to sic the wolf…..

So I was very disappointed I realised why Hunters were not invited to FG set ups.... but then in a couple of fights I completely turned it....

Stealth
When your FG encounters a second group you immediately stealth and peal away from your group (avoid AE CC), normally Clerics / Bards will stay well away at the back out of range of casters, enemy casters try to prevent tanks getting through. Then you’d head straight for the Cleric/s Bard, get close and behind, wolf on one, FZ the second one + rapid fire him down... both are now well interrupted and will take a few seconds to sort themselves out which is normally enough time for your group to get the upper hand.

Ok it goes wrong 8 times out of 10, normally because your group is one man down while your taking what seems like an eon to get to the bards etc, or the enemy are on vent and scream to high heaven and your nuked to death... and of course you out of range for heals!

My Hunter is my main, and I really can’t see why, other than sympathy, I get invited to roaming groups! Siege groups is a different thing entirely.

I’m also thinking of completely changing my setup to be more attractive to groups so would be interested in opinions too.

 

[Jeriraa]

"Having poor defence" is really a poor excuse, they have almost the same defence as Zerkers and Savages

They have 360° Evade 6 or whatever Zerkers get and they can spec parry?

Excuse me but THAT was the most stupid thing I ever read on FH.

 

[Xajorkith]

Then you haven't been on FH very long.

I didn’t say the hunter had better defence, I didn’t say they had equal defence. You see I used the word "almost", and that word is very important in the sentence. In the grand scheme of things how much different is Evade 3 v (360) Advanced Evade 5?

Hunter has SPEC AF I have around 100 AF more than a Zerk/Savage, Forceful, Zephyr, Phase Shift, Toughness, Physical Defence, Det, Entwining Snakes, + Pet and bow for interrupt. They have the same armour as Savages and Zerkers. They also have the best defence of all Stealth.
Now tell me this how the heck Parry and Evade helps you out when you're getting nuked dick wad? Phase Shift will certainly save my ass, what will save the Zerkers ass? I was also referring to an assist train, where the Hunter assists another char, and not being the MA.

If you want to flame people at least TRY to put a convincing argument and TRY to put it forward in a constructive friendly manner otherwise you just come off looking like a complete tit.

 

[charmangle]

Well it has worked hasnt it ?

Seen it it some film I think somewhere. 1 or 2 hunters actually...

The pet interrupt, the spear for tanktrain and bow for caster/grapple.

Id try you out if I could mate!

But Id say you would prolly need a set group to try it and make it work before people gets openminded enough to try it out on a random bases!

/Charmangle

 

[Foadon]

Then you haven't been on FH very long.

I didn’t say the hunter had better defence, I didn’t say they had equal defence. You see I used the word "almost", and that word is very important in the sentence. In the grand scheme of things how much different is Evade 3 v (360) Advanced Evade 5?

Hunter has SPEC AF I have around 100 AF more than a Zerk/Savage, Forceful, Zephyr, Phase Shift, Toughness, Physical Defence, Det, Entwining Snakes, + Pet and bow for interrupt. They have the same armour as Savages and Zerkers. They also have the best defence of all Stealth.
Now tell me this how the heck Parry and Evade helps you out when you're getting nuked dick wad? Phase Shift will certainly save my ass, what will save the Zerkers ass? I was also referring to an assist train, where the Hunter assists another char, and not being the MA.

If you want to flame people at least TRY to put a convincing argument and TRY to put it forward in a constructive friendly manner otherwise you just come off looking like a complete tit.

u have FZ and PS? then u dont have BG moron, and 100 AF = nothing, savage has superior evade to a hunter, should have more hp, does more dmg, can generally do alot more defensively then a hunter, and afaik, u cant stealth and use BG at same time
your whole argument stands on an ML path that has nothing to do with this thread, as u need BG and grapple, pls read else shut it

 

[Zedenz]

Then you haven't been on FH very long.

I didn’t say the hunter had better defence, I didn’t say they had equal defence. You see I used the word "almost", and that word is very important in the sentence. In the grand scheme of things how much different is Evade 3 v (360) Advanced Evade 5?

Hunter has SPEC AF I have around 100 AF more than a Zerk/Savage, Forceful, Zephyr, Phase Shift, Toughness, Physical Defence, Det, Entwining Snakes, + Pet and bow for interrupt. They have the same armour as Savages and Zerkers. They also have the best defence of all Stealth.
Now tell me this how the heck Parry and Evade helps you out when you're getting nuked dick wad? Phase Shift will certainly save my ass, what will save the Zerkers ass? I was also referring to an assist train, where the Hunter assists another char, and not being the MA.

If you want to flame people at least TRY to put a convincing argument and TRY to put it forward in a constructive friendly manner otherwise you just come off looking like a complete tit.

lol

Hunters have the worst defence of all stealthers by a marahton

 

[Xajorkith]

u have FZ and PS? then u dont have BG moron, and 100 AF = nothing, savage has superior evade to a hunter, should have more hp, does more dmg, can generally do alot more defensively then a hunter, and afaik, u cant stealth and use BG at same time
your whole argument stands on an ML path that has nothing to do with this thread, as u need BG and grapple, pls read else shut it

The thread is about viability of grouping a hunter, BM or Soj is largely irrelevant due to the short comings of the hunter. I replied back to that after all I spend 90% of my time as a hunter in a FG.

100 AF is 10% less damage taken in mele.
Evade 5 is 10% more evade than evade 3.
Savage and Hunter if both same race have "Similar" hit points as neither race get points in Con.
I was talking defence not offence, I already said (if you read the post) that hunters could never out damage a Zerker or Savage, well not in mele anyway.
Generally more defensive you say? What a Savage and Zerker makes up im mele defence a Hunter makes up in ranged defence… after all he can interrupt upto 2188 range and if bow specced high enough, can choose to interrupt and NOT be interrupted himself…. He also has a pet that can interrupt… interrupt is a far far far a superior defence than 10% evade ….

Hunters do have the worst defence of all stealthers, I didn’t dispute that, we are talking FG fighting….

Nice to see Prydwen Mids so unfriendly.... feck me for replying.

 

[xomer]

Imo this can work only in duo or trio .. with a caster and cleric grouped like Piffu ( scout) ..

 

[Foadon]

just out of curiosity, if I respecced my ML to battlemaster and RAs to PD4 Det4 Mop3 (ie. melee heavy) would you group a hunter? A fully buffed pet, grapple, bodyguard, high melee DPS, bow interrupt for starters. Just a thought and I do expect loads of flames....but its just a question to see if people think its a viable thing. It wont cost more than 10p to try for a few days and then respec back.

so this thread isnt about grouping a BM hunter? what grade do they teach reading again?
and maybe someone hasnt told u, but savage has this thing called temp buffs, giving extra parry and evade, and 100 AF is 10% less dmg taken? thats complete utter bullshit, where are calculations on that?
and while i havent played a savage, i think they get more hp then hunter from their class, unless hunter has higher hp then the rogue table

 

[Xajorkith]

so this thread isnt about grouping a BM hunter? what grade do they teach reading again?

It's about two things. Will "BG" increase "hunter groupability". I know little on BM/BG so didn't reply on that aspect, I do know about Hunter Groupability so I replied on that aspect, after all most had replied on BM aspect.

In summary BG won’t increase ones groupability because he has too many other failings.

You’re correct I don't know what grade they teach reading, I left school many years ago, when you get to the grade let me know.

and maybe someone hasnt told u, but savage has this thing called temp buffs, giving extra parry and evade,

Like you said "temp". And so what, I have already said many times, that melee defence is one thing, but caster defence is another... can a savage interrupt the caster nuking him?

and 100 AF is 10% less dmg taken? thats complete utter bullshit, where are calculations on that?

Oh grow up, read any Hunter/Ranger board and see for your self. 10% AF = 1% damage reduction (does not work like abs though).

and while i havent played a savage, i think they get more hp then hunter from their class, unless hunter has higher hp then the rogue table

Nice to see you "thinking" at last, you haven't shown that before.
As a hunter and savage have exactly the same con it all boils down to how many HP per con, the hunter gets 3.6 I don't know what a Savage gets. But I assumed a Light Tank and Rogue would not be too far apart. This is why I used the word "similar", in fact just for you I even put it in speech marks...


So why you so rude? You have problems mate go and see your doctor.

 

[pip]

Get baggarts bow lvl 10 /use2 bg on ya all the pbaoe folks arround ya have a ball

 

[Xajorkith]

just out of curiosity, if I respecced my ML to battlemaster and RAs to PD4 Det4 Mop3 (ie. melee heavy) would you group a hunter? A fully buffed pet, grapple, bodyguard, high melee DPS, bow interrupt for starters. Just a thought and I do expect loads of flames....but its just a question to see if people think its a viable thing. It wont cost more than 10p to try for a few days and then respec back.

You've probably already seen it but there was this post on Critshot...

http://www.critshot.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11550

 

[Zedenz]

The thread is about viability of grouping a hunter, BM or Soj is largely irrelevant due to the short comings of the hunter. I replied back to that after all I spend 90% of my time as a hunter in a FG.

100 AF is 10% less damage taken in mele.
Evade 5 is 10% more evade than evade 3.

Difference being that zerker and savage get 360 evade, in a fg you don't stand there toe to toe, so a hunter would never evade anyway.

Savage and Hunter if both same race have "Similar" hit points as neither race get points in Con.
I was talking defence not offence, I already said (if you read the post) that hunters could never out damage a Zerker or Savage, well not in mele anyway.
Generally more defensive you say? What a Savage and Zerker makes up im mele defence a Hunter makes up in ranged defence…

A hunter has no ranged defence so not quite sure how your argument works, heh it's not as if they can spec shield!

Hunters do have the worst defence of all stealthers, I didn’t dispute that, we are talking FG fighting….

Odd...previously you said

They have the same armour as Savages and Zerkers. They also have the best defence of all Stealth.

Nice to see Prydwen Mids so unfriendly.... feck me for replying.

Foaden wasn't being rude though, just telling you that you're cleary a sandwhich short of a picnic. Talk to the hunters who have played it to the maximum potential, the likes of Belxavier, Snornig and Kipu..even they would tell you that a hunter fills no role better then another class in an opted battle.

 

[Keld]

Not taking sides, just bit bored :x

Difference being that zerker and savage get 360 evade, in a fg you don't stand there toe to toe, so a hunter would never evade anyway.

Train on you? /face

Odd...previously you said

They have the same armour as Savages and Zerkers. They also have the best defence of all Stealth.

I'm guessing he missed out a comma and therefore you read it wrong... "They also have the best defence of all, Stealth."

 

[Foadon]

90% of all his strong points come from the fact that either hunter has FZ/etc, and the other that it can shoot bow to interrupt or whatever
both these points are IRRELEVANT, since the point of this post is clearly if a hunter takes on the task of a BODYGUARD, the threadstarter specifically said this, and if u can think for 1 second, ud know a hunter wouldnt get in a seriously formed group ( = not pickup LFG M8S group ) since the spot of a BGer would be used by a BGer leaving him no spot if he isnt one.
the second point of the ability to interrupt when someone is range nuking/whatever him is also irrelevant, since u cant BG and shoot, its been tried, and BG doesnt work if the BGer does heals/ranged dmg

but trying to save face i guess, he keeps going on about it, while his post is pretty much the most useless one for info for this thread

 

[Xajorkith]

Foaden wasn't being rude though, just telling you that you're cleary a sandwhich short of a picnic. Talk to the hunters who have played it to the maximum potential, the likes of Belxavier, Snornig and Kipu..even they would tell you that a hunter fills no role better then another class in an opted battle.

Show me once where I say otherwise? Now I did say....

My Hunter is my main, and I really can’t see why, other than sympathy, I get invited to roaming groups!
To be honest I felt like a spare part.
I realised why Hunters were not invited to FG set ups.
In summary BG won’t increase a Hunter's groupability because Hunter's have too many other failings.

A hunter has no ranged defence so not quite sure how your argument works, heh it's not as if they can spec shield!

I disagree there...

1. Sureshot (with a fast bow) if specced, to interupt caster / archer (whilst not being interuptable himself, a bit like MoC but no timer)
2. Pet if the attacker is within 1500 loc to interupt caster / archer (with 1.78 pet runs faster to target)
3. Braggart's Bow with AoE /use 2 to interupt multiple casters / archers
4. Phase Shift if Soj

 

[Mavericky]

As others have said, anything a hunter can do, some other class can do better. If you want an interupter, then a bonedancer would be the also be uninterupable, be way better at interupting (bandlord, lifetap) better defence (life tap, heals) and better dps even when interupted. A savage would be a better BG'r with its 360 evade5

I would love hunters to be more groupable (my main is a hunter) but as the game stands, they are below par in groups with better alternatives for whatever is required.

 

[Tir]

I play both classes and even with all the flaws a savage has with ra's etc I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is by far the better group character. H2H speced BM savage v's BM hunter :-

Pro's
Damage +
Hp's + (I reckon about 4-550 hp's withthe same +'s)
Defense+ (evade, parry, melee dps reduction buffs on top of better base rates)
Stoicism
Almost free limitless end (useful for chaining those high end BM styles)
Usful positionals (9 sec stun)
The savage is infinatly easier to SC. Show me a fully capped in everything hunter!

Equal
Rear stun
Armour (no, the spec af buff does not count as your savage can easily have this from an item)
Same (useful) melee RA's

Con's

Hunter has longer range (though with a LOT of flaws easpecially in fg fights)
Hunter has pet (but then mids know all about pets fighting the hibbie zoo - easy to negate)

Now if you switch the hunter to a soj and give it the light tank roll you are then competing with a BM savage and a zerk...compare it to the BL zerk in terms of even interputs and it's chalk and cheese! Your hunter now does have more defense with PS and FZ, but becomes a timer monkey.

I don't think a hunter is utterly useless as a group character, but every role it fits into in the visable world another class can do better...hell, even a sb would dish out more damage and has mez poision and mines and group stealth (much fun!) etc.

 

[ev0_o]

Look guys, Xajor is right, the global population of daoc players is wrong, mmk!