Work Problems

[Darthshearer]

I have been with my present company for two years now, I moved to the company for job security as my old company was slowing down. It was a good move as that company has now gobe bust. It was a very good company but investment stopped and so did the work. I really enjoyed working there. It was a company of only 29 people and I got job satisfaction, worked 8h days, every now and then did some overtime if needed, but generally a very well run company. At the time I had just bought my first house and needed job security hence the reason I left.

Sooooo. The present market conditions are shite. BSF's have been pulled, investment still not coming as well as expected, however the company I am with are global and we have some massive contracts. I was at the company for a month and I realised, for a job satisfaction, stress free life, the company wasnt for me. The management were not upto it and they were off sick and awful lot. New gaffer came in last Jan and got sacked last Nov for basically being a pissed head and a wanker. He was shocking at man management and organisng things. During his reign it wasnt uncommon to work 60-70h weeks due to his poor organising.

Sooooo New gaffer comes in this Jan and its looking to be the same. He is poor at organising himself and I was giving him the doubt and putting it down to the fact that he is under immense pressure to win jobs. There are certain memebers of the team who clearly arent upto scratch and IMO shouldnt have a job. Yet all we hear is "you cant sack someone" The company I work with are huge and therefore dont want bad publicity I dont think. So these people arent helping my boss.

Now, my boss today dumps a load of work on my desk and asked when I could get it done. I told him next week if I was given the chance, however as previously discussed in a meeting im somewhat busy for another dept. His answer, work more hours.

I already work more hours than expected, and normally it wouldnt bother me. yet its starting to do my tits in because the other people dont do the other time and nothing is said to them. We got told that we should do this because of the economy were in and "were all expected to pull out weight"

I am NOT contracted to work overtime nor do I get paid it, so why should I do it? I dont want to let the company down, but its now having an effect on my personal life.

Should I see HR?
MTFU and get on with it?

Ive really had enough and sent my CV out today, I would rather work for a smaller company, work on smaller projects than work for a cock sucking private school boy southern **** to be honest.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Short answer; if you don't get anything for overtime and your contract says X, do NO, NONE overtime.

You're not free labour and they can do sh*t all to fire you on that basis(atleast here).

 

[MYstIC G]

Have a word with the HR department on the sly and drop the words "bullied" and "pressurised" and "unfair" a few times, more so if you have a confidential helpline. They'll probably order him to back away if as you say it's a big no brain company.

 

[SilverHood]

You're obviously getting work assigned because you're one of the few in your team who can deliver. So you just have to to be upfront with your boss. When I was working for my old firm, I got paid a day rate on the assumption that I worked 8 hours a day for my client. I did a few 12 hour shifts when the shit hit the fan, but I told my boss that if they expected me there for 60+ hours a week, I got paid for 60. No go, so I got up and walked away once I'd dealt with critical issues at the end of my 8 hour day.

To quote a mate of mine: "Work is not your friend. They will screw you if they think they can get away with it". And it's true.

I ended up going permanent with the client in the end, now work all sorts of hours, but at least pay is very good and if I do insane hours I'll get paid time off in lieu.

 

[Marc]

Go over his head and make it clear to the HR department that you are all for pulling your weight, but why are you the only one that has to do all this unpaid overtime? Make it clear that you dont shirk work and point to when you were working 60 hrs a week.

 

[Scouse]

Tell him that if he wants you to work more than your contracted hours then he'll have to agree an overtime rate with you.

When he moans (and possibly shouts) smile and say you can't help him. Then work to rule.

And start looking for another job. Right now.

 

[Darthshearer]

Cheers for the advice guys.

I have a note of all my hours over the past year as proof and a note of peoples absences too as it was getting beyond a joke.

I do count myself lucky to have a job and dont shy work away. Thats what I dont want to look at.

You get comments like "Oh half day?" etc when youre leaving at 5:00 - 5:30 and Ive had enough.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

One thing to be careful of is how your contract is worded. Some contracts are worded so that you are expected to work extra hours if the business demands it. I've seen this catch a few people out.

It doesn't sound like a very pleasant place to work but I agree, the job market is still recovering generally.

It would be hard for me to resist people making the part time quips. They'd get something between the eyes like "You can get it done in normal hours if you're not shit". But thats probably not wise

 

[Chilly]

My contract requires me to come in 9-6 but work as much as needed. that means getting out of bed at 3am to fix the machine when it goes titsup, or work all night getting a release out of the door. thats all cool because I knew it when I signed up for it and the company doesnt abuse the system.

 

[Jupitus]

My contract requires me to come in 9-6 but work as much as needed. that means getting out of bed at 3am to fix the machine when it goes titsup, or work all night getting a release out of the door. thats all cool because I knew it when I signed up for it and the company doesnt abuse the system.

Does your manager play it fair and say 'ok, you've done alot of hours this week, it's 2PM on a Friday and quiet so you can bugger off if you're done' ?

 

[Chilly]

basically yeah

 

[Darthshearer]

This is what it says in my employee handbook

Hours of Work (also see Overtime)
Unless otherwise specified in your letter of appointment, a standard working week is 37½ hours, 7½ hours per day, Monday to Friday, with an hour each day for lunch (usually taken between 12 and 2pm). Your hours of work are as stated on your individual Terms and Conditions of Employment but everyone is expected to work the hours required to achieve the objectives for their role. Grades 5-9 are eligible to receive payments for authorised overtime should you exceed a minimum threshold of hours in a working month be exceeded (see Overtime).
From time to time, it may be necessary to revise your hours in order to meet business needs. All Managers will endeavour to give you as much notice as possible if this is required.
Offices are officially open from 9.00 am to 5.30 pm and the “core” office hours are 9.30am to 4.30pm, when everyone should be in work unless otherwise agreed. We recognise that a degree of flexibility in start and finish times can provide significant benefits to staff when planning their travel and domestic arrangements and can provide more flexibility with their work/life balance. Flexibility in start/finish times taking into account core hours is permitted on different days unless it either diversely affects the team being able to deliver to internal or external clients or if it is felt this flexibility is abused.
Under the Working Time Regulations which came into force in October 1998, working time in any 17 week reference period must not exceed an average of 48 hours per week. Employees can opt out of the 48 hour week (either permanently or temporarily) by individual agreement taking the form of a written provision. Working hours are monitored by the Central HR Department and you will be contacted should your hours increase over and above the statutory maximum.

Now, due to the credit crunch, overtime isnt being paid ( I am grade 5). In the last few months Ive been doing min 10h days.

Where do I stand on the above?

 

[dysfunction]

Have a word with the HR department on the sly and drop the words "bullied" and "pressurised" and "unfair" a few times, more so if you have a confidential helpline. They'll probably order him to back away if as you say it's a big no brain company.

Another HR watch word is "Stress" (although thats probably covered by pressurised). Throw that one around and they get all worried!

 

[Jupitus]

Your hours of work are as stated on your individual Terms and Conditions of Employment but everyone is expected to work the hours required to achieve the objectives for their role.

There is the attempted cop out, but that said I doubt that would stand up in a situation where over a long period of time you are being required to exceed the stated contract hours.

Talk to HR with this in your hand and go through it with them... it looks to me like they want to have a fairly flexible and fair approach to people's work hours so they could well be quite sympathetic to your cause.

Question to answer before you do - would you be happy if they were asking you to work these hours but you were being paid overtime for it, or would you simply rather not have to work these hours on an ongoing basis?

 

[dysfunction]

This is what it says in my employee handbook


Now, due to the credit crunch, overtime isnt being paid ( I am grade 5). In the last few months Ive been doing min 10h days.

Where do I stand on the above?

Well if you exceed the 48hrs work time regulations you could get them on that!
Otherwise your contract allows them to "make" you work as much overtime as is necessary...

 

[Darthshearer]

I am not bothered about doing longer hours if

1) They are not down to management and othere poeple in the team being poorly organised.

2) There was some flexiability on their part, i.e if I work one day at 10h I get off a couple of hours another day without the "Oh part time etc" bollocks.

3) its not a great deal of overtime ALL the time.,

Money isnt everything to me. I prefer to have a work / life balance. Thats what i am not getting at the moment.

 

[Chilly]

Does your contract specify any overtime thresholds? If so, they cant just say "due to the credit crunch we're not paying it" - that's a violation of agreed terms. Just like they cant reduce your pay arbitrarily.

 

[Darthshearer]

We got an email some time saying they couldnt pay OT due to the econmy, we didnt sign anything though.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Atleast around here they can't do that. They can say, but they still have an obligation to pay.

Even if the place burned down, the CEO croaked and wild dogs ripped all your computers up, you'd still get paid.

Or, no overtime. Right on the clock 8h and done.

 

[Darthshearer]

Atleast around here they can't do that. They can say, but they still have an obligation to pay.

Even if the place burned down, the CEO croaked and wild dogs ripped all your computers up, you'd still get paid.

Or, no overtime. Right on the clock 8h and done.

:lol:

 

[DaGaffer]

This is what it says in my employee handbook


Now, due to the credit crunch, overtime isnt being paid ( I am grade 5). In the last few months Ive been doing min 10h days.

Where do I stand on the above?

As Chilly says, if your contract days you get paid overtime in grade, you get paid, unless you agree to change your conditions of employment. I'm guessing they're just playing the fear card to get around fulfilling their HR obligations properly.

There is the attempted cop out, but that said I doubt that would stand up in a situation where over a long period of time you are being required to exceed the stated contract hours.

Sadly in the UK this simply isn't the case; there are lots of companies that expect you to do unpaid overtime all the time, particularly at managerial level. I've worked at one or two "presenteeist" companies in my time and this sounds like one (the "half day" jibe rings a lot of bells).

Well if you exceed the 48hrs work time regulations you could get them on that!
Otherwise your contract allows them to "make" you work as much overtime as is necessary...

Not in the UK it doesn't. The 48 hour thing is so lax as to be meaningless, e.g.

We got an email some time saying they couldnt pay OT due to the econmy, we didnt sign anything though.

What was the wording? Pay overtime? Or give overtime?

Atleast around here they can't do that. They can say, but they still have an obligation to pay.

Even if the place burned down, the CEO croaked and wild dogs ripped all your computers up, you'd still get paid.

Or, no overtime. Right on the clock 8h and done.

Scandinavians are lazy ***** so what works up there in the dark doesn't cut much ice in Blighty.

 

[Darthshearer]

I cant remeber the wording Gaffer, ill dig it out.

I have just had it with this place and the shite management. Time to move on.

 

[TdC]

what do you do Darthy? I have an Operations Engineer job opening in Amsterdam as we speak mate

 

[Darthshearer]

Structural Technician mate.

Would love to come work in the Netherlands man, its an amazing country.

 

[TdC]

hmm then I fear my job isn't for you. still, all the best and I would say if you do get a chance to be an expat for a while it may be a fun experience for you

 

[Pfy]

This is why I stopped workin in an office. It's always the same old crap imho.

I think it's a case of if you don't like it then you'll have to move on. Probably to somewhere that is just the same.

I work set hours each week and unless theres a serious problem always leave work on time and more often than not early.

I think the only way to avoid this stuff is to move away from office based work.

 

[Pfy]

On a side note, what exactly does a structural technician do?

 

[Darthshearer]

Construction I am afraid doesnt work like a normal office. So some OT is expected.

A Structural Tech, designes and details structures.

 

[rynnor]

Your getting shafted for being too reliable - just get unreliable - lots of sick time etc. - hell you could even state stress as your illness on a few self cert slips - that would get a reaction from hr...

 

[Ch3tan]

Darth, it sounds like your line manager relies on you, he is so unorganised and the rest of the team are poor. Rather than using any form of perfromance management to improve things, he is hoping you'll just carry on carrying the burden.

Ask for a meeting with him and any HR you have, make it clear than as far as you are concerned you are not happy for things to continue as they are, and that you are thinking of leaving because of the situation with overtime and workload. If he has any common sense at all, he'll fix up rather than lose someone who is actually doing the job. In the longterm though, it does sound like getting a new job is the answer.